cheating the system?

[quizkid]

From the PT terms of service:
you cannot:
(c) Cheat, deliberately lose, trade wins or Perfect Points, "feed" wins or Perfect Points from one account to another via the auction house or any other method, or otherwise fail to make a good-faith effort to play the game in a fashion intended to win via fair gameplay according to the intended operation of the game. Note that an Out of the Park Developments account is required to play Perfect Team, and individuals are limited to a single OOTP account. Use of multiple accounts by an individual, including the use of accounts registered under another person's name, real or fictitious, will be subject to the sanctions listed in (j) (k) and (l) below for the party or parties involved.
(d) Deliberately manipulate, outside the course of normal gameplay, the game's economy or the economy of any game-related marketplace in a manner intended to gain a financial or competitive advantage.

[rburgh]

To save for the future?

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by quizkid

From the PT terms of service:
you cannot:
(c) Cheat, deliberately lose, trade wins or Perfect Points, "feed" wins or Perfect Points from one account to another via the auction house or any other method, or otherwise fail to make a good-faith effort to play the game in a fashion intended to win via fair gameplay according to the intended operation of the game. Note that an Out of the Park Developments account is required to play Perfect Team, and individuals are limited to a single OOTP account. Use of multiple accounts by an individual, including the use of accounts registered under another person's name, real or fictitious, will be subject to the sanctions listed in (j) (k) and (l) below for the party or parties involved.
(d) Deliberately manipulate, outside the course of normal gameplay, the game's economy or the economy of any game-related marketplace in a manner intended to gain a financial or competitive advantage.

Thank you for clarifying this. Again I had no interest in doing it, but personally don't think that is any worse than paying to win, or getting codes from streamers.

As for (d), it seems that OOTP encourages this players to manipulate the game by allowing players to get packs from streamers. Watching a stream has nothing to do with the gameplay, but a player who get's those thousands of packets from codes clearly have manipulated the game, so that players who don't do the stream have a much more difficult chance to make the elite teams in the game and have manipulated the economy/marketplace to gain a financial and competitive edge.

Again, I'm not seeking any rule changes. OOTP is a great game with a great community, and I personally see no issue what players to do succeed including getting codes, paying to play, or jumping from league to league (outside from maybe creating two accounts, and feeding success from one to the other, or a diamond league team that drops to rookie ball).

My interest is how one thing that sticks entirely to the gameplay, is viewed as much worse than players (who OOTP encourages to) manipulate the entirety of the game from an outside source that has nothing to do with the gameplay itself.

That said I have a background of developing/facilitating large/small events/leagues/competitive challenges. So I am interested when there are rules that seem to contradict other rules. I don't do fantasy sports by a owner would be cheating if they somehow got a code from a stream to improve their team. Watch my stream and you I'll trade you Patrick Maholmes.

It simply intrigues me what is viewed as right and wrong.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by rburgh

To save for the future?

I'm not sure how the questions relates to the topic, but am intrigued to see where it is going.

Answer. I don't think so....

That said large stacks of cash can be eye raising, and I think I either read or heard something over 10 years ago that the government doesn't like it when people hoard currency, because it decrease the amount in circulation (not sure if factual or not).

Thanks for question.

[dishnet34]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

Thank you for clarifying this. Again I had no interest in doing it, but personally don't think that is any worse than paying to win, or getting codes from streamers.

You keep talking about "codes from streamers," and I'd like to correct you on this - our affiliate streamers, nor the OOTP Twitch, do not give out "codes" related to Perfect Team whatsoever.

I think you might be confusing this with Drops, where if someone watches a stream for a certain amount of time, they get packs for the game. For what it's worth, barring special events, this is limited to 5 or 6 packs a day for watching an affiliate, and if the OOTP channel is going, an additional 5 or 6 from a separate campaign. These are open to anyone who has a Twitch account, links their OOTP account to Twitch, and watches a stream.

Now, granted, I am working on creating a list for PT25 of these affiliate streamers so that there's a handy list available for those that do want to watch their streams - they all have excellent content related to not just PT, but the base game as well.

But, I will say, there are no "codes" related to PT that these streamers are giving away. Just wanted to clear the air on that.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by dishnet34

You keep talking about "codes from streamers," and I'd like to correct you on this - our affiliate streamers, nor the OOTP Twitch, do not give out "codes" related to Perfect Team whatsoever.

I think you might be confusing this with Drops, where if someone watches a stream for a certain amount of time, they get packs for the game. For what it's worth, barring special events, this is limited to 5 or 6 packs a day for watching an affiliate, and if the OOTP channel is going, an additional 5 or 6 from a separate campaign. These are open to anyone who has a Twitch account, links their OOTP account to Twitch, and watches a stream.

Now, granted, I am working on creating a list for PT25 of these affiliate streamers so that there's a handy list available for those that do want to watch their streams - they all have excellent content related to not just PT, but the base game as well.

But, I will say, there are no "codes" related to PT that these streamers are giving away. Just wanted to clear the air on that.

Thanks for clarifying, Props to you for creating the list, I think it will help people succeed. To reclarify, I don't see any harm done by any of the things I've discussed discussed and want know rules to change. But personally don't do any of them to benefit myself.

My whole discussion thought at this point is how people see someone purposefully dropping to a lower league (sticking to the normal game play) is viewed as evil, but twitch streamers (going outside the course of normal gameplay) manipulating the game isn't when there is a clear rule that states it is.

This was posted by quizkid, I assume its valid since they used it to explain why players who purposefully drop to a lower league is considered cheating. I saw it, and understood the is a written rule that states it is cheating, but so is twitch streamers giving out 3000 packs a year.

(d) Deliberately manipulate, outside the course of normal gameplay, the game's economy or the economy of any game-related marketplace in a manner intended to gain a financial or competitive advantage.

Perfect team is a great game, I enjoy it greatly, and want no rules to change. Im simply interested on how some rules are allowed to be bent to help players succeed outside of the standard gameplay, and nobody see's a problem with it. Twitch is an not standard gameplay, it is a great avenue for people to learn I gather, that gives players who watch it a huge advantage over those who don't.

Now I believe missions are instrumental to help players move up leagues. But its much easier to complete those missions if you get 12 packs a day from Twitch, and whatever from TOPPS (two outside sources from the gameplay).

Think of how much harder a player has to work to stick to solely the gameplay of Perfect team (not using an outside source) to succeed in a league against teams that got their cards because they watched twitch. In a league where a team is average, it is a grind to accumulate PP to help buy new players to help improve team. A twitch watcher doesn't need to grind, they simply have to watch a stream, gain their packs and use in their team or to help accomplish missions, or simply to sell to gain extra PP.

As for codes, with a little research I found that TOPPS drops codes. Don't know what they do as I've never used them, which likely gives more free packs to people.

Thanks for your post. I enjoy discussion to help learn/present different perspectives.

[Kushiel]

@Samueltbaum, the great thing about PT is that you can play however that you want. So, you can place all the restrictions that you like upon yourself.

If you stop and think a bit about the damage that tanking does to a league, you will begin to understand why it is illegal to lose on purpose. You would not like to play my team or hundreds like it in Rookie League. You would never make any PP against a top Diamond League team in the Rookie league while you would be absolutely slaughtered every game. I am not talking about teams with Live Perfects, but teams with the best cards. If one of these teams was in your league, they could buy another top player at the end of the week from the PP.

Now watching streams on Twitch can teach you how to play the game in a competitive manner. It can teach you what cards are actually worth playing as you learn the nuances of the game. While you are learning, you get the chance to win a few packs. These packs will not make you a 1927 Yankee juggernaut. They will help you build your team without spending dollars. And believe me you will be playing against players that have spent megabucks. So, enjoy the streams, earn a few packs, and have fun.. Or don't watch them. It is up to you in this sand box.

[rburgh]

The base level PT game is active for about 300 days, from initial release through the end of the calendar year.

In that 300 days, you will get 370 packs from login rewards.

If you buy PT+ for 10 months, you will get another 370 packs from login rewards.

If you average 30K PP's per week, 300 days is about 43 weeks. So in that time period, if you know how to generate PP's from in-game achievement awards, you can earn 1,290,000 PP's.

So, by doing nothing except cutting your smoking by a few packs of cigs a month, or your drinking by cutting back a six-pack of beer as month, you can end the 300 day window with 740 packs and 1.29 million PP's.

In order to position yourself to have the opportunity to make your team relevant for the last 65 days of the OOTP year, you probably need to have opened about 5000 packs and have about 5 million PP's on hand to buy the top end cards.

So the problem is, how can a user generate over 4000 packs so that he has a chance to be competitive at the highest level?

Well, watching twitch streams and collecting the pack drops will earn you 50 or more packs a week. 50 x 43 is 2150, so you can achieve more than half of the remaining pack shortfall simply by logging in to the various OOTP streams. Note that you don't actually have to watch them, you can simply check in every 15 minutes or so to claim your most recent drop.

You can generate a lot of PP's by speculating on the monthly revaluation of cards. There are streams to help you with that, but a much simpler way to play this is to just buy up to 10 of every live iron and bronze who is likely to play well enough to progress to the silver level or higher. I set a buy level for irons at 7-8 and bronzes at 28 or so.

Once you buy up to 10, cards of those players you pull from packs are added to your total. In mid-November, you simply go through your live card inventory and quicksell all of the unlocked silver and higher live cards you own. YMMV, but experienced players confidently expect to earn 5 million + PP's.

This strategy will also help you complete next year's version of the PT Elite missions, which will give you at least a half dozen of the meta open team cards.

You can also enter tournaments, to win packs and Tournament Edition historical cards. None of this is more expensive than the PT+ subscriptions, and as you see they're not really a big contributor to the ultimate goal.

[Ty Cobb]

Originally Posted by rburgh

There are. But the game company cracks down hard on people who do this.


But mostly, there are people who play this game extremely well. It's just like chess - I appreciate the artistry of the top players, but I could never hope to compete with them. I played against Viktor Korchnoi once, when he gave a simul in Pittsburgh. There were about 30 people who paid for the privilege of losing to him; I was one of the first ones out.

I played once against a cousin from out of state who was decently (but far from GM) rated and won...proudest chess moment of my life...

but to have the opportunity to play against a guy who once played for all the marbles...man, that would be so amazingly incredible, just for the learning experience alone...and the bragging rights. To wit, "I'm 0-1 against guys who played for World Champion." Congrats!

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Kushiel

@Samueltbaum, the great thing about PT is that you can play however that you want. So, you can place all the restrictions that you like upon yourself.

If you stop and think a bit about the damage that tanking does to a league, you will begin to understand why it is illegal to lose on purpose. You would not like to play my team or hundreds like it in Rookie League. You would never make any PP against a top Diamond League team in the Rookie league while you would be absolutely slaughtered every game. I am not talking about teams with Live Perfects, but teams with the best cards. If one of these teams was in your league, they could buy another top player at the end of the week from the PP.

Now watching streams on Twitch can teach you how to play the game in a competitive manner. It can teach you what cards are actually worth playing as you learn the nuances of the game. While you are learning, you get the chance to win a few packs. These packs will not make you a 1927 Yankee juggernaut. They will help you build your team without spending dollars. And believe me you will be playing against players that have spent megabucks. So, enjoy the streams, earn a few packs, and have fun.. Or don't watch them. It is up to you in this sand box.

Thanks for the post.

I keep repeating this since I want to make sure all understand that I don't do any of it, and at the same time have nothing against teams that do.. Its a very competitive game, and I enjoy the competiveness, and want no rules to be changed.

My whole discussion topic that this point is simply what is one rule break viewed as evil, and another rule break praised and encouraged. They are both rule breaks that manipulate the game.

I agree a player can play however they want, but if a team tanks and gets caught they are ridiculed or potentially kicked out of the game. That doesn't seem like the game or community would let someone play how they want. Along with this, watching twitch is a great asset, but again has nothing to do with actually playing the game, outside from it gives players packs that they can use to manipulate the game and the market.

Again... I am not talking about a Diamond team tanking to get to rookie ball.... I'm talking about a stone team of 70's and 80's rating that wants to build up their stats to create a team that can succeed against stone league. Again analogy that a AA team is vied as evil for them sending a player back down to A, because that player isn't strong enough for AA, but destroys A.

I have thought about why tanking is against the rules, and understand why the rule is in place. But again, why is this viewed worse than gaining perks from an outside source, or even pay to play? Twitch, is likely an amazing asset, but has absolutely nothing to do with the standard gameplay, even pay to play has nothing to do with standard gameplay. Tanking, twitch, pay to play are all ways that a player doesn't want to do the grind to help them succeed by the standard gameplay. All of them are manipulation of the standard game play. Again, I have no issues with any of them but don't do any of them. Perfect team is a great game!

Twitch may not make a team a juggernaut overnight, depending on what cards they get. On outside source grants players cards to help cards that could help improve their team, or sell to gain extra PP, or us cards to help complete missions. Great avenue to succeed, but its an outside source that manipulates the game in favor of the player who do it.

To close out.... My main point is why are both rule breaks viewed very differently?

Thanks for the post

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by rburgh

The base level PT game is active for about 300 days, from initial release through the end of the calendar year.

In that 300 days, you will get 370 packs from login rewards.

If you buy PT+ for 10 months, you will get another 370 packs from login rewards.

If you average 30K PP's per week, 300 days is about 43 weeks. So in that time period, if you know how to generate PP's from in-game achievement awards, you can earn 1,290,000 PP's.

So, by doing nothing except cutting your smoking by a few packs of cigs a month, or your drinking by cutting back a six-pack of beer as month, you can end the 300 day window with 740 packs and 1.29 million PP's.

In order to position yourself to have the opportunity to make your team relevant for the last 65 days of the OOTP year, you probably need to have opened about 5000 packs and have about 5 million PP's on hand to buy the top end cards.

So the problem is, how can a user generate over 4000 packs so that he has a chance to be competitive at the highest level?

Well, watching twitch streams and collecting the pack drops will earn you 50 or more packs a week. 50 x 43 is 2150, so you can achieve more than half of the remaining pack shortfall simply by logging in to the various OOTP streams. Note that you don't actually have to watch them, you can simply check in every 15 minutes or so to claim your most recent drop.

You can generate a lot of PP's by speculating on the monthly revaluation of cards. There are streams to help you with that, but a much simpler way to play this is to just buy up to 10 of every live iron and bronze who is likely to play well enough to progress to the silver level or higher. I set a buy level for irons at 7-8 and bronzes at 28 or so.

Once you buy up to 10, cards of those players you pull from packs are added to your total. In mid-November, you simply go through your live card inventory and quicksell all of the unlocked silver and higher live cards you own. YMMV, but experienced players confidently expect to earn 5 million + PP's.

This strategy will also help you complete next year's version of the PT Elite missions, which will give you at least a half dozen of the meta open team cards.

You can also enter tournaments, to win packs and Tournament Edition historical cards. None of this is more expensive than the PT+ subscriptions, and as you see they're not really a big contributor to the ultimate goal.

I enjoy the different direction of this post, and I appreciate a different view. I understand that twitch helps players be more competitive, but again it is an outside source that has nothing to do with the game play, that helps manipulate the game. I figured there are people potentially many who don't actually watch the twitch stream and simply have it playing in the background to gain their perks.

Again appreciate the insight/different perspective, but my post has nothing to do with myself or other players becoming more competitive. I actually stopped playing shortly after I realized that I had bought 24 close to when 25 was coming out. Perfect team isn't a hard game to figure out how to succeed. It takes a lot of grind in game grind to gain packs, buy cards to complete missions to gain great players/packs, etc. Its a great game and I enjoy greatly.

I understand that a player can succeed by not doing twitch. In 21 version of the game I did very well, because I took the time in game to help me succeed. But I would argue that 3000 additional packs a year seems like it would help a team succeed, can greatly help team succeed especially early game.

Again main discussion is how people don't see twitch streaming as just as bad as a AA team purposefully sending themselves back down to A. Both are rule breaks, but the one that stick entirely to the game play is viewed as evil, and the outside source manipulation isn't.

Thanks again for the post. Again, I enjoy Perfect team, and will succeed in 25 (if I buy, still contemplating) without twitch, or pay to play, or tanking. I want no rule change, simply interested on why twitch isn't viewed as a rule break and viewed as manipulation, when it very much is.

Thanks for post!

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

I played once against a cousin from out of state who was decently (but far from GM) rated and won...proudest chess moment of my life...

but to have the opportunity to play against a guy who once played for all the marbles...man, that would be so amazingly incredible, just for the learning experience alone...and the bragging rights. To wit, "I'm 0-1 against guys who played for World Champion." Congrats!

Chess is a wonderful competitive game! I enjoy it greatly.

[PunishedF2P]

Originally Posted by rburgh

ou can generate a lot of PP's by speculating on the monthly revaluation of cards.... YMMV, but experienced players confidently expect to earn 5 million + PP's.

Co-sign 100%. With minimal effort, 2-3 million PP earned over the course of the updates is easily attainable by anyone who puts a bit of focus on it.

5-6 million if you prioritize it. I was about 6 million PP this year.

In PT23 I made about 12 million PP on updates - I'd say that's probably maxxing it out as I was saving every live card from the beginning of the year unless I thought they were going to go down or they hit perfect. So by the final update I had 25+ of multiple guys that went perfect. The final update alone netted me 5 million+ in PT23.

I'd also emphasize that the value of playing tournaments cannot be overstated: I play only weekly and daily tournaments, and in the past week, I've made about 250K in profits from TB4-6 choice packs (so not including the second TB1-3 pack into the calculation here - that's easily another 75-100K) along with getting 70 standard packs as rewards for lower places (70K value).

And that's also without including my weekly PD win which got me Buster Posey last week (650K value), since that's a rarer event that won't happen every week.

A million in PP value per month combining tourney cards and pack rewards is not unreasonable to expect. And this doesn't take any kind of spamming of tournaments. I get on a few times a day and click 'sign up' on the next available daily/weekly tourneys that I most prefer.

The game actually gives a lot of ways to legitimately compete for F2P or low-spending players. Of course, the guys who spend money can do all these things, too (and most do).

Bottom line, shooting for a Perfect League championship / PTCS championship, Top 25 overall team, etc. as a F2P player is doable, and it doesn't require money or even a large time investment. What it does require is playing with good strategies and understanding the nuances of the game.

I don't even have a Twitch drop link, so I don't take advantage of that at all - but as others have pointed out, that's another 2000 free packs, with a decent number of those being silver packs as well. 2 million + in PP value - and it's very easy. You can open up Twitch, put it on mute in the background while you do other things, and just click over to it now and again to collect your packs.

Taking just these strategies, and putting them in the 'reasonably successful category,' looks like this:

Updates: 3 million free PP over the year
Tournaments: 500K per month in rewards = 5 million free PP in 10 months
Twitch packs: 1K packs (half of what's available) = 1 million+ PP (silver packs bring the value over 1 million)

That's 9 million PP over 10 months doing these at a reasonable level. Enough for anyone to be a competitive player. And all of these are at around half of what a good player who commits himself can do - meaning 18+ million PP over the year is a reachable goal.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by PunishedF2P

Co-sign 100%. With minimal effort, 2-3 million PP earned over the course of the updates is easily attainable by anyone who puts a bit of focus on it.

5-6 million if you prioritize it. I was about 6 million PP this year.

In PT23 I made about 12 million PP on updates - I'd say that's probably maxxing it out as I was saving every live card from the beginning of the year unless I thought they were going to go down or they hit perfect. So by the final update I had 25+ of multiple guys that went perfect. The final update alone netted me 5 million+ in PT23.

I'd also emphasize that the value of playing tournaments cannot be overstated: I play only weekly and daily tournaments, and in the past week, I've made about 250K in profits from TB4-6 choice packs (so not including the second TB1-3 pack into the calculation here - that's easily another 75-100K) along with getting 70 standard packs as rewards for lower places (70K value).

And that's also without including my weekly PD win which got me Buster Posey last week (650K value), since that's a rarer event that won't happen every week.

A million in PP value per month combining tourney cards and pack rewards is not unreasonable to expect. And this doesn't take any kind of spamming of tournaments. I get on a few times a day and click 'sign up' on the next available daily/weekly tourneys that I most prefer.

The game actually gives a lot of ways to legitimately compete for F2P or low-spending players. Of course, the guys who spend money can do all these things, too (and most do).

Bottom line, shooting for a Perfect League championship / PTCS championship, Top 25 overall team, etc. as a F2P player is doable, and it doesn't require money or even a large time investment. What it does require is playing with good strategies and understanding the nuances of the game.

I don't even have a Twitch drop link, so I don't take advantage of that at all - but as others have pointed out, that's another 2000 free packs, with a decent number of those being silver packs as well. 2 million + in PP value - and it's very easy. You can open up Twitch, put it on mute in the background while you do other things, and just click over to it now and again to collect your packs.

Taking just these strategies, and putting them in the 'reasonably successful category,' looks like this:

Updates: 3 million free PP over the year
Tournaments: 500K per month in rewards = 5 million free PP in 10 months
Twitch packs: 1K packs (half of what's available) = 1 million+ PP (silver packs bring the value over 1 million)

That's 9 million PP over 10 months doing these at a reasonable level. Enough for anyone to be a competitive player. And all of these are at around half of what a good player who commits himself can do - meaning 18+ million PP over the year is a reachable goal.

Thanks for post and new points..

I stated previously that in 21 I did very well in only maybe a month or two of playing. I got up several leagues, don't remember where I finished. That said. All of which was sticking solely to the game play, card shop, tournaments. my point isn't that it is impossible for players to succeed in the game, I know they can. I don't even want to get rid of twitch packs or pay to play, as it generates more people excited about the game.

My whole point my last posts has been how Twitch is not viewed in negative light for being an outside source that manipulates the game in favor of the people who get packs for them. There is a specific rule, posted above that proves that twitch packs breaks the rules, but it is encouraged. But player that purposefully drops down one level is viewed as the devil and hurts the game. Both are breaking the rules, one is viewed terribly, the other is praised and encouraged. I'm simply intrigued why this is.

[eMLBCommish]

Some y'all have way too much to complain about....

[kazamiyukarin]

Originally Posted by eMLBCommish

Some y'all have way too much to complain about....

They'd have a lot more fun if they watched our streams instead.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by eMLBCommish

Some y'all have way too much to complain about....

Again... I have nothing wrong with the game. I think Perfect team is a great game and I want nothing to change.

I'm simply interested on people's mindsets. Why is one broken rule (purposefully tanking to drop a level) is viewed as terrible, and the other broken rule (getting packs from an outside source that manipulates the game and has nothing to do with gameplay) is encouraged and praised.

Not a complaint, I'm sorry if anything I've said has been interpreted this way, even when I've said several times throughout post I have no problem with any of it happening, and want no rules to change. I have no quarrels with the game, simply trying to get an understanding of people's mindset.

I think discussion is important for growth. I get great deal of fun with discussion, up to the point where people start attacking, which this post has stayed peaceful thus far, and hope it remains this way. I see no attack from this post, but am concerned this post may start to decrease the peacefulness of the discussion, which I hope it doesn't. I would not have more fun watching twitch, as I don't even want to have twitch.

So far, I've gotten an answer for why tanking is bad, which I understood long ago. But thus far, nobody has answered why Twitch is encouraged and praised when it is clearly breaking the rules of the game. I personally think that twitch is breaking the rules just as much as tanking (dropping one level, not several levels) does.

That is simply me stating that it breaks the rules. I don't care that it breaks the rules, and I enjoy that it give people an avenue to learn and help them be more competitive in the game.

The whole intention of the post has shifted to why do players have such a problem with tanking, but not twitch even if they are both things that breaks the rules.

Again, not designed as a complaint, simple discussion.

Thanks for post!

[Kushiel]

I will try this explanation.

Twitch is used by OOTP as a source of information for players. It brings both interest and understanding to the game. Twitch streams are not only endorsed by OOTP but actually hosted by OOTP in many cases. Perhaps you should look at it like OOTP does and not see Twitch as an outside source. Businesses work together to improve both their bottom lines. Being involved with and accepted by OOTP makes Twitch not an outside source but a tool accepted by OOTP for players to have in their toolbox.

I am sorry but I am beginning to think that you are here trying to play devil's advocate because you truly want everyone to be bound by your own self-imposed limits. You keep saying that you like it as is, but you keep trying to nitpick a particular rule. The bottom line is that Twitch drops are OK because OOTP says they are.

Have a good time and enjoy the game.


Edit: If you have OOPT25 and play PT, next week you will see why us little people need drops and appreciate the opportunity to get them.

[TwinsFan86]

Originally Posted by Samueltbaum

So far, I've gotten an answer for why tanking is bad, which I understood long ago. But thus far, nobody has answered why Twitch is encouraged and praised when it is clearly breaking the rules of the game. I personally think that twitch is breaking the rules just as much as tanking (dropping one level, not several levels) does.

That is simply me stating that it breaks the rules. I don't care that it breaks the rules, and I enjoy that it give people an avenue to learn and help them be more competitive in the game.

The whole intention of the post has shifted to why do players have such a problem with tanking, but not twitch even if they are both things that breaks the rules.

Again, not designed as a complaint, simple discussion.

Thanks for post!

Because getting drops from Twitch isn’t breaking the rules. It is a legitimate method in which OOTPD has decided to distribute packs to the player base. It’s not any different than buying PP, completing missions, or getting a card from the shop. Purposely not fielding a competitive team is very different than any of those other methods.

[Samueltbaum]

Originally Posted by Kushiel

I will try this explanation.

Twitch is used by OOTP as a source of information for players. It brings both interest and understanding to the game. Twitch streams are not only endorsed by OOTP but actually hosted by OOTP in many cases. Perhaps you should look at it like OOTP does and not see Twitch as an outside source. Businesses work together to improve both their bottom lines. Being involved with and accepted by OOTP makes Twitch not an outside source but a tool accepted by OOTP for players to have in their toolbox.

I am sorry but I am beginning to think that you are here trying to play devil's advocate because you truly want everyone to be bound by your own self-imposed limits. You keep saying that you like it as is, but you keep trying to nitpick a particular rule. The bottom line is that Twitch drops are OK because OOTP says they are.

Have a good time and enjoy the game.

Edit: If you have OOPT25 and play PT, next week you will see why us little people need drops and appreciate the opportunity to get them.

Thank you!

I've only said that I don't think any of it is breaking the rules several times because I truly don't and want to make that clear. I'm sorry if it has been interpreted any other way. I have put $$$ into games before, I have gotten codes for games before, and I have played games where people tanked all the time without anyone getting upset about. It is a natural way people develop when they are not strong enough for the next level. But in OOTP people who do this are the devil. I have done all three of them before with games outside of OOTP. And had no issue with any of them, just like I have no issue with any of them in OOTP. All three of them very much manipulate the gameplay in favor of whoever used them, but none of it was frowned upon in the games. That is why I am so intrigued that there is written rules that show that tanking and twitch drops are breaking the rules. But people get up in arms about the tanking but not the Twitch...

This post has become more about getting an understanding of peoples mindsets on why they think one rule break is wrong and another isn't. Not about me wanting to change anything about it, because I don't It is a great game!

First I will try to quickly present thought of your post, then have deeper reason of my posts, and explain why I truly don't care how people play. I agree people should enjoy the game how they want to.

I gathered a while ago that Twitch and OOTP are partners. They make each other $$$$$$$ so they are friends with one another. If the rule didn't state outside source or standard gameplay, I wouldn't have thought anything of it. Twitch packs are not standard game play. Standard game play is tournaments, actual leagues, card shop, etc. (I've written rules for real life tournaments and leagues before, that is why these rules intrigued me, I'm the guy that people come to to clarify the rules, because nobody else read the rules). OOTP is kind of like a movie theatre.... Twitch is like kind of the candy store next door. that the movie theatre is partnered with. Don't bring in food from outside unless it is form the candy store next door. At one point both places realized they could help each other make $$$$$$$, and naturally most thing in life/games are about making $$$$$$$$$. That candy store is still and outside source though, OOTP simply hasn't said that the all stores except for Twitch.

Now is where I explain my thoughts of why I've discussed this. The main focus wasn't the rule itself, it is simply why people disregard the rule and it is encouraged. I don't care about that rule or even twitch itself. More power to the people who want to do it, I hope it helps them succeed, it seems like great avenue to assist people. Why do people get so upset and storm the fences if someone not strong enough to compete in stone league tanks to get back down to Rookie? It is literally a legit way for people to develop new skills (in real life). Mike Trout isn't ready for the bigs yet, send him back down to the Minors. If OOTP says Twitch is ok, than they should add it to the rules. When I develop guidelines/handbooks/etc. I go over them and have others go over them several times to make sure all rules are clear and covered. Each year I'd make sure to read it again to potentially make any adjustments. So that there would be no questioning the rules. Sadly the phrase "because I said so doesn't work"

Perfect team is a great game and I want no rule changes to it. I don't even care if they reword it to include twitch, I'm simply intrigued how nobody see's what I see. This whole thing became more about an understanding of peoples mindsets

As far as manipulating the game I think Tanking, Pay to Play and Twitch do it and to a degree are harmful to the standard game play But harmful in the sense that at a lose weight camp someone sneaks in a donuts, and someone else sneaks in twinkies. Both are in the laws of things to not have, but people are eating the donuts while angry at the people who brought the twinkies. I like twinkies and donuts, but if I was at that camp, I wouldn't touch either, or have a problem with people touching either. People have the same right to be at the camp as I do, but would be greatly intrigued in why people were so upset about the twinkies, when they had no problem with the donuts.

I truly want nothing to change with Perfect Team. I think it is a great game with a great community.

I hope this post made it more clear my intention of the posts.

Everyone play the game and enjoy it how they want