ZR, EFF or RNG

[Skevich]

Since OOTP doesn't use Outs Above Average, what the is the hierarchy of
ZR, EFF and RNG?

[CWess12]

Pretty much the order you listed them in. Zone rating basically gives a +/- value for each play a player makes or doesn't make that depends heavily on the location of the batted ball. Essentially, more difficult plays with balls hit farther away from a player's typical positioning gives you a higher positive value. Easy plays, or balls hit right at a player, give a lower positive value if the play is made and larger negative value if the play isn't made. The cumulative sum of every single play then gives you Zone Rating.

The game groups these plays/batted balls by chance: routine (~95% success rate), likely(~75%), even (50%), unlikely(~25%) and remote (<10%), where routine plays give the smallest bonus for being made, and the largest penalty when they aren't made, and remote being the highest bonus and lowest penalty. You can set up a view in the fielding stats tab that basically shows you what percentage of each of these your player makes and also the total number of chances they have at each type of batted ball event.

Efficiency basically gives you a boiled down percentage of how efficient a player is at converting outs relative to league average. So 1.000 is even with the league average, 1.050 is 5% better than league average and .950 is 5% worse.

The Range stat from my understanding is basically just a representation of how many batted ball events/chances a player is likely to experience. I don't necessarily understand how the number is derived, but the higher the number the more balls a player is having hit towards them. I don't think it helps in your evaluation of any given player's defensive ability.

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[jksander]

Originally Posted by CWess12

Pretty much the order you listed them in. Zone rating basically gives a +/- value for each play a player makes or doesn't make that depends heavily on the location of the batted ball. Essentially, more difficult plays with balls hit farther away from a player's typical positioning gives you a higher positive value. Easy plays, or balls hit right at a player, give a lower positive value if the play is made and larger negative value if the play isn't made. The cumulative sum of every single play then gives you Zone Rating.

The game groups these plays/batted balls by chance: routine (~95% success rate), likely(~75%), even (50%), unlikely(~25%) and remote (<10%), where routine plays give the smallest bonus for being made, and the largest penalty when they aren't made, and remote being the highest bonus and lowest penalty. You can set up a view in the fielding stats tab that basically shows you what percentage of each of these your player makes and also the total number of chances they have at each type of batted ball event.

Efficiency basically gives you a boiled down percentage of how efficient a player is at converting outs relative to league average. So 1.000 is even with the league average, 1.050 is 5% better than league average and .950 is 5% worse.

The Range stat from my understanding is basically just a representation of how many batted ball events/chances a player is likely to experience. I don't necessarily understand how the number is derived, but the higher the number the more balls a player is having hit towards them. I don't think it helps in your evaluation of any given player's defensive ability.

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This was incredibly helpful ... I'd never really known how to evaluate the efficiency rating, so I've always put most of my emphasis on their zone rating.

[Skevich]

Thank you that was very helpful.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by CWess12

Pretty much the order you listed them in. Zone rating basically gives a +/- value for each play a player makes or doesn't make that depends heavily on the location of the batted ball. Essentially, more difficult plays with balls hit farther away from a player's typical positioning gives you a higher positive value. Easy plays, or balls hit right at a player, give a lower positive value if the play is made and larger negative value if the play isn't made. The cumulative sum of every single play then gives you Zone Rating.

The game groups these plays/batted balls by chance: routine (~95% success rate), likely(~75%), even (50%), unlikely(~25%) and remote (<10%), where routine plays give the smallest bonus for being made, and the largest penalty when they aren't made, and remote being the highest bonus and lowest penalty. You can set up a view in the fielding stats tab that basically shows you what percentage of each of these your player makes and also the total number of chances they have at each type of batted ball event.

Efficiency basically gives you a boiled down percentage of how efficient a player is at converting outs relative to league average. So 1.000 is even with the league average, 1.050 is 5% better than league average and .950 is 5% worse.

The Range stat from my understanding is basically just a representation of how many batted ball events/chances a player is likely to experience. I don't necessarily understand how the number is derived, but the higher the number the more balls a player is having hit towards them. I don't think it helps in your evaluation of any given player's defensive ability.

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Thanks for posting, very helpful.

[CWess12]

Here are the stat views I mentioned. the BIZ-R/L/E/U/Z% corresponds to percent of routine (BIZ-R), likely (BIZ-L), even (BIZ-E), unlikely (BIZ-U), and remote (BIZ-Z) batted balls the player converts to out. The other view gives you the total number of balls the player encountered at each difficulty (BIZ-R/L/E/U/Z) and the total number of those plays they made successfully (BIZ-R/L/E/U/Zm), which is used for the percent calculations.

I've included two very different caliber of SS defenders for comparison. Kondwani is one of the best in the league and Abrams is one of the worst defensively.

[Garlon]

For fielding metrics when comparing two players at a position in a given season their EFF is more revealing than ZR. The player with the better Eff (efficiency) is turning more opportunities into outs. With ZR it is situational and can depend on base-out situation and maybe even the difficulty of the play.

You can calculate your own Outs Above Average from the EFF.

For outfielders this would be PO - (PO/EFF) = Outs Above Average

For example, in a game that I started today Willie Mays in 1960 made 319 PO with a 1.080 EFF. We just need to ask the question, 319 is 108% of what number and then subtract it to get Outs Above Average.

319 - (319/1.080) = 319 - 295.4 = 23.6 Outs Above Average for Mays on the season.

He had a 17.9 ZR. So basically, each Out Above Average for him was worth 17.9/23.6 = 0 .76 Defensive Runs Saved based on the fielding situations.

It is possible another outfielder could also have 23 or 24 Outs Above Average and end up with more or less than 17.9 ZR for the season because the situations were different.


For 2B/3B/SS you do the same process but use Assists. A - (A/EFF) = Outs Above Average

For example, Maury Wills in my game in 1960 had 431 A and a 1.074 EFF.

431 - (431/1.074) = 431 - 401.3 = 29.7 Outs Above Average.

Maury Wills had a 17.2 ZR for the season.

For Maury Wills, these Outs Above Average were worth 17.2/29.7 = 0.58 Defensive Runs Saved based on the fielding situations.


I think that outfielder outs above average are generally worth more than infield plays because bad plays in the outfield can end up as extra bases.


As for RNG, this is just Range Factor, which is (PO + A) per 9 innings. This is not a useful metric for evaluating anything because batted ball opportunities are not the same for all players at a position in a league.


In terms of evaluating the player ratings for defensive ability, the overall Position Ratings are really more of a composite estimate. You actually need to look at the Defensive Ratings to make a better analysis.

For example, outfielders have their Outfield Range/Outfield Error/OutfieldArm ratings weighted into their composite positional rating at LF or CF or RF. However, outfielders do not make that many errors in a season, nor do they have a significant number of assists, but they do make hundreds of PO. Therefore, the Outfield Range rating of an outfielder is way more valuable than Error or Arm because that is what is going to generate more Outs Above Average.

Infielders can generate significant Outs Above Average with preventing Errors or by having good Range. As you go further back into baseball history, fielding percentages were lower, which means the SS Error rating is going to be worth more in 1901 than it is worth in 2001.

However, for SS you are still going to want great Range and great Arm. For 2B, Range is important, but Arm not as much. For 3B, Arm is more important than Range.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by CWess12

Pretty much the order you listed them in. Zone rating basically gives a +/- value for each play a player makes or doesn't make that depends heavily on the location of the batted ball. Essentially, more difficult plays with balls hit farther away from a player's typical positioning gives you a higher positive value. Easy plays, or balls hit right at a player, give a lower positive value if the play is made and larger negative value if the play isn't made. The cumulative sum of every single play then gives you Zone Rating.

The game groups these plays/batted balls by chance: routine (~95% success rate), likely(~75%), even (50%), unlikely(~25%) and remote (<10%), where routine plays give the smallest bonus for being made, and the largest penalty when they aren't made, and remote being the highest bonus and lowest penalty. You can set up a view in the fielding stats tab that basically shows you what percentage of each of these your player makes and also the total number of chances they have at each type of batted ball event.

Efficiency basically gives you a boiled down percentage of how efficient a player is at converting outs relative to league average. So 1.000 is even with the league average, 1.050 is 5% better than league average and .950 is 5% worse.

The Range stat from my understanding is basically just a representation of how many batted ball events/chances a player is likely to experience. I don't necessarily understand how the number is derived, but the higher the number the more balls a player is having hit towards them. I don't think it helps in your evaluation of any given player's defensive ability.

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The way you explained it was great. Would be nice if people could break it down like you did so that people who discuss it on TV or during games could intelligently explain what they mean. Thank you

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by Garlon

For fielding metrics when comparing two players at a position in a given season their EFF is more revealing than ZR. The player with the better Eff (efficiency) is turning more opportunities into outs. With ZR it is situational and can depend on base-out situation and maybe even the difficulty of the play.

You can calculate your own Outs Above Average from the EFF.

For outfielders this would be PO - (PO/EFF) = Outs Above Average

For example, in a game that I started today Willie Mays in 1960 made 319 PO with a 1.080 EFF. We just need to ask the question, 319 is 108% of what number and then subtract it to get Outs Above Average.

319 - (319/1.080) = 319 - 295.4 = 23.6 Outs Above Average for Mays on the season.

He had a 17.9 ZR. So basically, each Out Above Average for him was worth 17.9/23.6 = 0 .76 Defensive Runs Saved based on the fielding situations.

It is possible another outfielder could also have 23 or 24 Outs Above Average and end up with more or less than 17.9 ZR for the season because the situations were different.


For 2B/3B/SS you do the same process but use Assists. A - (A/EFF) = Outs Above Average

For example, Maury Wills in my game in 1960 had 431 A and a 1.074 EFF.

431 - (431/1.074) = 431 - 401.3 = 29.7 Outs Above Average.

Maury Wills had a 17.2 ZR for the season.

For Maury Wills, these Outs Above Average were worth 17.2/29.7 = 0.58 Defensive Runs Saved based on the fielding situations.


I think that outfielder outs above average are generally worth more than infield plays because bad plays in the outfield can end up as extra bases.


As for RNG, this is just Range Factor, which is (PO + A) per 9 innings. This is not a useful metric for evaluating anything because batted ball opportunities are not the same for all players at a position in a league.


In terms of evaluating the player ratings for defensive ability, the overall Position Ratings are really more of a composite estimate. You actually need to look at the Defensive Ratings to make a better analysis.

For example, outfielders have their Outfield Range/Outfield Error/OutfieldArm ratings weighted into their composite positional rating at LF or CF or RF. However, outfielders do not make that many errors in a season, nor do they have a significant number of assists, but they do make hundreds of PO. Therefore, the Outfield Range rating of an outfielder is way more valuable than Error or Arm because that is what is going to generate more Outs Above Average.

Infielders can generate significant Outs Above Average with preventing Errors or by having good Range. As you go further back into baseball history, fielding percentages were lower, which means the SS Error rating is going to be worth more in 1901 than it is worth in 2001.

However, for SS you are still going to want great Range and great Arm. For 2B, Range is important, but Arm not as much. For 3B, Arm is more important than Range.

Also thanks for your explainer as well

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Garlon

For fielding metrics when comparing two players at a position in a given season their EFF is more revealing than ZR. The player with the better Eff (efficiency) is turning more opportunities into outs. With ZR it is situational and can depend on base-out situation and maybe even the difficulty of the play.

You can calculate your own Outs Above Average from the EFF.

For outfielders this would be PO - (PO/EFF) = Outs Above Average

For example, in a game that I started today Willie Mays in 1960 made 319 PO with a 1.080 EFF. We just need to ask the question, 319 is 108% of what number and then subtract it to get Outs Above Average.

319 - (319/1.080) = 319 - 295.4 = 23.6 Outs Above Average for Mays on the season.

He had a 17.9 ZR. So basically, each Out Above Average for him was worth 17.9/23.6 = 0 .76 Defensive Runs Saved based on the fielding situations.

It is possible another outfielder could also have 23 or 24 Outs Above Average and end up with more or less than 17.9 ZR for the season because the situations were different.


For 2B/3B/SS you do the same process but use Assists. A - (A/EFF) = Outs Above Average

For example, Maury Wills in my game in 1960 had 431 A and a 1.074 EFF.

431 - (431/1.074) = 431 - 401.3 = 29.7 Outs Above Average.

Maury Wills had a 17.2 ZR for the season.

For Maury Wills, these Outs Above Average were worth 17.2/29.7 = 0.58 Defensive Runs Saved based on the fielding situations.


I think that outfielder outs above average are generally worth more than infield plays because bad plays in the outfield can end up as extra bases.


As for RNG, this is just Range Factor, which is (PO + A) per 9 innings. This is not a useful metric for evaluating anything because batted ball opportunities are not the same for all players at a position in a league.


In terms of evaluating the player ratings for defensive ability, the overall Position Ratings are really more of a composite estimate. You actually need to look at the Defensive Ratings to make a better analysis.

For example, outfielders have their Outfield Range/Outfield Error/OutfieldArm ratings weighted into their composite positional rating at LF or CF or RF. However, outfielders do not make that many errors in a season, nor do they have a significant number of assists, but they do make hundreds of PO. Therefore, the Outfield Range rating of an outfielder is way more valuable than Error or Arm because that is what is going to generate more Outs Above Average.

Infielders can generate significant Outs Above Average with preventing Errors or by having good Range. As you go further back into baseball history, fielding percentages were lower, which means the SS Error rating is going to be worth more in 1901 than it is worth in 2001.

However, for SS you are still going to want great Range and great Arm. For 2B, Range is important, but Arm not as much. For 3B, Arm is more important than Range.

Thank you.

Hopefully they are looking at including OOA in v26.

[JasonPzak]

Great write up about ZR, EFF, and RNG.

My thing is comparing players with the ratings OOTP gives them - range , arm, and error.

I have two players who play SS. Both are 7 (2-10 scale) and range, arm, and error are very comparable. Their ZR, EFF, and RNG are very different.

How does the OOTP ratings effect ZR, EFF, and RNG?

[Pelican]

All this makes me a much better-informed voter in the fielding awards in my sims. Many, many thanks for the explainers and the work behind them.