19th Century 3D Ballparks

[The Game]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

OK, next up is Chicago's South Side Park (II). This was built for the Chicago entry in the Players' League in 1890, accounting for one of its alternate names ("Brotherhood Park"), and the then-Colts now-Cubs moved in after the Players' League. They did not stay long, however, as a desire to play Sunday ball while the World's Columbian Exposition (aka the World's Fair) was in town led them to build West Side Park. The site of this ballpark is now a parking lot for the White Sox' park.

Google Drive link to South Side Park 1891

There's not much info about this park at all. It doesn't show up on any contemporary atlases, there's very little in Green Cathedrals about it save the capacity and the wall height. There's one contemporary newspaper sketch of football action in the park, and one researcher who made a drawing of its layout relative to the street grid. On the other hand, that did give me some freedom to make things a bit more convenient to model and not have to know I was being ahistorical by doing so...

I think this park gets us back to 1891 for the eight present-day NL teams that existed back then!

So you know, you don't have a daytime photo in the file. i used the screenshot from above.

[oosl]

Originally Posted by The Game

So you know, you don't have a daytime photo in the file. i used the screenshot from above.

asrivkin

There are a couple in the Jazz Age thread that don’t have the day and night time photos in the file as well, would it be possible to get those?

[asrivkin]

OK, next up is the brief home of the New York Giants, called the Polo Grounds when they were there, but generally called Manhattan Field for most of its existence. It's story is a bit of an odd one--the Giants leased the area and built this park but left half of the usable area unleased since they didn't need it. Then in 1890 the Players' League leased the other half and built their own ballpark, which they called Brotherhood Park, separated from the Polo Grounds by an alley. When the PL dissolved, the NY team's owners ended up with a stake in the NL Giants and it was decided to move the Giants into Brotherhood Park, which got renamed the Polo Grounds (and which is the Polo Grounds that lasted until 1911) while the 1889 NL Polo Grounds became Manhattan Park. Clear?

Google Drive link to Polo Grounds 1889

In its Manhattan Field years, it mostly got used for track and field and amateur baseball, and especially college football. It apparently suffered the drawback (from the owners' point of view) of being impossible to seal off from spectators on the bluff, and apparently Coogan not only was willing to lease his land for two competing ballparks but also made money for himself by charging for people to watch from overlooks and not go into the parks at all...

Most (all?) of the images I found were from the Manhattan Park period, and I used what were reported as the 1890 dimensions. I made the canvas a bit bigger than usual so I could stick Silvam's Polo Grounds in next door. I also stuck a camera up on top of Coogan's Bluff. I tried to be historical with the information I had--I took down the 15th Avenue Viaduct (which is in the teaser post) when I realized it didn't get built until 1891 or so. The clubhouse in right field isn't quite right either, and there are references to canvas walls that I can't really place. But hopefully this is good enough for our purposes!

I'll probably try Pittsburgh 1882 next, but we'll see what actually happens!

[asrivkin]

Originally Posted by The Game

asrivkin

So you know, you don't have a daytime photo in the file. i used the screenshot from above.

Originally Posted by oosl

asrivkin

There are a couple in the Jazz Age thread that don’t have the day and night time photos in the file as well, would it be possible to get those?

By daytime photo, you mean what gets used for 2D games? I admit to being kind of lazy, I could certainly be better about including those if folks want them, and could update what's already been done to include those (sorry I didn't read the most recent messages or I would have put one in the Polo Grounds). But I do try to include a screenshot in posts that can be used as the 2D daytime photo, if one is willing to download it and stick it in.

Doing nighttime correctly is kind of a hassle, at least the way I understand they get done--one needs to edit the images in a non-uniform way so the buildings and landscapes are darkened but random windows are lit up, and then the 3D objects would also need to be edits for nighttime 3D. I'm happy to share my Sketchup files with anyone who feels like making nighttime versions of things, but it's a low priority for me personally...

[oosl]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

By daytime photo, you mean what gets used for 2D games? I admit to being kind of lazy, I could certainly be better about including those if folks want them, and could update what's already been done to include those (sorry I didn't read the most recent messages or I would have put one in the Polo Grounds). But I do try to include a screenshot in posts that can be used as the 2D daytime photo, if one is willing to download it and stick it in.

Doing nighttime correctly is kind of a hassle, at least the way I understand they get done--one needs to edit the images in a non-uniform way so the buildings and landscapes are darkened but random windows are lit up, and then the 3D objects would also need to be edits for nighttime 3D. I'm happy to share my Sketchup files with anyone who feels like making nighttime versions of things, but it's a low priority for me personally...

If you could post the ones you already did that would be wonderful. Even having just the ones you already did would be a huge benefit that would be appreciated.

[asrivkin]

OK, just so I'm sure what you're asking for--are you asking for the daytime picture, which is loaded/added in Pictures & Coordinates tab, used for 2D games, and is what you see when you look at the park profile, or are you looking for the Sketchup files?

If you're looking for the daytime pictures, what I may do is make a post in each threads with the missing ones so far and instructions for how to load them in, and then include them going forward in parks I post. I think that might be easier for everyone than revising the zip files and having people re-download those. Does that work?

[oosl]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

OK, just so I'm sure what you're asking for--are you asking for the daytime picture, which is loaded/added in Pictures & Coordinates tab, used for 2D games, and is what you see when you look at the park profile, or are you looking for the Sketchup files?

If you're looking for the daytime pictures, what I may do is make a post in each threads with the missing ones so far and instructions for how to load them in, and then include them going forward in parks I post. I think that might be easier for everyone than revising the zip files and having people re-download those. Does that work?

I am not sure yet how to post photographs for example.. What I was referring to for example is the whole field daytime photo you posted (the last picture in the post) in the Polo Grounds II post. The picture that shows the whole field.

My apologies if I am not using the correct terminology. I am referring to the photo that shows the entire field that you have for example at the bottom of that post.

[zappa1]

Polo II 1889 really nice park to play in. No troubles downloading and installing it. Just wanted to tell everybody that. Another winner.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

OK, next up is the brief home of the New York Giants, called the Polo Grounds when they were there, but generally called Manhattan Field for most of its existence. It's story is a bit of an odd one--the Giants leased the area and built this park but left half of the usable area unleased since they didn't need it. Then in 1890 the Players' League leased the other half and built their own ballpark, which they called Brotherhood Park, separated from the Polo Grounds by an alley. When the PL dissolved, the NY team's owners ended up with a stake in the NL Giants and it was decided to move the Giants into Brotherhood Park, which got renamed the Polo Grounds (and which is the Polo Grounds that lasted until 1911) while the 1889 NL Polo Grounds became Manhattan Park. Clear?

[The Game]

I have begun to use many of your parks lately for various leagues. A few misc questions.


1. why don't you include a daytime or nighttime photo with it?


2. why have all factors set to 100? I know I can redo factors myself and i am happy with the results for this one but do prefer when the creator sets them. No t a big deal overall, just asking.

[Garlon]

I actually suggested that these ballparks be set to 1.000. Factors change each season anyway and they are in the era ballparks file.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Garlon

I actually suggested that these ballparks be set to 1.000. Factors change each season anyway and they are in the era ballparks file.

that works.

[oosl]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

By daytime photo, you mean what gets used for 2D games? I admit to being kind of lazy, I could certainly be better about including those if folks want them, and could update what's already been done to include those (sorry I didn't read the most recent messages or I would have put one in the Polo Grounds). But I do try to include a screenshot in posts that can be used as the 2D daytime photo, if one is willing to download it and stick it in.

Doing nighttime correctly is kind of a hassle, at least the way I understand they get done--one needs to edit the images in a non-uniform way so the buildings and landscapes are darkened but random windows are lit up, and then the 3D objects would also need to be edits for nighttime 3D. I'm happy to share my Sketchup files with anyone who feels like making nighttime versions of things, but it's a low priority for me personally...

I was referring to the images such as this one. I finally figured out how to attach the image. If we could get these for all of the "missing" ones I would greatly appreciate that. Greenlawn Indianapolis, Swayne, etc, would be such a help.

Thank you in advance for your time.

[asrivkin]

Originally Posted by zappa1

Polo II 1889 really nice park to play in. No troubles downloading and installing it. Just wanted to tell everybody that. Another winner.

Thank you!

[asrivkin]

Originally Posted by The Game

I have begun to use many of your parks lately for various leagues. A few misc questions.

1. why don't you include a daytime or nighttime photo with it?

Garlon handled question #2. As for this one, I was under the impression that few people played in 2D so got I out of the habit of including the daytime pictures. I also rarely make parks that are in the night game era, so those parks don't have lights and a nighttime photo doesn't make sense to me (especially since to do it right involves some extra work that I find kind of tedious).

But it's easy enough to start including the day photos again. As (I think) I noted in an earlier comment, I think it'd be easier for everyone if I just make a post with the day images for the parks I already posted and instructions of how to add them for folks who need that, rather than do a revision of everything on the Google Drive. But I could be convinced otherwise if the folks that use these parks would rather get revisions posted!

[asrivkin]

Originally Posted by oosl

I was referring to the images such as this one. I finally figured out how to attach the image. If we could get these for all of the "missing" ones I would greatly appreciate that. Greenlawn Indianapolis, Swayne, etc, would be such a help.

Thank you in advance for your time.

OK, let me go through in the next few days and see if I can be systematic about this. If nothing else it'll make me put together a list of what I've posted in the last few years...

[The Game]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

Garlon handled question #2. As for this one, I was under the impression that few people played in 2D so got I out of the habit of including the daytime pictures. I also rarely make parks that are in the night game era, so those parks don't have lights and a nighttime photo doesn't make sense to me (especially since to do it right involves some extra work that I find kind of tedious).

But it's easy enough to start including the day photos again. As (I think) I noted in an earlier comment, I think it'd be easier for everyone if I just make a post with the day images for the parks I already posted and instructions of how to add them for folks who need that, rather than do a revision of everything on the Google Drive. But I could be convinced otherwise if the folks that use these parks would rather get revisions posted!

I don't play in 2D either anymore but it's more of a visual thing for me. Also i sometimes set up the fielders and batters using the 2D because sometimes in 3D they are out of the screen. Not saying that is true with yours. Also i like to look at the pics of the park after I install them.

[oosl]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

But it's easy enough to start including the day photos again. As (I think) I noted in an earlier comment, I think it'd be easier for everyone if I just make a post with the day images for the parks I already posted and instructions of how to add them for folks who need that, rather than do a revision of everything on the Google Drive. But I could be convinced otherwise if the folks that use these parks would rather get revisions posted!

I think if you just wanted to do a post with the day images for the parks posted that would be great. That makes the most sense to me and would be greatly appreciated.

[oosl]

Originally Posted by The Game

I don't play in 2D either anymore but it's more of a visual thing for me. Also i sometimes set up the fielders and batters using the 2D because sometimes in 3D they are out of the screen. Not saying that is true with yours. Also i like to look at the pics of the park after I install them.

Same with me, I like to look at the full pics of each park and I set up my fielders in 2D as well, it would be incredibly helpful to have all of them.

[asrivkin]

OK, that all sounds good. I'll put a post in each thread with the missing day pictures sometime this week!