Historical schedules

[AESP_pres]

To be honest I don't know if it's a bug or not (FWIW I think it's kind of like the historical database error fixing) but almost every major league schedules included in the game aren't the same than the real one at BBref... at least they aren't at the point I'm at (1919). There are games missing and because of that the real line-up aren't use by the game, unless you correct as I do those errors before the start of the season.


The person responsible for them should give them another look before the launch of the new version because if you want to play as real as possible it's a little bit "annoying" to check manually every seasons.

Edit: To clarify I talk about the "as played" schedules...

[AESP_pres]

This is an exemple of what I meant... The St. Louis / Boston game isn't in the game schedule.

[LansdowneSt]

Is it always the games that irl resulted in ties?

[AESP_pres]

I didn't even thought about that... but like I said if those games are missing the real line-up won't work. By example look at George Sisler stats... in 1915 I was using the schedules as is but I start editing them in 1916. Yes there are a difference in the total of game started but I can live with that since 1 or 2 games isn't the end of the world, but in 1915 this is out of wack (and I add the rookies to the team rooster the day they play their first game in real life before they are free agent).

[AESP_pres]

From what I understand in real life those tied games weren't part of the standing but the stats were included in the player stats at the end of the season... No idea what would be the easier way to fix that: add the games to the schedule as I do but get wrong total of games played at the end of a season or remove those games from the real lineup file (I can't edit that).

[AESP_pres]

BTW I think you're right because I just found another missing game august 18 and it's another tied game...

[Le Grande Orange]

Tie games are NOT included in the as played schedules because they do not count in the standings; they are ignored when calculating winning percentage. Also, tie games were treated like postponed games in that they were (usually) replayed in full. If you add the tie games back into the as played schedules teams will be playing too many games since OOTP cannot force what were ties in real to be ties in the sim.

Take 1915 as an example. Cincinnati had a record of 71-83-6 that season. It had 154 games played to a decision (win or loss), the number of scheduled games in the schedule. That means all 6 of those tie games were replayed, and to a decision. If you put the tie games into the as played schedule Cincinnati will be playing 160 games to a decision in the OOTP sim since there is no way to guarantee those 6 games end as a tie in the sim.

Note that it isn't just tie games, there are also 'no decision' games which were sometimes counted in the player statistics even though the game result was wiped from the standings. See this page at Retrosheet for more: No Decision Games

[AESP_pres]

That's what I thought... I'll continue to add them manually in the editor.

[AESP_pres]

At least now that Lans told me the obvious it's faster to edit the schedule since I just have to scan the BBRef schedule to find the tied games (easy to do since both team links have the same tint)... sure better than rebuild everything from scratch for two or three games.

[Le Grande Orange]

Your league standings will be a mess though because of all the extra games played beyond the normal scheduled number, at least until tie games stop being a thing.

[AESP_pres]

It doesn't make that much difference... I just did the schedule for 1920 and it was four extra games. By exemple in 1919, because I ended the season today, the World Series in my game was the same that it was in real life (except that Chicago won, so many good players will be suspended for life in 1921 for betting on a series they won in six games).

I just prefer to see the players get the games they played in real life...

[Le Grande Orange]

Teams are supposed to play 154 games, not more than that. Also, what about the seasons with tiebreaking playoff games? Does the lineup file contain the extra three games the Giants and Dodgers played in 1951? The as played schedule won't because these were games only played because of the end-of-season tie in the standings.


There is an important question here: how should OOTP handle historical lineups in regards to tie games and as played schedules? The present situation is not appropriate. I see two possible solutions:

(1) The historical lineups should be modified to remove the tie games, thus allowing the season to be historically competitively correct 140, 154, or 162 games; or

(2) The tie games remain in the lineups file, the as played schedules have the tie games added, and OOTP uses some system to flag those tie games such that when they appear in the day's schedule it automatically applies the historical tie result to that game. That is, rather than simming that game, OOTP instead takes the actual historical box score result and applies it, the players being credited with the stats they actually posted in the real life tie game.

This method allows the players to have their historically correct number of games for acquiring their stats while ensuring the competition for the league pennant is using the historically correct number of counting games. Accuracy at both the player and team/league level is preserved.

[AESP_pres]

I was thinking about those tied games (I know that some teams will get more than 154 games played because of that and it isn't realist) and finding a way to have the player stats but not the team win or loss...

So fast question: if I set them in the schedule as an exhibition game will that do what I want?

[LansdowneSt]

I’ve never set up an exhibition but my guess would be the stats are, like Spring Training, that is, not in the regular season bucket of stats.

[AESP_pres]

I just tested this and it doesn't work... nothing count for the teams and the players in the season stats.

[AESP_pres]

Just a small follow up to say that I've played the last two seasons without adding the missing tied games and the players game started in the game are the same than what was their real one (minus the extra ones that didn't count in the standings). After that I'm sure the problem I got in 1915 was more because I forgot to change the OOTP opening day to what was the real one that season before January first as I always do (my guess is that the transaction file and the lineup file loaded with a date based on what was the opening day and that I am the one who created the mess changing that date after those files were loaded).

So it looks like it was a "me" problem and not a game problem...