short-term vs long-term injuries...???

thehef · 11-03-2023, 04:25 AM

I was goofing around with a 1985 historical game... My settings for injuries included:

Short Injury Frequency = Normal (OOTP Classic)
Long Injury Frequency = None allowed

Yet Bill Russell on Aug 4th was given a 13-month injury (some sort of burn on his hand)... IDK what OOTP considers short-term vs long-term, but I would think that by any reasonable measure, 13 months is a long-term injury. Am I wrong?

Perhaps strangely, when I look at the League Injuries Report, in addition to a few players here and there with the expected day-to-day and other short-term injuries, I see four other players with 13-week injuries. Not 10- and not 12- and not 15- or any other term, but 13-week injuries.

To be clear, I do not have Real Injuries (nor Real Lineups) selected. And even if I did, these "injuries" do not correspond to real life.

Any ideas as to what's going on?

David Watts · 11-03-2023, 07:27 AM

The Russell thing almost sounds like a storyline, but I have to figure you have those turned off. How could a guy burn his hand playing baseball? Must be a really bad burn to miss 13 months.

Sweed · 11-03-2023, 08:38 AM

There are also random "at home" injuries that can happen with story lines turned off. My closer missed three months of my latest season due to an injury sustained while riding a motorcycle.

David Watts · 11-03-2023, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweed

There are also random "at home" injuries that can happen with story lines turned off. My closer missed three months of my latest season due to an injury sustained while riding a motorcycle.

Yes, I forgot about that. I'm wondering if that type of deal happens with total disregard to the injury setting selected?

Sweed · 11-03-2023, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

Yes, I forgot about that. I'm wondering if that type of deal happens with total disregard to the injury setting selected?

I've wondered that too, but have no idea what the answer is. Having said that, before this season, I can't remember the last time I had one of these happen to one of my players and I run with "realistic high" injuries.

Does that mean anything? IDK.. ???

thehef · 11-03-2023, 02:28 PM

I guess I'm wondering if it's a bug. Sure seems like it to me because...

- Long-term injuries were set to "none allowed" and 13 months does not seem to fit the definition of "short-term"
- Out of approximately 15 league-wide injuries, 5 players (including Russell) had various injuries of exactly 13 weeks (as of that day, Aug 4th), with the remainder of the injuries being what we would consider to be shor-term (day-to-day, or up to a few weeks)

Charlie Hough · 11-03-2023, 03:22 PM

If there are unwanted injuries that are still happening with storylines and long-term injuries turned off, then it might make sense to find the culprit entries in the injuries file and delete them. If they still appear in saved games after that, then it's definitely a bug.

Pelican · 11-06-2023, 09:54 PM

I think the thirteen months is meant to be a quarter year (25% of 52 weeks) or three months. Why that would be important, I don’t know.

I don’t use real injuries, and I struggle over whether to allow random injuries (based of course on how injury-prone a players is). I usually settle on rare or low frequency injuries, whatever the last point on the slider is before no injuries. That’s because I am usually playing “what if” certain things were changed, but everything else was the same, only certain variables. But, in managing a team, injuries are so much a part of the game, and deep benches and deep organizations are better prepared. It’s part of the challenge, and occasionally a young guy gets a chance due to injury.

Rain King · 11-07-2023, 08:58 AM

Here is a previous comment from Matt about this in the linked thread.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...ks#post4890847

"Short term injuries I believe are 2 weeks or less. Long term injuries are around 6 weeks or more. Anything between those values basically gets "interpolated" between the values. So if you set short as very often and long as never, then a 5 week injury will be very rare, 4 weeks would be average, etc...

They act independent, so no, turning off long term injuries will not increase short term ones."

So, it would seem that there is some kind of issue or these injuries are getting pulled from outside the normal injury system somehow.

OutS|der · 11-07-2023, 12:16 PM

No type of burn injury of any kind is in the game.

Rain King · 11-07-2023, 12:47 PM

The burn injury is almost certainly a Storyline.

I'm more curious about the 13-week injuries. It would be helpful if we had a specific example of one of those.

thehef · 11-07-2023, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutS|der

No type of burn injury of any kind is in the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain King

The burn injury is almost certainly a Storyline.
I'm more curious about the 13-week injuries. It would be helpful if we had a specific example of one of those.

Unfortunately, I deleted this league. No real point in explaining why, but what the heck: I was just goofing around to see if I could replicate a season where the Dodgers & Cardinals meet in the NLCS. When that Bill Russell 13-month injury appeared in Aug of my sim, I started this post. Then I moved forward (after manually shortening Russell's injury). When the Dodgers didn't make the playoffs, I wasn't thinking about the injury issue and having no further interest in that particular sim, I deleted it. Then, when I realized I might need it for reference re the 13-month injury issue, I tried to restore it but it's unrecoverable due to a OneDrive thing...

At any rate, I definitely could have misremembered the injury as a burn, when it may have been something else. And I can't think that there's any real chance that Storylines were enabled. This is because a) I NEVER use them, b) they are defaulted to OFF so I would've had to turn them on, c) when I first noticed the Russell injury, I reviewed all of my settings for something that might be unintended, and d) although I have very little experience with Storylines, I would think that if they were on I would've noticed other things happening in the game that were caused by Storylines...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain King

Here is a previous comment from Matt about this in the linked thread.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...ks#post4890847

"Short term injuries I believe are 2 weeks or less. Long term injuries are around 6 weeks or more. Anything between those values basically gets "interpolated" between the values. So if you set short as very often and long as never, then a 5 week injury will be very rare, 4 weeks would be average, etc...

They act independent, so no, turning off long term injuries will not increase short term ones."

So, it would seem that there is some kind of issue or these injuries are getting pulled from outside the normal injury system somehow.

That's great info. Thanks!

Along those lines and as fyi, I went ahead and posted this as a bug. Included in the bug post was the following:

In order to try to determine what should be the max-duration short-term injury, I ran a test of the 1975 season with the following settings:

Short Injury Frequency = Very high
Long Injury Frequency = None allowed

My thinking was that with s/t set to Very high, I'd get a lot of injuries and thus might be able to see a pattern that would discern what the longest s/t injury would be... Instead, though, I didn't get anywhere near the volume of injuries that I expected.

There were 146 injuries from April 6th to Sept 30th, which avg's out to about 24 injuries per month; and also avg's out to 6 injuries per team for the season. I monitored the list after completing each week and there were typically 3 or 4 injuries at any given time, but often there was just one or two. In a 24-team league with injuries set to the highest level, I expected to see a lot more of them... So I'm wondering if the whole injury frequency model is working as intended...

BTW, in my 1975 test the longest injury was a 5-6 week concussion... I did not see a repeat of any 13-month injuries.

11-03-2023, 04:25 AM	#1
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,380	short-term vs long-term injuries...??? I was goofing around with a 1985 historical game... My settings for injuries included: Short Injury Frequency = Normal (OOTP Classic) Long Injury Frequency = None allowed Yet Bill Russell on Aug 4th was given a 13-month injury (some sort of burn on his hand)... IDK what OOTP considers short-term vs long-term, but I would think that by any reasonable measure, 13 months is a long-term injury. Am I wrong? Perhaps strangely, when I look at the League Injuries Report, in addition to a few players here and there with the expected day-to-day and other short-term injuries, I see four other players with 13-week injuries. Not 10- and not 12- and not 15- or any other term, but 13-week injuries. To be clear, I do not have Real Injuries (nor Real Lineups) selected. And even if I did, these "injuries" do not correspond to real life. Any ideas as to what's going on?

11-06-2023, 09:54 PM	#8
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 3,175	I think the thirteen months is meant to be a quarter year (25% of 52 weeks) or three months. Why that would be important, I don’t know. I don’t use real injuries, and I struggle over whether to allow random injuries (based of course on how injury-prone a players is). I usually settle on rare or low frequency injuries, whatever the last point on the slider is before no injuries. That’s because I am usually playing “what if” certain things were changed, but everything else was the same, only certain variables. But, in managing a team, injuries are so much a part of the game, and deep benches and deep organizations are better prepared. It’s part of the challenge, and occasionally a young guy gets a chance due to injury. __________________ Pelican OOTP 2020-? ”Hard to believe, Harry.”

11-03-2023, 07:27 AM	#2
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 10,126 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	The Russell thing almost sounds like a storyline, but I have to figure you have those turned off. How could a guy burn his hand playing baseball? Must be a really bad burn to miss 13 months.

11-03-2023, 08:38 AM	#3
Sweed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 7,018	There are also random "at home" injuries that can happen with story lines turned off. My closer missed three months of my latest season due to an injury sustained while riding a motorcycle.

11-03-2023, 02:28 PM	#6
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,380	I guess I'm wondering if it's a bug. Sure seems like it to me because... - Long-term injuries were set to "none allowed" and 13 months does not seem to fit the definition of "short-term" - Out of approximately 15 league-wide injuries, 5 players (including Russell) had various injuries of exactly 13 weeks (as of that day, Aug 4th), with the remainder of the injuries being what we would consider to be shor-term (day-to-day, or up to a few weeks)

11-03-2023, 03:22 PM	#7
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	If there are unwanted injuries that are still happening with storylines and long-term injuries turned off, then it might make sense to find the culprit entries in the injuries file and delete them. If they still appear in saved games after that, then it's definitely a bug.

11-07-2023, 08:58 AM	#9
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,323	Here is a previous comment from Matt about this in the linked thread. https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...ks#post4890847 "Short term injuries I believe are 2 weeks or less. Long term injuries are around 6 weeks or more. Anything between those values basically gets "interpolated" between the values. So if you set short as very often and long as never, then a 5 week injury will be very rare, 4 weeks would be average, etc... They act independent, so no, turning off long term injuries will not increase short term ones." So, it would seem that there is some kind of issue or these injuries are getting pulled from outside the normal injury system somehow.

11-07-2023, 12:16 PM	#10
OutS\|der Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: In A Van Down By The River Posts: 2,757 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	No type of burn injury of any kind is in the game.

11-07-2023, 12:47 PM	#11
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,323	The burn injury is almost certainly a Storyline. I'm more curious about the 13-week injuries. It would be helpful if we had a specific example of one of those.