Historical Ratings Problem

[Trav876]

There are lots of guys who get imported with terrible speed which, in real life, had good speed. Roger Cedeno, Neifi Perez... and many, many more. Seems like some kind of glitch.

Here is an example (this was with the scout accuracy "very high," and I went and verified by removing scouting, so that it was at 100% accurate- and these guys still had 20-25 speed, baserunning, stealing, etc.).

[Rain King]

What historical settings are you using? I just ran a few tests and can't replicate your Perez results. He always comes in with very good speed for me.

[Trav876]

Originally Posted by Rain King

What historical settings are you using? I just ran a few tests and can't replicate your Perez results. He always comes in with very good speed for me.

Strange. I simply have it checked for importing rookies to their original teams in career mode, historical.

Again, it's more than just Perez too. Roger Cedeno is another guy, Quinton McCracken... they're all extremely slow for some reason, and weren't in real life. And there are many more I notice too.

[Rain King]

Can you screenshot your historical settings page? Provide any further details on your setup? Did you change any settings from default? Is this a Save started on an older version of the game? Can you recreate this if you create a new save yourself?

[Trav876]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Can you screenshot your historical settings page? Provide any further details on your setup? Did you change any settings from default? Is this a Save started on an older version of the game? Can you recreate this if you create a new save yourself?

I mean, I changed a few things (like fielder ratings based on 3 years, pitcher ratings based on entire career), but pretty sure I've done that stuff before and haven't seen this as an issue.

Nothing I can think of that would make this happen. I don't have re-calc enabled. Here's a screenshot of my historical settings.

Also, I went and looked at another sim that I have entering a different year and interestingly, Perez is still slow. Not 20-25 on the ratings scale like in this sim, but slower than would be expected (here's a screenshot of that). McCracken for example though, is fast (as was in real life) in this sim, which is different from the one I posted about.

[Rain King]

Ok, I hadn't tested without Recalc. Can I assume 1996 is not the first year of your Save?

[Trav876]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Ok, I hadn't tested without Recalc. Can I assume 1996 is not the first year of your Save?

1993 was the first year, maybe the issue was Colorado being an expansion team? Though I did not do expansion draft, etc. since Colorado is already set up as a team. EDIT: I mentioned I did "import rookies to original teams," but did not mention I had full minor leagues going, and Perez (plus the others who this seems to be an issue with) were all minor leaguers in 1993 when I started the sim. Perhaps it's a minor league database thing?

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by Trav876

I mean, I changed a few things (like fielder ratings based on 3 years, pitcher ratings based on entire career), but pretty sure I've done that stuff before and haven't seen this as an issue.

Nothing I can think of that would make this happen. I don't have re-calc enabled. Here's a screenshot of my historical settings.

Also, I went and looked at another sim that I have entering a different year and interestingly, Perez is still slow. Not 20-25 on the ratings scale like in this sim, but slower than would be expected (here's a screenshot of that). McCracken for example though, is fast (as was in real life) in this sim, which is different from the one I posted about.

I imported him and this is what I got for his ratings.

[Reed]

I am probably wrong and I don't play with just development but wasn't Neifi Pérez a poor base stealer IRL?

[Trav876]

Originally Posted by twins_34

I imported him and this is what I got for his ratings.

He looks way different here. I started in 1993 where he wasn't 22 years old yet. This is a good point too because, I didn't mention it seems like more minor leaguers where this is an issue. I haven't noticed it with MLB guys.

[Trav876]

Originally Posted by Reed

I am probably wrong and I don't play with just development but wasn't Neifi Pérez a poor base stealer IRL?

He wasn't great- had a couple years with 8,9,10,13... but nowhere near what would warrant 20-25 ratings (on the 20-80 scale) for speed, baserunning, stealing, etc.

[Trav876]

Another example (again, there are many). Craig Counsell- very slow, bad runner all around. Again this is a couple years into the sim so he started off in the minor leagues.

He wasn't an excellent stealer in real life, similar to Perez in real life, had a handful of years with double digits. But definitely not at the bottom of the 20-80 scale like you'd have with pitchers, big power hitters... guys who just would never run.

And again, there were guys like McCracken & Cedeno who were fast in real life but are similar ratings in this sim, for whatever reason.

[Rain King]

I'm still not able to recreate this. I started in 1993, with full minors and he comes in with good speed ratings.

Are you able to recreate it if you create your league from the beginning?

[Trav876]

Originally Posted by Rain King

I'm still not able to recreate this. I started in 1993, with full minors and he comes in with good speed ratings.

Are you able to recreate it if you create your league from the beginning?

OK, just had time to set it up again and sure enough, same problem. Here's Perez (screenshot below)

And Roger Cedeno, big time base stealer in real life, imported slow & bad at stealing, in the original sim, now 1996 (screenshot below), as well as the new test sim (screenshot below) of 1993

Here were my historical settings:

Base roles on: AI Evaluation
Current/1 year Ratings
Neutralized stats
Potential: Remaining years of career
Fielding Ratings: Current season
Pitchers Ratings: Entire career

[Reed]

Thanks for setting it up again. This really is a strange one.

[Rain King]

Ok, I was able to recreate it. I had missed the Neutralized Database option.

When I started a league with that option in 1993 I am seeing the issue.

[LansdowneSt]

It's almost like it is reading the wrong column in the .csv file. Thanks to the OP for mentioning each step.

[Trav876]

Thanks guys, appreciate it. Glad Rain King was able to see the issue. Hopefully it can be in a future patch... before OOTP 26 is released?

[Matt Arnold]

Neutralized stats do not include minor league stats, so anyone without major league stats in the initial calculation won't have accurate speed/steal numbers. If running with recalc, when they get major league stats, those numbers would update accordingly. But if you are using the development engine, neutralized stats do not work that well in conjunction with historical minor leagues.

[Trav876]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Neutralized stats do not include minor league stats, so anyone without major league stats in the initial calculation won't have accurate speed/steal numbers. If running with recalc, when they get major league stats, those numbers would update accordingly. But if you are using the development engine, neutralized stats do not work that well in conjunction with historical minor leagues.

OK. I hadn't ever noticed this in past versions, is that new? Is there any plan to work on that?

Kinda disappointing because the Neutralized stats supposedly help make ratings import more realistically (unless I am understanding it incorrectly) particularly with teams like the Colorado Rockies who are in an extreme hitters park. Neutralized stats then would allow the pitchers who pitched that year in Colorado to avoid getting imported with very bad ratings, since the ballparks in the game are already weighted realistically (so the pitchers will already struggle more due to the park factors. Without neutralized ratings it would make it kind of a double-whammy...as they're pitching in an extreme hitters park and additionally are imported without ratings being neutralized). And then of course the flip side for hitters.

I know it's just for minor leaguers but if someone is trying to play the game with minor leaguers, they'd have to choose between either NOT playing with minors, or not using the Neutralized option