Everytme I want to steal a base, the runner always starts to run but then retreats back to the base

[EdgarFan72]

Why does this happen over and over and over when the game is close or is tied, I have a runner on 1st or 2nd, he hesitates and retreats ad nauseum? Finally, he does go for the steal, but then he's always caught stealing. The runner's speed is rated higher than the catcher's arm, the pitcher has a low hold rating, yet why is the runner always thrown out every time I simulate it, whether it's 2nd or 3rd base? It would seem to me if the runner's baserunning speed is higher than the catcher's arm along with the pitcher has a low hold rating. the baserunner should have no problem stealing 2nd or 3rd base successfully. Am I right or wrong?

In this case, the baserunner's speed is rated at 76 (I use a 0 - 100 rating), his stealing aggressiveness is mediocre (63), stealing ability is 71, and his baserunning speed is 84. Both the catcher's arm and the pitchers ability to hold runners isn't as high. So how the heck is he thrown out every single time? Are you telling me that just because his stealing aggressiveness is nowhere near as high as his overall speed, stealing ability, and baserunning speed he won't won't successfully steal a base against a catcher with a much lower arm rating than any of his baserunning numbers?!? Or is it just luck?

[Brad K]

If this is a historic player what do his real life stats look like?

Are you playing a year when overall success percentage is low?

If you're playing every pitch then the running will retreat what seems like a lot. But considering real life a base running may be looking for an opportunity on every pitch where he doesn't expect a pitchout, and that even after that they don't run a lot of the time they're on, it's not excessive.

[jets12]

I stopped trying to steal bases in this game a long time ago. Never works well for me. Now the AI is very good at stealing. I just go into a game knowing the running game is off the table for me.

[Brad K]

After a long time of simming a week at a time I've recently started "managing" games again. It's in quotes because all I do is handle substitutions.

[OutS|der]

Lets see some game logs proving this is an issue.

Since it's happening every time then it shouldn't be too hard to show that you can't get a single SB

[EdgarFan72]

Originally Posted by Brad K

If this is a historic player what do his real life stats look like?

Are you playing a year when overall success percentage is low?

If you're playing every pitch then the running will retreat what seems like a lot. But considering real life a base running may be looking for an opportunity on every pitch where he doesn't expect a pitchout, and that even after that they don't run a lot of the time they're on, it's not excessive.

I'm pretty sure I'm not playing every pitch, as it will show what the count was when he puts the ball in play (or strikes out). Sometimes, batters put the ball in play on the 1st pitch. I'm currently simulating the 1995 Seattle Mariners - I don't know if that year was considered a difficult year for base stealing but the Mariners were tied for 4th place with the White Sox with 110 stolen bases. Only Cleveland (132), Kansas City (120), and Oakland (112) had more. That doesn't sound like a difficult year as far as the American League is concerned. I should also admit in my game it's early in the season - only the 3rd game.

In my original post, it was Joey Cora (In 1995 he had 18 out of 25 attempts & in his career 117 out of 177) who I subbed for Edgar Martinez ('Gar hit a single) & I was trying to make something happen in favor of the Mariners - by stealing 2nd base & putting him into scoring position in a tie game in the 5th inning against the Tigers.

[Brad K]

In 1995 Cora had 103 singles, 37 walks, and 6 HBP for a total of 146. He also reached first on an unknown number of errors and fielders choices, but also was blocked from stealing by a runner on second an unknown number of times.

But he tried to steal 25 times. Rich Amaral has a total on the above count method of 71 and attempted to steal 23 times. So I'd say Cora often doesn't get a good enough jump to run.

Big thing though is that three games into the season there's no valid complaint about player's performance..

[SeanSmith]

If you choose ‘steal 2B’ then many times the runner will get a bad jump and go back. If the pitch is a ball I’ll probably try again. If a strike, probably take off the steal, otherwise you’re giving away an out at the plate whether the base is stolen or not.

You can always try ‘run and hit’ but when I do that the success rate seems to be much lower. I think the way the game works makes sense. Let’s say you have a slow or average speed runner who picks his spots well and steals 9 bases in 10 attempts.

That does not mean that such a player should be able to steal 90 bases if you ask him to run 100 times. The didn’t get a good jump and go back function works well to limit crazy and unrealistic baserunning.

Beyond that, if you think your guy should make it 75% of the time and you are always getting thrown out, you can open the league settings and change the expected SB success rate. I’ve had leagues where it was too high, others too low. Make a change in the direction you want, then keep track of what the league success rate is since you made the change, If 2 weeks later the results aren’t what you want, go back to settings and try again.

[JudgeGio]

Nevermind.

[redranger]

I play every pitch. Not sure if it matters but I’m pretty selective on what pitch counts I run on or hit/run on

Also if I a choose to send a runner but he hesitates in that count I tend to draw back and not send or wait on another count to send him

I build my teams around good speed and I always tend to either lead or be in the top 5 in stolen bases as a team every year


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by EdgarFan72

Why does this happen over and over and over when the game is close or is tied, I have a runner on 1st or 2nd, he hesitates and retreats ad nauseum? Finally, he does go for the steal, but then he's always caught stealing. The runner's speed is rated higher than the catcher's arm, the pitcher has a low hold rating, yet why is the runner always thrown out every time I simulate it, whether it's 2nd or 3rd base? It would seem to me if the runner's baserunning speed is higher than the catcher's arm along with the pitcher has a low hold rating. the baserunner should have no problem stealing 2nd or 3rd base successfully. Am I right or wrong?

In this case, the baserunner's speed is rated at 76 (I use a 0 - 100 rating), his stealing aggressiveness is mediocre (63), stealing ability is 71, and his baserunning speed is 84. Both the catcher's arm and the pitchers ability to hold runners isn't as high. So how the heck is he thrown out every single time? Are you telling me that just because his stealing aggressiveness is nowhere near as high as his overall speed, stealing ability, and baserunning speed he won't won't successfully steal a base against a catcher with a much lower arm rating than any of his baserunning numbers?!? Or is it just luck?

The baserunning rating is not speed, it is ability. IE being able to read the path of the ball and judge whether to take an extra base or not. A high rating should result in scoring more runs from 2b on a single, and 1b from a ball cut off in the gap. From the manual..

Baserunning
Baserunning is a measure of a player's ability when running the bases. Players with a high rating in Baserunning are more likely to take advantage of fielder miscues to advance a base, and less likely to get thrown out due to baserunning mistakes.

Stealing ability is the "success" rating for the attempted steal. Aggressiveness the ability to get a jump. The 71 steal ability is not exactly "top of the league" and not going to result in a high success rate. From the manual...

Stealing
Stealing is a measure of how good a player is at stealing. Stealing bases is not a matter only of speed, but also timing, knowledge of pitchers, and ability to 'get a good jump.' It is possible for a player to have a high Running Speed rating, but a low Stealing Bases rating, and vice versa, although the most dangerous baserunners have high ratings in both. A combination of strategy settings for stealing bases and Running Speed is used to determine how often a runner is given a "green light" to steal a base. Speed and pitcher Hold Rating then determine how good a jump the runner gets. If he gets a good jump and goes (ie a stolen base attempt) the Catcher Arm, pitcher Hold Rating, the type of pitch and Stealing Bases rating are the factors which determine whether the runner is safe.

Note that the "baserunning" rating is not mentioned in the explanation of how stealing works.

[jksander]

Originally Posted by Sweed

The baserunning rating is not speed, it is ability. IE being able to read the path of the ball and judge whether to take an extra base or not. A high rating should result in scoring more runs from 2b on a single, and 1b from a ball cut off in the gap. From the manual..



Stealing ability is the "success" rating for the attempted steal. Aggressiveness the ability to get a jump. The 71 steal ability is not exactly "top of the league" and not going to result in a high success rate. From the manual...



Note that the "baserunning" rating is not mentioned in the explanation of how stealing works.

Was definitely going to mention the fact that there are three ratings ... stealing, ability and instincts. That plus all the stuff Brad K mentioned already, so I don't feel like i'm piling on ... but there's a lot under the hood that goes into whether a player tries to steal or not.

[Hrycaj]

I can honestly say that I feel that as a human player I’m not having the same success the ai would in the run game. I have taken saves and made them QuickStarts where I would play out 30 games and then use the QuickStart and have the ai play out those same games and they are always more efficient in the run game than I am. Now a few things play into that. Each new save the games will play out differently and I’m probably way more conservative on the bases than the ai manager is. Still, I do feel they are just better at it than I am.

One thing that has helped me is that I will play in one pitch mode until I have a runner reach offensively. I then switch to pitch by pitch mode. By doing that I have drastically cut down on the ai picking me off and I am better able to choose the right moment to steal which has helped my success rate. The way my current lineup sits I’m more of a “a” run and hit player as I’m sending the runners in favorable hitting counts to try and gain the first to third outcome. The right player though will still steal the bag even if the hitter doesn’t make contact. Hope some of this helps.

[eauhomme]

Using "Run and Hit" or "Send Forced" makes the runner take off without retreating. I am aggressive in baserunning (once had a 400+ steal team) and come in about 80-85% depending on who I have on the team. That being said, I rarely run guys who are not well above average in speed, success, and aggression. I just usually have multiples on the roster.

[20_range]

Originally Posted by EdgarFan72

I should also admit in my game it's early in the season - only the 3rd game.

In my original post, it was Joey Cora (In 1995 he had 18 out of 25 attempts & in his career 117 out of 177) who I subbed for Edgar Martinez ('Gar hit a single) & I was trying to make something happen in favor of the Mariners - by stealing 2nd base & putting him into scoring position in a tie game in the 5th inning against the Tigers.

To pile on, pinch running for Edgar Martinez in the fifth inning is a catastrophic managing decision


True in any game state (maybe it's fine if you're up ten) or game of the season, but particularly in the third game of the 1995 season.


In 1995 Edgar Martinez led the American League in ops with 1.107!, worth 7 war as a dh. Joey Cora hit to a 91 ops+ (.731), and you're giving him two at bats instead of Martinez. As an edgarfan, you should not do this!

[Bobfather]

I run into this issue about every 5 seasons in my league. Some seasons the game makes it more difficult to steal. Just as some seasons homeruns go down as well as other things. Feature not a big.

[Sweed]

Currently 71 games into my current season and I am second in SB with 86 and 14 CS. I'm usually not this aggressive but my babip has been terrible and I've been trying to find a way to manufacture runs. I didn't even get aggressive until May as my April offense was doing fine. May came and the bottom fell out meaning most of those steals have come over the last two months.

Obviously I have a few guys with good SB and Aggressive ratings to get that result. I also pay attention to matchups and become conservative if the P has a high hold and the C a high arm. Now if you put an average, or god forbid a below average throwing C in the game I'm going to run wild.