2025 Hall of Fame Ballot

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by pilight

Like I said, you are arbitrarily picking which rules are acceptable to break and which ones are not. It's not that "rule breakers lack integrity & character and don't deserved to be honored as the best the game produced." It's that players who you believe did something you disapprove of should be barred. It's an entirely subjective criteria and not a good one.

No its not. You choose to look at it as arbitrary. I look at it as reasonable. You want to let in anyone no matter what they do. That reasonable? Hey!, let's put in anyone who ever played the game. I mean Ozzie Smith has 28 career HR's. So anyone who reaches 28 homers should get in, correct? Or else I'm arbitrary? Mariano Rivera has only 82 wins. If he is in, I gotta put every pitcher in w/82 right? You know, for the sake of not being "arbitrary". Right? Or else I'm picking and choosing which stats should get in. That's your position right? Or is that unreasonable?

I'm not being arbitrary. I and the HOF voters have a set standard in their minds & they measure candidates on that standard. We use our power of reason to judge whose "record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played" merits entrance to the Hall. The whole picture. Reason.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Going by that there's probably a few hall of famers that should be kicked out of the hall.

This is the expected response. Mickey Mantle making a career out of knocking salesmen from Minnesota off of their bar stools...Ty Cobb doing Ty Cobb things.

Read Ball Four if you want to hear salacious stories about baseball players from the 60's and 70's. Some of them are probably true.

As Cobra Mgr correctly stated...we can't do anything about past decisions. Phil Rizzuto is still going to be in the HoF.

[monkeyman576]

As far as I'm concerned keeping out roiders and Rose out of the hall is stupid when MLB cares more about money than anything involving integrity. Players aren't saints.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

This is the expected response. Mickey Mantle making a career out of knocking salesmen from Minnesota off of their bar stools...Ty Cobb doing Ty Cobb things.

Read Ball Four if you want to hear salacious stories about baseball players from the 60's and 70's. Some of them are probably true.

As Cobra Mgr correctly stated...we can't do anything about past decisions. Phil Rizzuto is still going to be in the HoF.

You wanna take Mantle out for bad behaviour, how bout Babe Ruth and probably most of the hall. A lot of the stuff about Cobb came from Al Stump. Who at times basically made stuff up.

You wanna draw a line and allow only non cheaters across it in the future..
That sounds great if it were possible. I just don't think it is.
If the MLB didn't punish a player then isn't a little late to punish them after their career?
How bout a player that cheats for a season but then puts up hall of fame numbers for the rest of his career?
Do we neglect his later years? Even if he served a punishment from MLB?
How bout the players that were punished or fined? Do we punish them again?
Where does it stop?
Should we take a championship away from a cheater's team?
I am more bothered by the Astros non punishment than i am over Bonds or Clemens getting in the Hall.

[mytreds]

A lot about Ty Cobb is false information. He had two biographers slander him. I’d be great if people actually do their homework and stop perpetuating falsehoods.

[pilight]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

No its not. You choose to look at it as arbitrary. I look at it as reasonable. You want to let in anyone no matter what they do. That reasonable? Hey!, let's put in anyone who ever played the game. I mean Ozzie Smith has 28 career HR's. So anyone who reaches 28 homers should get in, correct? Or else I'm arbitrary? Mariano Rivera has only 82 wins. If he is in, I gotta put every pitcher in w/82 right? You know, for the sake of not being "arbitrary". Right? Or else I'm picking and choosing which stats should get in. That's your position right? Or is that unreasonable?

I'm not being arbitrary. I and the HOF voters have a set standard in their minds & they measure candidates on that standard. We use our power of reason to judge whose "record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played" merits entrance to the Hall. The whole picture. Reason.

Beat up that straw man! Beat him up good!

The HOF voters haven't set any kind of consistent standard. They let in cheaters and PED users if they're good interviews and play in the right markets. Is that the standard you're defending?

Your standard is entirely arbitrary. You decry "rule breakers", but only if they're certain rules and not others. Integrity and character aren't affected by some rule breaking but are by others, according to you.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by pilight

Beat up that straw man! Beat him up good!

The HOF voters haven't set any kind of consistent standard. They let in cheaters and PED users if they're good interviews and play in the right markets. Is that the standard you're defending?

Your standard is entirely arbitrary. You decry "rule breakers", but only if they're certain rules and not others. Integrity and character aren't affected by some rule breaking but are by others, according to you.

Excuse me. I should have typed "HOF voters who exclude PED users" instead of just HOF voters. Other than that, my point still stands.

You are 1) repeating he same weak argument as if it becomes stronger w/repetition. And I'm not going to go around in circles with you. And 2) You are making an assumption that I agreed on the ones who snuck in & we know abused like Big Poppi. You are also making the same assumption about all voters. I was against his inclusion. Anyone that we know, emphasis, KNOW used PED's I would not vote in. No matter how much I liked them. That's not arbitrary. That is strict adherence to a standard.

Your beef about changing the goal posts should be directed to the ones that voted in Poppi & Pudge w/o putting in Bonds & Clemens. I don't agree w/it anymore than you do. And their hypocrisy is no excuse for me to fall in line right behind them. I and many HOF voters have our line that we won't cross.

[CONN CHRIS]

Good class but man, Someone left Ichiro off their ballot while three thought a vote for Granderson made sense.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Good class but man, Someone left Ichiro off their ballot while three thought a vote for Granderson made sense.

I continue to say Mariano Rivera being the 1st unanimous inductee is an embarrassment to the baseball writer profession. I have no problem Rivera being on every ballot. I have a problem w/him being the first. A short relief pitcher at that. Not to be insulting, but the baseball equivalent of a placekicker.

160 did not vote for Jackie Robinson
45 did not vote for Frank Robinson
23 did not vote for Musial or Mays
19 did not vote for Ted Williams
16 did not vote for Bench
15 did not vote for Randy Johnson
13 did not vote for Gwynn
12 did not vote for Chipper
11 did not vote for Ruth or Honus
10 did not vote for Feller
9 did not vote for Aaron
8 did not vote for Ripken
5 did not vote for Ryan
4 did not vote for Cobb
3 did not vote for Griffey Jr
1 did not vote for Jeter

There isn't any writer in the history of the sport that could stand up & make an argument for any of the above to not be in Cooperstown and not end up in padded room afterward.

[David Watts]

I want cheaters in.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Good class but man, Someone left Ichiro off their ballot while three thought a vote for Granderson made sense.

Token protests ("Mariano being unanimous was a joke! Let's not do that again!") and shoutouts ("Grandy ain't getting in, but let's give him a vote for old-times' sake") have gone on forever. No need to kvetch about them.

It's about electing the right people, not getting hundreds of voters to vote in lockstep. Deserving people got in, undeserving people got dropped. Job well done.

(I'm a lot more annoyed at people thinking that Francisco "K-Rud" Rodriguez deserves election for getting in brawls in the family room and blowing save after save…but I am a Mets fan.)

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Token protests ("Mariano being unanimous was a joke! Let's not do that again!") and shoutouts ("Grandy ain't getting in, but let's give him a vote for old-times' sake") have gone on forever. No need to kvetch about them.

It's about electing the right people, not getting hundreds of voters to vote in lockstep. Deserving people got in, undeserving people got dropped. Job well done.

(I'm a lot more annoyed at people thinking that Francisco "K-Rud" Rodriguez deserves election for getting in brawls in the family room and blowing save after save…but I am a Mets fan.)

Just an old man shaking his fist at the clouds. :-)

I loved Grandy too. I can't imagine a rationale for leaving Ichiro off of a ballot. I rant.

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I want cheaters in.

Me too. The hall is already chock full of them. Why single anyone out - all part of the story.

[pilight]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I want cheaters in.

Plenty of cheaters are in. Some people just want particular kinds of cheaters kept out.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Just an old man shaking his fist at the clouds. :-)

I'm probably younger than you, Gramps. As go-to cheap insults go, that's rather lame.

I loved Grandy too. I can't imagine a rationale for leaving Ichiro off of a ballot. I rant.

I'm not saying I approve. I'm just saying this happens and I can't see a reason to burst a blood vessel over it. Namaste. Unclench. (JMO.)

[CONN CHRIS]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

I'm probably younger than you, Gramps. As go-to cheap insults go, that's rather lame.



I'm not saying I approve. I'm just saying this happens and I can't see a reason to burst a blood vessel over it. Namaste. Unclench. (JMO.)

I was referring to me as the old man. :-) Excuse my imprecise use of the language.