Rule 5 draft is broken

[FantasyDrafter]

Since my original discussion is buried in another thread, here is a fresh look.

The youngest a player can be in the rule 5 draft pool is 20 years old. That player would have needed to sign at 16 years old AND been in an organization for 5 seasons.

OOTP 25 has many players, every season, in every simulation, that are 17-19 years old. It has nothing to do with “early promotions” as was claimed in the previous thread. THE PLAYERS ARE TOO YOUNG.

I have shown screenshots before, here are some more from 2024, 2030, 2035 and 2040 on a sim I ran last night / this morning.

How’s the fix coming?

[md40022]

Not making any excuses here, if it's broken it should be fixed (and I'm sure it will be), but knowing the requirement of any player drafted in the Rule 5 needing to remain on the MLB team's roster for the entire season - my best guess is this problem would not have much impact on the actual rule 5 draft itself.

Nobody is going to want to carry a 17 year old who's not even remotely close to being MLB reader on their big league roster, obviously.

[FantasyDrafter]

Originally Posted by md40022

Not making any excuses here, if it's broken it should be fixed (and I'm sure it will be), but knowing the requirement of any player drafted in the Rule 5 needing to remain on the MLB team's roster for the entire season - my best guess is this problem would not have much impact on the actual rule 5 draft itself.

Nobody is going to want to carry a 17 year old who's not even remotely close to being MLB reader on their big league roster, obviously.

That is irrelevant. This is a simple if/then statement. The rules are very clear and well defined.

I am only showing the obvious ones by age. Without combing through 1000s of rule 5 drafts, how many 20, 21, 22 year olds are in these pools who don’t meet the actual rule 5 criteria because the programmer has the rules/logic written incorrectly?

[snepp]

Shoot, I just went past my rule 5 date and didn't even bother glancing at the pool past the very top of it to take a peek.

I'll pay closer attention next offseason. (3 hours or so )

[FantasyDrafter]

For those who don’t know here is the rule 5 criteria:

If you sign at 18 or younger - 5 seasons in an organization.

If you sign at 19 or older - 4 seasons in an organization.

[md40022]

Originally Posted by FantasyDrafter

That is irrelevant. This is a simple if/then statement. The rules are very clear and well defined.

Just as the rules are very clear and well defined on where bugs should be reported.

Take a deep breath, it is all going to be okay.

[RoiDanton]

Just out of curiosity as you did not actually name the full rule 5 criterias. Are all these players still actually on their 1st professional contract? The rule 5 draft eligibility gets changed if for example a player was released and signed elsewhere. See Elvis Luciano or Wei-Chung Wang as examples.

Because I did check my own simulated save that is in 2030 and any player I found there being Rule 5 eligible while being 20 years old or younger, is no longer on their 1st professional contract, so it's correct that they're eligible.

[FantasyDrafter]

Originally Posted by RoiDanton

Just out of curiosity as you did not actually name the full rule 5 criterias. Are all these players still actually on their 1st professional contract? The rule 5 draft eligibility gets changed if for example a player was released and signed elsewhere. See Elvis Luciano or Wei-Chung Wang as examples.

Because I did check my own simulated save that is in 2030 and any player I found there being Rule 5 eligible while being 20 years old or younger, is no longer on their 1st professional contract, so it's correct that they're eligible.

I would be happy to be proven wrong, please do so. The clock STARTS when you sign your first professional contract. If you are released and picked up by another team the clock stays with your 2nd professional contract. If it didn’t, any minor leaguer who was traded and signed with a new organization would be rule 5 eligible, no?

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stor...-rule-5-draft/

[Carplos]

This seems like a good overview of all the eligibility rules beyond the basic four or five year scenarios.

https://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3517

[FantasyDrafter]

This is from Wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt but it is the best I can do at the moment. The exceptions in the cases you mentioned are when a team releases a player and then re-signs the same player.

There can be exceptions to these rules, however. Players may also be eligible to be selected due to having a previous contract voided and then re-signing with their original signing team within a year. Notable players selected due to this rule include Wei-Chung Wang and Elvis Luciano.[5]

Perhaps that is what happened in the OOTP case. If so, it is happening at an unreasonable/unacceptable rate in OOTP.

[Daniel_09]

I don't know if the rule 5 system is broken but it is important for the OOTP development team to review if the rule 5 draft has the correct rules as to why teams are releasing or making transactions with players so young and so close to signing.

[FantasyDrafter]

Originally Posted by Carplos

This seems like a good overview of all the eligibility rules beyond the basic four or five year scenarios.

https://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3517

Thanks - looks like that matches what I found.

[FantasyDrafter]

Originally Posted by Daniel_09

I don't know if the rule 5 system is broken but it is important for the OOTP development team to review if the rule 5 draft has the correct rules as to why teams are releasing or making transactions with players so young and so close to signing.

And then immediately signing them back (which is the lost logical reason why they are eligible).

[Daniel_09]

in the rule 5 draft there are usually no players so young as teams sign them at 16 or 17 and give them a few years to prove their value, but seeing the images above, it seems that teams are making transactions with players who signed in previous months only. and possibly have not even played in the DSL.

[Daniel_09]

Originally Posted by FantasyDrafter

And then immediately signing them back (which is the lost logical reason why they are eligible).

Absolutely Right

[Daniel_09]

It could be that the league in question has limitations in the number of players in DSL, or the scouting discoveries are very high, I have seen that by default it is very high almost 3 or 4 per month, this makes it very easy to fill the roster of the DSL team and the International Complex in a year.

[FantasyDrafter]

Originally Posted by Daniel_09

It could be that the league in question has limitations in the number of players in DSL, or the scouting discoveries are very high, I have seen that by default it is very high almost 3 or 4 per month, this makes it very easy to fill the roster of the DSL team and the International Complex in a year.

My very first sim I started upon release was an inaugural draft where I had full control of minors/majors transactions. My international discoveries stopped I think in the 2nd season when the IC filled up. I never noticed this then, because I only simmed a couple of seasons and looked at the top prospects in the rule 5.

I only noticed it in a later test where I was just simming along with the AI in control of minors and my highest potential rule 5 eligible player was 18. That’s when I went to the pool and first discovered how prevalent it was.

I never remember this from previous versions and as a rule I have typically let the AI manage the minors. If the rule is written correctly (which should be easy for the team to verify and they got my league file a week ago) then the organization management logic has taken a step backwards this year.

[FantasyDrafter]

And the latest screenshots were from as default as it comes - I hit “new standard game” and started simming.

[Daniel_09]

Originally Posted by FantasyDrafter

And the latest screenshots were from as default as it comes - I hit “new standard game” and started simming.

Got it.

Then some settings of a standard game have to be checked, it can be the AI's management of the teams as well as if the high number of scouting discoveries makes the CPU have to release players on a monthly basis.

[FantasyDrafter]

Originally Posted by Daniel_09

Got it.

Then some settings of a standard game have to be checked, it can be the AI's management of the teams as well as if the high number of scouting discoveries makes the CPU have to release players on a monthly basis.

But here is the problem - release players and then immediately re-sign them (within 1 year anyway)?

I’m going to log in to the latest sim and see if I can tell if that is what happened. All I had done previously was check their amount of time as a professional.