Bring Back Manual

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by twins_34

Wrong, this is the furthest from the truth! Look at all the fixes and patches! 90% of all fixes have been for BASE GAME not PT.

Which proves what? That they got PT right the first time, that's what.

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Which proves what? That they got PT right the first time, that's what.

If you wanna think that, go ahead. There have been many people that have quit PT over the new combinator cards. There HAVE been patches for PT just most of the focus has been on the base game with all the new changes.

But, no... they did not get PT right and if you even watched the convos over the combi cards, you would have never said what you did.

[Brad K]

Sorry, but the most logical conclusion to the 90/10 mix of fixes you report is that there is a lot less wrong with PT. After all, they can't fix what's not broken!

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Sorry, but the most logical conclusion to the 90/10 mix of fixes you report is that there is a lot less wrong with PT. After all, they can't fix what's not broken!

Using that logic nothing was broke in OOTP before PT.

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Sorry, but the most logical conclusion to the 90/10 mix of fixes you report is that there is a lot less wrong with PT. After all, they can't fix what's not broken!

Might be logical to you but to the rest of the world, not so much. Maybe instead of sitting here complaining about the game, become a beta tester so you can actually see what goes on. It's not even very hard to do it. Then it may open your eyes to see how much this dev crew busts their butts with very little thanks!

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by twins_34

Wrong, this is the furthest from the truth! Look at all the fixes and patches! 90% of all fixes have been for BASE GAME not PT.

You do realize that patches to make the base game run better also benefit PT?

The Dev team can be as dedicated and put in as much work as they want. Nobody is questioning that. We just accept the reality that no matter how much Markus works or cares he's just an employee now and he doesn't decide the focus. The new owners do and they have clearly put the focus on PT.

This is like saying 90% of patches to EA sports games are to the base game somehow proves they haven't now put all focus to the online card game like everyone else

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by twins_34

Might be logical to you but to the rest of the world, not so much. Maybe instead of sitting here complaining about the game, become a beta tester so you can actually see what goes on. It's not even very hard to do it. Then it may open your eyes to see how much this dev crew busts their butts with very little thanks!

How cool. The game is broken and it's my fault for pointing it out.

OK. Thanks, dev crew, for busting your butts even though you're spinning your wheels due to poor planning, trying to do more than you're capable of doing, and not following best practices.

[Eugene Church]

I used to work at the student union at a university.
It was one of our jobs to keep the student union operation manual up-to-date.

It was a very difficult thing to do because procedures and policies were in a constant state of change and flux.
And we worked hard to keep it up-to-date and we had people to do it.

OOTP has no such luxury in personnel.
Updating the OOTP manual is a full-time job.
The best you can hope for is to get help in a general way about the game basics.

The OOTP24 manual is sufficient.
And on occasion it will help with a complex question, but not very often.

[jcard]

Originally Posted by twins_34

Wrong, this is the furthest from the truth! Look at all the fixes and patches! 90% of all fixes have been for BASE GAME not PT.

Now go to the Steam page and look at the ratio of PT-exclusive to legacy-related (including those that also apply to PT). Note the suggestion of at least a partial substitution effect between patches / fixes on the one hand and updated content and new gameplay variety on the other. By nearly the All-Star break, I would prefer that attention to the legacy game was evident in the latter form (including, for example, the few additions that the release documentation promised as imminent) rather than the current situation of ongoing (and often futile) attempts at rectifying fundamental problems and get the product to even some release-quality expectation.

[low]

Originally Posted by twins_34

Might be logical to you but to the rest of the world, not so much. Maybe instead of sitting here complaining about the game, become a beta tester so you can actually see what goes on. It's not even very hard to do it. Then it may open your eyes to see how much this dev crew busts their butts with very little thanks!

Yes, very little, considering we all keep them in business. Come on, man.

[Brad K]

Normally people who sell the product thank the customers for buying it.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

I used to work at the student union at a university.
It was one of our jobs to keep the student union operation manual up-to-date.

It was a very difficult thing to do because procedures and policies were in a constant state of change and flux.
And we worked hard to keep it up-to-date and we had people to do it.

OOTP has no such luxury in personnel.
Updating the OOTP manual is a full-time job.
The best you can hope for is to get help in a general way about the game basics.

The OOTP24 manual is sufficient.
And on occasion it will help with a complex question, but not very often.

While I agree with you, Eugene, I still maintain the importance of a written manual (or a wiki) in order to explain the finer points of the game, which are many.

Also, over the years, game manuals (or wikis) have been important to me in another fashion: feature discovery. Literally, in a game as complex as this one, there could be features that remain in the fog of gaming until one runs across them while perusing the game manual (or wiki).

I will leave the thread with this admonition for OOTPD, as well as an apology in advance if they have already done this someplace and I have overlooked it: If their intention is to discontinue the online manual, then they should have come out and said so rather than making some of us wait for months in vain.

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by twins_34

There HAVE been patches for PT just most of the focus has been on the base game with all the new changes.

According to Steam the updates for PT far surpass the ones for the base game. As much as 4-5x times as many updates and patches for PT. But you go ahead and keep gaslighting us that the base game is the main focus.

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

You do realize that patches to make the base game run better also benefit PT?

Wow. No, no it don't. This is NOT like Madden where when they change something in MUT it breaks Franchise! The only fixes between PT and base game are the graphics and the movements! Otherwise they are totally different systems!

When they fix stuff for the Dev Lab, fielding ratings, player splits, player contracts, budget stuff, issues with waivers, fixing the player editor. In fact, this whole list has ZERO to do with PT! When they fix anything in PT it is listed as PT in front!

Changelists 25.6.71:
Updated default rosters (need to start a new game for changes to apply).
Updated initial fictional player contracts/team financials
Adjusted owner budget calculations
Added “shuffle teams” option to edit schedule page
Updated default window size when windows scaling enabled
Fixed some off-season awards scheduling
Fixed prospects being put on waivers at the end of the season
Fixed retire according to history missing some minor league players
Fixed injury rating underflow in rare cases for outstanding speed and stamina development program results
Fixed player editor neutral ERA estimate
Fixed draft player SB stats
Fixed historical career fielding ratings for select players
CSV/SQL exports:
To player value table, add “oa_rating” and “pot_rating” to display calculated ratings (stars/20-80)
To scouted ratings table, add “overall” and “talent” fields with the current ratings, change “overall_rating” and “talent_rating” to display calculated ratings (stars/20-80)

PT does not have the dev system, PT does not use the recalc system, PT does not use 95% of anything base game and the 5% is mainly the 3D and player ratings stuff! But if they change the ratings in base game it does not break a player in PT and vice versa. This is where OOTP did things right separating these two aspects of their game. Just like changing things on OOTP desktop does not touch anything on OOTP Go. They are two totally different things!

Base game and PT should really be considered two TOTALLY different games in side of the same game package!

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by low

Yes, very little, considering we all keep them in business. Come on, man.

This could go like EA and how they ignore the bugs. This dev crew cares about their game and strives to try and fix game breaking bugs, something AAA devs just do not do! there are so many bugs in MLB the show and Madden and they just don't care but here, you see bug fixes, adjustments, everything to make YOUR game play better and only for $40. You get NOTHING for your $80 from EA or SDS hell their devs don't even talk to the players! So yeah, you should feel pretty grateful that you get that experience here and all the hard work! A Nice Thank You is free and goes WAY farther than your $40!

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by jcard

Now go to the Steam page and look at the ratio of PT-exclusive to legacy-related (including those that also apply to PT). Note the suggestion of at least a partial substitution effect between patches / fixes on the one hand and updated content and new gameplay variety on the other. By nearly the All-Star break, I would prefer that attention to the legacy game was evident in the latter form (including, for example, the few additions that the release documentation promised as imminent) rather than the current situation of ongoing (and often futile) attempts at rectifying fundamental problems and get the product to even some release-quality expectation.

This just is not worth trying to respond to. No one here was talking about past versions, but thanks for chiming in?

[mytreds]

If you want to attract new players, you need to have a proper manual.

If something is prevented the manual from being made, day 1 on release, it needs to be asked why.

As someone who no longer purchases up to date ootp, not having a manual is another reason to not come back to the product.

It matters more than you think.

[textilemonster]

I'm kind of surprised there was no Wiki for this series at least. But maybe it changes from year to year too much? The games I play with amazing wikis generally go quite a while before getting a sequel.

[fredbeene]

I think they are purposely NOT documenting ANYTHING so people have to go to social sites to posts questions over and over (with rarely a final respons)
There is NO MANUAL by design
There is still no in game help or tool tips
Still no good quick starts (the hockey manager does a great job)

And all the manuals were rarely updated from the original year.

I was hoping for enhancements like:
30 common simulating scenarios and how to set them up.

In the mean time you can waste time testing various setting and running sims to try and make sense.

Pretty graphics cover up flaws. I am guessing most people aren't detail oriented

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

According to Steam the updates for PT far surpass the ones for the base game. As much as 4-5x times as many updates and patches for PT. But you go ahead and keep gaslighting us that the base game is the main focus.

seriously? gaslighting?? just stop