Thread for player identification in team photos

[cinemaodyssey]

Originally Posted by prewinter

Here are details on players from the early season roster of the club.

Awesome research! I'll see if I have any images for those players. I'm still looking into the possibility of this being the 1891 team as well.

[prewinter]

What to make of this, besides that someone was very confused?
https://lelands.com/bids/circa-1890-...-cabinet-photo

[cinemaodyssey]

Originally Posted by prewinter

What to make of this, besides that someone was very confused?
https://lelands.com/bids/circa-1890-...-cabinet-photo

Yeah there was a reason I cropped that out haha

[rlumpkin1@tampabay.rr.com]

Can anyone I'd anyone in this team photo of 1970 Clinton Pilots? Thank you to any response.

[prewinter]

Originally Posted by rlumpkin1@tampabay.rr.com

Can anyone I'd anyone in this team photo of 1970 Clinton Pilots? Thank you to any response.

I reached out to the sports department at the Clinton Herald, which has been around forever. I'm hoping they have something in their archives that could help.

[rlumpkin1@tampabay.rr.com]

Originally Posted by prewinter

I reached out to the sports department at the Clinton Herald, which has been around forever. I'm hoping they have something in their archives that could help.

Thank you.

[UKBaseballfan]

The 1909 Reds team photo updated to include identifications provided below by cinemaodyssey

Identifications are :-

Back Row (l-r)

Campbell, Pearce, Autry, Rowan, Dubuc, Egan, Hulswitt, Ewing, McLean, Downey, Fromme, Savidge, Karger, Mitchell, Huggins, Gaspar

Middle Row

Paskert, Wacker, Griffith, Hoblitzel, Ragan, Mowrey, Moriarty, Bescher

Ground

Oakes, O'Toole, Lobert, Roth

[UKBaseballfan]

A version was recently posted on the current Love Of The Game Auction.

Previously identifications suggested was as follows including 1 unidentified player ;-

Top row (l-r)

Vail, ?, Leever, Kennedy, Bransfield, Poole, Phelps, Wagner, Smith

Middle row

Doheny, Merritt, Phillippe, Dreyfuss, Sebring, Powell

Bottom row

Ritchey, Krueger, Clarke, Beaumont, Leach

The new Auction posting has the identifications attached and makes 2 corrections as well as identifying the missing player. These modifications are :-

Unidentified player - Kane
Top row player between Bransfield and Phelps is Wilhelm not Poole
Middle Row player on right of row is Falkenberg not Powell

[cinemaodyssey]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

The 1909 Reds team photo currently has 4 unidentified players.

Identifications are :-

Back Row (l-r)

Campbell, Pearce, Autry, Rowan, Dubuc, Egan, Hulswitt, Ewing, McLean, Downey, Fromme, ?, Karger, Mitchell, Huggins, Gaspar

Middle Row

Paskert, ?, Griffith, Hoblitzel, Ragan, Mowrey, ?, Bescher

Ground

Oakes, ?, Lobert, Roth

Candidates for the unidentified players are suggested:

Top Row (between Fromme and Karger) - Bill Moriarty
Middle Row (between Paskert and Griffith) - Ward Miller
Middle Row (between Mowrey and Bescher) - Tommy Clarke
Bottom Row (between Oakes and Lobert) - Roy Ellam

Alternate suggestions or confirmation gratefully received.

From the Los Angeles Evening Express of 4/19/09 the IDs are:

Top Row, L-R: Billy Campbell, Ducky Pearce, Chick Autry, Jack Rowan, Jean Dubuc, Dick Egan, Rudy Hulswitt, Bob Ewing, Larry McLean, Tom Downey, Art Fromme, Ralph Savidge, Ed Karger, Mike Mitchell, Miller Huggins, Harry Gaspar
Middle Row, L-R: Dode Paskert, Jimmy Wacker, Clark Griffith, Dick Hoblitzel, Pat Ragan, Mike Mowrey, Bill Moriarty, Bob Bescher
Bottom Row, L-R: Rebel Oakes, Marty O'Toole, Hans Lobert, Frank Roth

[cinemaodyssey]

This one is from the collection of the Library of Congress but I've been unable to locate identifications for all the players in my newspaper searches. I'm curious if anyone else has any additional information on it.

[UKBaseballfan]

Thank you for correcting my suggestions for the unidentified players in the Reds team photo!

Here is another group photo of the 1912 Pirates but this time wearing the uniform of the year. Likewise I am not aware of the identifications of the players being made aware.

Thanks to RUKen whose research, below, indicates that this image originates from Spring Training 1913

Suggested identifications

Top Row (l-r)

Wilbur Cooper, Alex McCarthy, Howie Camnitz, Bobby Byrne, Hank Robinson, Fred Clarke, Mike Simon, Ed Mensor, Jim Viox, Joe Conzelman, Marty O'Toole, George Eastman

Middle Row

Billy Kelly, Claude Hendrix, Dots Miller, Max Carey, George Gibson, Babe Adams, Chief Wilson, Ham Hyatt, Al Mamaux, Jake Holderman, Fred Schuessler, Jack Ferry, Rivington Bisland

Bottom Row

Honus Wagner, Everett Booe, Solly Hofman, Bill Joyce, Art Butler, Wally Rehg, Stan Gray, Butts Wagner, Ralph Capron, Charlie Miller

Additions, Corrections and Validations gratefully received.

[UKBaseballfan]

A 3rd group image this time restricted to 9 players, but again no identifications provided. Should one assume that each position is represented? Maybe, the best one to work on first.

Identifications as provided by RUKen below, whose research indicates that the image dates from Spring Training 1913.

Top Row (l-r)

George Eastman, Ham Hyatt, Jim Viox, Rivington Bisland

Bottom Row

Bobby Byrne, Dots Miller, Honus Wagner, Art Butler, Alex McCarthy

[Cod]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

A 3rd group image this time restricted to 9 players, but again no identifications provided. Should one assume that each position is represented? Maybe, the best one to work on first.

The only one I recognize at first glance is Wagner (front and center). I could probably identify most of them, just need some time.

EDIT: I posted the picture and asked the question in a dead ball research group I'm a member of. I'll let you know if I hear anything back.

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by Cod

The only one I recognize at first glance is Wagner (front and center). I could probably identify most of them, just need some time.

EDIT: I posted the picture and asked the question in a dead ball research group I'm a member of. I'll let you know if I hear anything back.

Thank you any assistance is most welcome. If it is the site I think it is maybe it will attract bmarlowe's attention.

As a first step suggestions posted for identifications on both of the 2 uniformed images.

The first spring training Arkansas image posted of the 1912 Pirates is discussed on the net54baseball.com forum. Follow this link https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?p=1776881

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

A 3rd group image this time restricted to 9 players, but again no identifications provided. Should one assume that each position is represented? Maybe, the best one to work on first.

Suggested Identifications

Top Row (l-r)

Art Butler, Claude Hendrix, Tommy Leach, George Gibson

Bottom Row

Bobby Byrne, Dots Miller, Honus Wagner, Chief Wilson, Alex McCarthy

Corrections or confirmations gratefully received

A photo-shopped version (if I may use that term for a Deadball Era image) was printed in the Pittsburgh Daily Post on March 27th, 1913. The players were in spring training, wearing 1912 uniforms. IDs are given in the caption.

Rear row: Ham Hyatt, Jimmie Viox, Rivington Bisland.
Middle row: George Eastman, Honus Wagner, Artie Butler, Alex McCarthy.
Bottom row: Bobby Byrne, Dots Miller.

In the original photo, Byrne and Miller are sitting to the left of Wagner, and Eastman is standing next to Hyatt.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

Here is another group photo of the 1912 Pirates but this time wearing the uniform of the year. Likewise I am not aware of the identifications of the players being made aware.

Suggested identifications

Top Row (l-r)

Wilbur Cooper, Alex McCarthy, Howie Camnitz, Bobby Byrne, Lefty Leifield, Fred Clarke, Mike Simon, Bill McKechnie, Jim Viox, King Cole, Marty O'Toole, Art Butler

Middle Row

Billy Kelly, ?, Dots Miller, Max Carey, George Gibson, Babe Adams, Chief Wilson, Claude Hendrix, Tommy Leach, Mike Donlin, Hank Robinson, Ovid Nicholson, Bill (Stump) Edington

Bottom Row

Honus Wagner, Al Mamaux (dnp), Solly Hofman, Sherry Smith, Ed Mensor, Ed Warner, Ham Hyatt, Butts Wagner (dnp), Wally Rehg, Stan Gray

Additions, Corrections and Validations gratefully received.

I am fairly certain that this image also dates from spring training in 1913, though I have not found it published in a Pittsburgh newspaper of that time. Ham Hyatt is in the middle row with his shirt unbuttoned, as it is in the photo of the nine infielders that I had just provided IDs for, and Artie Butler is in the middle of the bottom row, looking to his right, as he is in the infielders' photo. George Eastman is on the far right of the top row, a match with his image in the group of nine. Hank Robinson is the tall player just left of Fred Clarke in the rear. I believe that Ed Mensor is two to the right of Clarke in the rear, and it could be Rivington Bisland just left of Eastman, second from the right in the top row. I suggest Claude Hendrix directly behind Wagner, Everett Booe sitting next to Wagner in front, and Wally Rehg just right of Hyatt in the middle row. The inclusion of Booe and Eastman, if I am correct, would confirm that this is a 1913 image. (Eastman, who never played a major league game, only trained with the Pirates in 1913.)

[Cod]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

Thank you any assistance is most welcome. If it is the site I think it is maybe it will attract bmarlowe's attention.

As a first step suggestions posted for identifications on both of the 2 uniformed images.

The first spring training Arkansas image posted of the 1912 Pirates is discussed on the net54baseball.com forum. Follow this link https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?p=1776881

I got some potential answers for you:

• Back row far right - Max Carey
• Back row second left - Billy Kelly
• Front row lower left - Howie Camnitz
• Front row far right - Fred Clarke

Of course, we aren't 100% on these. And we discussed Clarke for a while as he looked much older in 1912 based on other photos.

[UKBaseballfan]

Originally Posted by RUKen

I am fairly certain that this image also dates from spring training in 1913, though I have not found it published in a Pittsburgh newspaper of that time. Ham Hyatt is in the middle row with his shirt unbuttoned, as it is in the photo of the nine infielders that I had just provided IDs for, and Artie Butler is in the middle of the bottom row, looking to his right, as he is in the infielders' photo. George Eastman is on the far right of the top row, a match with his image in the group of nine. Hank Robinson is the tall player just left of Fred Clarke in the rear. I believe that Ed Mensor is two to the right of Clarke in the rear, and it could be Rivington Bisland just left of Eastman, second from the right in the top row. I suggest Claude Hendrix directly behind Wagner, Everett Booe sitting next to Wagner in front, and Wally Rehg just right of Hyatt in the middle row. The inclusion of Booe and Eastman, if I am correct, would confirm that this is a 1913 image. (Eastman, who never played a major league game, only trained with the Pirates in 1913.)

I am more than happy to embrace the concept that the 2 images in the 1912 uniform date from Spring Training 1913. Thank you so much for that and the identifications you propose. I have taken on board the transactions page for 1913 and 1912 in B-R. This informs us that McQuillan was obtained midway through the 1913 season, so taking that on face value he is unlikely to be in the image as the uniforms were not retained in 1913. Personally I prefer Bisland at the extreme right of the second row but am happy to be overruled.

Access to 1913 spring training box scores from the Sporting News, Life and local Pittsburgh newspapers should enable us to consolidate on the identifications and who is likely to be present.

I wonder why the uniform was abandoned after just one year. Would love to hear from Pirates fans on that. Surely it would be for practical not aesthetic reasons as to my eyes it is the trademark uniform from a golden Pirates era.

Thank you for the image you provided which clarifies the identification of the 9 players in the third photo.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

I am more than happy to embrace the concept that the 2 images in the 1912 uniform date from Spring Training 1913. Thank you so much for that and the identifications you propose. I have taken on board the transactions page for 1913 and 1912 in B-R. This informs us that McQuillan was obtained midway through the 1913 season, so taking that on face value he is unlikely to be in the image as the uniforms were not retained in 1913. Personally I prefer Bisland at the extreme right of the second row but am happy to be overruled.

Access to 1913 spring training box scores from the Sporting News, Life and local Pittsburgh newspapers should enable us to consolidate on the identifications and who is likely to be present.

I wonder why the uniform was abandoned after just one year. Would love to hear from Pirates fans on that. Surely it would be for practical not aesthetic reasons as to my eyes it is the trademark uniform from a golden Pirates era.

Thank you for the image you provided which clarifies the identification of the 9 players in the third photo.

I agree 100% about McQuillan. I had revised my initial response repeatedly for a couple of hours, and it seems that you had read it when I had placed McQuillan next to Hyatt in the middle row, instead of Rehg, who did not play for Pittsburgh in 1913. Eventually, after seeing a few more newspaper accounts, I realized that Rehg had been in training with the team, but McQuillan had not, and that McQuillan was not connected with the Pirates until the middle of the season. The final version of my response, which you have quoted, suggests Rehg rather than McQuillan in the middle row.

I see that you have Rehg in the bottom row, and I think that is a plausible alternative to my selection. I agree now with your placement of Rivington Bisland on the far right of the middle row. (He has one of the best names I've yet encountered among old baseball players--I would have thought he was a character from the Frank Merriwell stories rather than an actual ballplayer.)

[UKBaseballfan]

The April 3rd 1913 edition of the Pittsburgh Press lists the final Spring batting averages for the Pirates including some 'unknowns' and some surprises. Reuther is listed but I can't find Dutch Ruether in the image. Also players by the names of Holderman, C. Miller and Senuessler. C. MIller could be either Charlier Miller or Chuck Miller.