Help with 1990 lineups

[Larryk007]

Playing 1990 sim.
What was the opening day rosters pitcher and player mix?
Did the NL with 25 player team carry 11 pitchers and 14 position players? Did the AL with 25 player team carry 12 pitchers and 13 position players including DH?
I have looked for opening day lineups, which there are many links with the starting lineups, but none I have found show the actual makeup of the 25 player team rosters.
Any help would help!

[md40022]

In the early and mid 90s I was right at "that age" as a baseball fanatic kid where knowing every player on the roster's jersey number, favorite food, and what type of car they drove was a priority (yeah, I was a total baseball geek).... I do recall the NL roster split typically being 12 pitchers / 13 position players through a big chunk of the 90s. I'm like 99% certain of that at least in the 1990-95 range.

2 catchers, 6 infielders, 5 outfielders, 5 starting pitchers, a closer, a long reliver, 1 situational lefty, 4 middle relievers.

Can't really speak on the AL with as much confidence though.

[Larryk007]

Good memory! I thought I could find that kind of stats online somewhere, except the favorite food but sites only have the whole year team, but not the mix for any one time of the 25 player roster. There has to be a site somewhere.

What I found by playing the 1990 sim is that the starting pitchers went much longer in games and the relief pitchers went longer in games, IRL too.

So, I now have relief pitchers who have 4 innings pitched in the first two months, so I suspect something is wrong with my 12 pitchers and 13 players mix.

[Le Grande Orange]

It was actually a 24-man active roster in 1990 (as well in the preceding four seasons) as the owners had taken advantage of a loophole in the rules to reduce active rosters by one, purportedly as a cost-cutting measure.

The late settlement of the lockout resulted in the regular season start being delayed by a week to April 9th, and due to the abbreviated spring training, clubs were allowed to carry 27 players on the active roster through April 30th, after which it dropped to 24.

The new CBA ensured the active roster went back to 25 in 1991.

[Larryk007]

Yikes, that complicates things! 24 players! Thanks

[md40022]

So I might have given you slightly bad info in my initial post.

"until the mid-1990s, it was common for teams to carry only 10 pitchers"

https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Roster

Maybe what I thought was early 90s was actually mid 90s..... At SOME POINT in the 90s it was a 13 position / 12 pitcher breakdown

To your point, it seems really tough to find teams actual opening day 25 man rosters from the 90s. Everything seems to want to give you the full 40 man or full stats of everyone who appeared in a game..... but as I am poking around baseball reference and looking at the innings breakdowns within pitching staffs, it seems like the shift might have been starting around '93-ish. Right around then relievers seemed to start averaging about 1 inning per appearance which would make it seem like specialized bullpen roles were starting to become a thing - and that would explain the shift to carrying a few more pitchers. In the first few years of the 90s though, relievers were definitely routinely going multiple innings based on their games vs. innings. Seeeeeeeems like 93-ish is when the shift first started.

[Larryk007]

OK, thanks for the link. Without finding anything else out there right now, I am going to cut my pitchers down to 10 and see if I get more usage, without too much fatigue or worse, injuries.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by md40022

To your point, it seems really tough to find teams actual opening day 25 man rosters from the 90s. Everything seems to want to give you the full 40 man or full stats of everyone who appeared

The Associated Press, up to some point in the early 1990s, used to publish at the start of the season, the opening day active roster payroll of each ML club which included the players on each team and their salaries.

I know I have some of these reports saved on an external drive. I can try to dig these up.

[md40022]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The Associated Press, up to some point in the early 1990s, used to publish at the start of the season, the opening day active roster payroll of each ML club which included the players on each team and their salaries.

I know I have some of these reports saved on an external drive. I can try to dig these up.

Yeah I remember some of the old baseball magazines used to do that with their start of season editions. Geez, I wanna say the old hard copy Sporting News used to do it if I'm not mistaken and they weren't even baseball specific. I know they used to give team by team player stats so I guess you would have the opening day rosters sort of by default if you had the player states a week into the season. I'm actually kind of surprised that old opening day rosters aren't more easily accessible online. I would have thought a simple google search would have nailed this.

[Larryk007]

Ok, Sporting News, got to be online somewhere. I will look.
Again, trying to decide the correct number of pitchers and position players on 25 rosters IRL. Probably different for NL and AL.

[Le Grande Orange]

I found an Excel I put together which appears to have the opening day active roster for each ML club along with the players' salaries for the 1985 through 1993 seasons. You'd have to look up the players' position.

[Larryk007]

Cool, that is some work! Does it show the number pitchers and players per team? Right now I have 12 pitchers and 13 players on a 25 player roster. I think the 1990 sim the Al had less pitchers, maybe 10 and the NL had 11 or 12. Can you confirm?

[Le Grande Orange]

Found this in my archives. It's a WordPad file (converted to .doc format for uploading) from 2012 which contains the AP opening day salary report data for the 1990 season. You'd still have to look up each player's position, however.

[Caridnals-BK]

From the May 1, 1990 Santa Cruz Sentinel. I'm doing a deeper dive into the roster makeups from '90, but here's some info.

[Caridnals-BK]

Here's a look at April roster changes for the National League, and where their pitching staffs landed on the 1st of May. Half went back to 10. I didn't dig too far into May to see if they all settled back to 10.

May 1 Pitching staffs:
12 – Pittsburgh
11 – St. Louis, Cincinnati, Houston
10 – Mets, Cubs, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Atlanta
9 – Expos


Pittsburgh (3 C; 1 1B; 4 IF; 6 OF; 5 SP; 8 RP – 14/13)
4/30 – C Tom Prince and RP Mike Roesler optioned (13/12)

New York Mets (3 C; 3 1B; 4 IF; 5 OF; 5 SP; 7 RP – 15/12)
4/25 – RP Jeff Innis demoted and OF Chuck Carr promoted (16/11)
4/30 – OF Keith Miller; RP Julio Machado, OF Lou Thornton; OF Chuck Carr optioned; OF Darren Reed promoted; OF Daryl Boston claimed off waivers (15/10)

Expos (2 C; 2 1B; 6 IF; 6 OF; 5 SP; 6 RP – 16/11)
4/11 – RP Brett Gideon to DL; RP Rich Thompson promoted (16/11)
4/23 – IF Rex Hudler traded to Cardinals for RP John Costello (16/11)
4/25 – RP Joe Hesketh waived (16/10)
4/30 – RP John Costello to DL (16/9)
5/1 – IF Johnny Paredes returned and optioned

Chicago Cubs (3 C; 1 1B; 6 IF; 6 OF; 5 SP; 6 RP – 16/11)
4/30 – IF Greg Smith; RP Dean Wilkins optioned (15/10)
5/1 – RP Bill Long Claimed on Waivers; RP Jeff Pico optioned (15/10)

Philadelphia (2 C; 1 1B; 5 IF; 7 OF; 5 SP; 7 RP – 15/12)
4/30 – RP Todd Frohwirth waived; RP Brad Moore optioned (15/10)

St. Louis (2 C; 2 1B; 4 IF; 6 OF; 5 SP; 8 RP – 14/13)
4/15 – RP John Costello activated from DL; RP Howard Hilton optioned (14/13)
4/23 – RP John Costello traded to Expos for IF Rex Hudler (15/12)
4/23 – RP Cris Carpenter optioned; RP Tom Niedenfuer promoted (15/12)
4/29 – RP Ken Hill demoted; IF Terry Pendleton to DL (14/11)

Cincinnati (3 C; 2 1B; 5 IF; 6 OF; 5 SP; 6 RP – 16/11)
4/21 – C Terry McGriff optioned; RP Kip Gross promoted (15/12)
4/26 – OF Eric Davis placed on DL (14/12)
4/30 – SP Danny Jackson placed on DL (14/11)
Pitcher Ron Robinson was on the roster the whole month, but didn't pitch until the 29th.

Los Angeles Dodgers (2 C; 1 1B; 5 IF; 7 OF; 5 SP; 7 RP – 15/12)
4/16 – C Rick Dempsey to DL; C Carlos Hernandez recalled (15/12)
4/23 – IF Jeff Hamilton to DL; RP Jay Howell to DL; 1B Brian Traxler recalled (15/11)
4/24 – IF Jose Vizcaino recalled (16/11)
4/28 – SP Orel Hershiser to DL (16/10)
5/1 – Jose Vizcaino optioned (15/10)

San Francisco (3 C; 2 1B; 6 IF; 5OF; 5 SP; 7 RP – 16/12 – 1 Extra – Bedrosian might have been off roster at start of season
4/18 – RP Ernie Camacho promoted (16/13 - ?)
4/18 – Russ Swan demoted (16/12 - ?)
4/21 – IF Greg Litton off DL; IF Tony Perezchica demoted (16/12 - ?)
4/25 – MR Andy McGaffigan released (16/11)
4/26 – SP Eric Gunderson demoted (16/10)
4/27 – SP John Burkett promoted (16/11)
4/29 – RP Dan Quisenberry retires (16/10)
4/30 – 1B Mike Laga demoted (15/10)
4/30 – OF Brad Komminsk waived (14/10)

Houston (2 C; 1 1B; 6 IF; 6 OF; 5 SP; 7 RP – 15/12)
4/11 – OF Eric Anthony to DL; OF Mark Davidson promoted (15/12)
4/17 – IF Steve Lombardozzi to DL; IF Casey Candaele promoted (15/12)
4/28 – RP Charlie Kerfeld traded (15/11)
4/30 – OF Eric Anthony activated from DL; OF Mark Davidson to DL (15/11)
4/30 – IF Dave Rohde demoted (14/11)

San Diego (2 C; 3 1B; 5 IF; 6 OF; 5 SP; 6 RP – 16/11)
4/30 – 1B Rob Nelson, RP Rafael Valdez demoted (15/10)

Atlanta (3 C; 1 1B; 6 IF; 5 OF; 5 SP; 7 RP – 15/12)
4/24 – RP Tommy Greene demoted; RP Rusty Richards promoted (15/12)
4/28 – RP Charlie Kerfeld Acquired via trade (15/13 – not rostered?)
4/29 – RP Mike Stanton placed on DL (15/12)
4/30 – 1B Nick Esasky placed on DL; 1B Mike Bell promoted (15/12)
4/30 – RP Joe Hesketh claimed off waivers; RP Rusty Richards, RP Rick Luecken, RP Sergio Valdez demoted (15/10)