Ticket Price Changes in OOTP 24 and Impact on Online Leagues

tailgtr24 · 08-07-2023, 01:55 PM

Hello,

I've attached a screenshot of my accounting tab from an online league that I have been in for many years.

The only change between 2067 and 2068 for my team was the switch to OOTP 24 and the unexplained (but acknowledged) change to ticket prices. I have seen ootp developers acknowledge a change occurred but have not explained what it is or why the change was made in the first place. These type of changes impact teams and online leagues. From what I have gathered with these exchanges with the OOTP developers, if a team has a ticket price that is deemed "too high" compared to the rest of the league then their attendance will drastically be reduced.

My fan interest is actually higher in 2068, and for the 2067 season I averaged over $75 per ticket. For 2068, I lowered my ticket price from the average amount, and was stunned to see after season tickets locked that I was projected to sell 39.4% less than the previous year. I have been able to identify a dollar amount that has increased my avg attendance to "normal" levels, however that amount is at $59 per ticket vs the avg of over $75 the previous season.

Why is this a problem? Look at my revenue from 2067 at $291,305,305 and compare to the projected revenue for 2068 of $189,449,692. Yes, for 2068 it does not project any playoff revenue, but if we remove the playoff revenue the point is still the same. With playoff revenue removed, the 2067 regular season revenue was $251,458,661. I understand that team revenues fluctuate, but dropping over $101 mil in one season at no fault of that team is a problem.

Most teams in leagues will not see this as an issue for their individual team because it only seems to be impacting the teams that were on the top end of avg ticket prices. I've attached from Stats Lab the data from 2067 and 2068. Some teams have noticed the change and have tried to adjust their ticket prices to somewhat salvage, but the impact is clear. If the intent was take revenue away from top teams, then where is the money going? Increases to revenue sharing and luxury tax would seem to be better adjustments to address that issue.

Now, teams that have effectively planned and increased revenue over many years are now trying to figure out how to balance their budgets and cut players. The other teams in the league didn't get revenue increases, so they cannot even take those players and their contracts. I've personally grown my franchise (Cincinnati) into one of the highest budgets in the league. I have contracts, and team building in the future based on revenue projected on a ticket price that has now drastically changed.

Please explain the rationale in making this change to ticket prices and their impact on revenue. What are teams impacted by this change expected to do? Can this please be revisited by the developers and discussed again?

Thanks!

jcalhoun7 · 08-28-2023, 04:28 PM

I second this! Having the same issue in my online league.

Domeshot17 · 08-28-2023, 06:37 PM

Third this. Big issue in my league, and also noticing that the game no longer factors cash into money available for extensions.

jw1952tx · 08-29-2023, 04:06 PM

If any leagues have come up with a solution to this please post here. I know a couple of leagues looking at this right now.

GruntsVW · 08-29-2023, 10:58 PM

Yeah this is a huge problem for our league and definitely want OOTP to address this .. honestly it's bad form and completely disrespectful to online leagues to ignore this problem!

LansdowneSt · 08-30-2023, 12:13 AM

I reckon it came from this post:

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=339523

See post 33 but also watch the video on post 19. As a temp fix, give everyone more Media Revenue or something to get through the year. Make it pro rata to last year's gate revenue for fairness or something. Just a thought. Tough situation.

Matt Arnold · 08-30-2023, 01:47 AM

It was determined that teams being able to double or more the average ticket price, without seeing a significant reduction in attendance, was unbalanced. If a mid-market team in real life raised their ticket prices to be significantly higher than the rest of the league, they would suffer some serious consequences.

If that's not fair in your online league, I would suggest discussing it with the rest of the league members, and trying to come to a solution. You could add more media revenue, or adjust team market sizes, or even just have the commish give teams a "loan" or something for a few years to bridge the finances.

The_Niddler · 08-31-2023, 08:39 AM

I am not trying to be a jerk, but was a change like that communicated to the public?
Those types of changes, just like the cash debacle, should be communicated so that commissioners know what to look for in their online leagues.

If it was communicated, can you post where commissioners can see these changes going forward Matt?
So commissioners know where to look for those types of changes for future versions of the game.

Rain King · 08-31-2023, 10:54 AM

They post a change list for every new version and patch.

It could certainly be more detailed for the complicated and/or more under the hood changes though.

Here is the list from the 24 release.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=344827

There is a similar list in the thread for each patch.

tailgtr24 · 01-07-2024, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

It was determined that teams being able to double or more the average ticket price, without seeing a significant reduction in attendance, was unbalanced. If a mid-market team in real life raised their ticket prices to be significantly higher than the rest of the league, they would suffer some serious consequences.

If that's not fair in your online league, I would suggest discussing it with the rest of the league members, and trying to come to a solution. You could add more media revenue, or adjust team market sizes, or even just have the commish give teams a "loan" or something for a few years to bridge the finances.

I'm having trouble understanding where this was communicated to the community, as well as the reasoning behind doing it. I've attached the avg list ticket prices in mlb for this past season. Isn't the point of revenue sharing to address the reality that the top teams bring in a lot more than the rest of the league? If there was an issue, I'd think the solution would be more so on the revenue sharing side to increase those numbers instead of messing with attendance calculations. What you've effectively done is made it so teams that have built their budgets and teams up, are now handcuffed.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...e-mlb-by-team/

Here's another article about avg ticket prices.

https://financebuzz.com/baseball-ticket-prices-2023

tailgtr24 · 01-07-2024, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

It was determined that teams being able to double or more the average ticket price, without seeing a significant reduction in attendance, was unbalanced. If a mid-market team in real life raised their ticket prices to be significantly higher than the rest of the league, they would suffer some serious consequences.

If that's not fair in your online league, I would suggest discussing it with the rest of the league members, and trying to come to a solution. You could add more media revenue, or adjust team market sizes, or even just have the commish give teams a "loan" or something for a few years to bridge the finances.

Matt, as you can see from my initial report the Reds market over time has increased to Big and they have a Very Good fan loyalty rating. The change that OOTP made isn't a one league issue. It's not fair in any league, and leagues making tweaks to OOTP generally don't have too many positive outcomes over the long term.

Here's an update to where we stand now, and why the changes that were done are not working.

It's 2070 now, and the Reds ticket price is $49. Fan Interest is 100, Market is still Big and Fan Loyalty very good. $49 is the 7th highest ticket price, and after the Opening Day 7 day sim, we're at 77.3% tickets sold.

On top of this since my 2067 initial post, the Reds have won the World Series in 2068 and 2069. In what universe would a fan base not pay a premium to see a team like that? Additionally, the Reds have won 4 World Series titles in 8 seasons. It would seem like tying attendance to on field production would be a more meaningful update to a game, rather than whatever it's tied to now. What am I doing wrong? It seems like everything I've done to take a team and market like Cincinnati and make them compete against the big boys has now been erased.

08-07-2023, 01:55 PM	#1
tailgtr24 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 42	Ticket Price Changes in OOTP 24 and Impact on Online Leagues Hello, I've attached a screenshot of my accounting tab from an online league that I have been in for many years. The only change between 2067 and 2068 for my team was the switch to OOTP 24 and the unexplained (but acknowledged) change to ticket prices. I have seen ootp developers acknowledge a change occurred but have not explained what it is or why the change was made in the first place. These type of changes impact teams and online leagues. From what I have gathered with these exchanges with the OOTP developers, if a team has a ticket price that is deemed "too high" compared to the rest of the league then their attendance will drastically be reduced. My fan interest is actually higher in 2068, and for the 2067 season I averaged over $75 per ticket. For 2068, I lowered my ticket price from the average amount, and was stunned to see after season tickets locked that I was projected to sell 39.4% less than the previous year. I have been able to identify a dollar amount that has increased my avg attendance to "normal" levels, however that amount is at $59 per ticket vs the avg of over $75 the previous season. Why is this a problem? Look at my revenue from 2067 at $291,305,305 and compare to the projected revenue for 2068 of $189,449,692. Yes, for 2068 it does not project any playoff revenue, but if we remove the playoff revenue the point is still the same. With playoff revenue removed, the 2067 regular season revenue was $251,458,661. I understand that team revenues fluctuate, but dropping over $101 mil in one season at no fault of that team is a problem. Most teams in leagues will not see this as an issue for their individual team because it only seems to be impacting the teams that were on the top end of avg ticket prices. I've attached from Stats Lab the data from 2067 and 2068. Some teams have noticed the change and have tried to adjust their ticket prices to somewhat salvage, but the impact is clear. If the intent was take revenue away from top teams, then where is the money going? Increases to revenue sharing and luxury tax would seem to be better adjustments to address that issue. Now, teams that have effectively planned and increased revenue over many years are now trying to figure out how to balance their budgets and cut players. The other teams in the league didn't get revenue increases, so they cannot even take those players and their contracts. I've personally grown my franchise (Cincinnati) into one of the highest budgets in the league. I have contracts, and team building in the future based on revenue projected on a ticket price that has now drastically changed. Please explain the rationale in making this change to ticket prices and their impact on revenue. What are teams impacted by this change expected to do? Can this please be revisited by the developers and discussed again? Thanks! Attached Images Last edited by tailgtr24; 08-07-2023 at 11:38 PM.

08-28-2023, 04:28 PM	#2
jcalhoun7 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 33	I second this! Having the same issue in my online league. __________________ BSA - Vista Panthers (Commissioner) USBA - Echo Park Lakers PUB - Hollywood Stars VBL6 - Echo Park Lakers

08-30-2023, 12:13 AM	#6
LansdowneSt Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: From Duxbury, Mass residing Baltimore Posts: 7,584	I reckon it came from this post: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=339523 See post 33 but also watch the video on post 19. As a temp fix, give everyone more Media Revenue or something to get through the year. Make it pro rata to last year's gate revenue for fairness or something. Just a thought. Tough situation. __________________ Complete Universe Facegen Pack 2.0 (mine included) https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi...k_2.0.zip/file Just my Facegen Pack: https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi..._Pack.zip/file Last edited by LansdowneSt; 08-30-2023 at 12:15 AM.

08-31-2023, 08:39 AM	#8
The_Niddler Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 306	I am not trying to be a jerk, but was a change like that communicated to the public? Those types of changes, just like the cash debacle, should be communicated so that commissioners know what to look for in their online leagues. If it was communicated, can you post where commissioners can see these changes going forward Matt? So commissioners know where to look for those types of changes for future versions of the game. Last edited by The_Niddler; 08-31-2023 at 08:46 AM.

08-31-2023, 10:54 AM	#9
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,131 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	They post a change list for every new version and patch. It could certainly be more detailed for the complicated and/or more under the hood changes though. Here is the list from the 24 release. https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=344827 There is a similar list in the thread for each patch. Last edited by Rain King; 08-31-2023 at 10:56 AM.

08-28-2023, 06:37 PM	#3
Domeshot17 Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 7	Third this. Big issue in my league, and also noticing that the game no longer factors cash into money available for extensions.

08-29-2023, 04:06 PM	#4
jw1952tx Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2023 Location: Texas Posts: 6	If any leagues have come up with a solution to this please post here. I know a couple of leagues looking at this right now.

08-29-2023, 10:58 PM	#5
GruntsVW Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 85	Yeah this is a huge problem for our league and definitely want OOTP to address this .. honestly it's bad form and completely disrespectful to online leagues to ignore this problem!

08-30-2023, 01:47 AM	#7
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,860	It was determined that teams being able to double or more the average ticket price, without seeing a significant reduction in attendance, was unbalanced. If a mid-market team in real life raised their ticket prices to be significantly higher than the rest of the league, they would suffer some serious consequences. If that's not fair in your online league, I would suggest discussing it with the rest of the league members, and trying to come to a solution. You could add more media revenue, or adjust team market sizes, or even just have the commish give teams a "loan" or something for a few years to bridge the finances.