Historical database issues go here!

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by djc

Negro league players question. First thanks for including them. I have been working on a way to make them more realistic with other baseball sims. See my website projects. Here is my latest project http://baseballreplay.hopto.org/brn2/index.php. Please see the reference section for scources used to create the negro league players.
Is there a way to create or modify the database to reflect a more realistic version of those players. I agree that most of the negro leaguers were AAA talent at best, but some of them were on par with major leagues and I would like to see them represented that way.

Thank you for your taking the time to look into this.

PM sent.

[underwig]

I think somehow, I keep confusing the game with my creative formats. a historical league from 2012 cut down to a 24 team league with the excess players going into a free agent draft. Concept was super fun until all the free agents duplicated in the second offseason. It was actually the third glitch of the game, but the one that was an impasse for me. I just posted a seperate reply about that , so I'm sorry to be redundant.
So with that said, I have a question: what would be the safest way for me to play a creative league with 24 teams from 2012 with the real players, but also have the real historic draft pools from 2012 on (that part is really important to me)? After hours and hours of trials, trying to create the perfect league, I thought I had figured it out. Is it best for me just to replace teams in a custom format? But then you can't have the historic draft class from 2012 on. What's the best way to do it without the risk of players duplicating? It seems to me that when you cut teams out, that is the cause of duplicated players, for some reason. Seems like, even if you replace teams in a custom league, the fictional players are all on free agency. I guess you could just delete them all.

[Murph3]

1947 Historical Exhibition/World Series using real rosters. On the Dodgers there are 2 of Harry Taylor (RP) with the same exact ratings: 40-65-40.

Also, I believe the Dodgers are missing a relief pitcher or two who were on the real World Series roster. Perhaps the second Harry Taylor took his place.

[pstrickert]

I checked the WS roster file. It contains just one Harry Taylor for Brooklyn in 1947. The rest of the WS roster looks fine. I see no omissions.

[djc]

Not sure anyone has seen this yet. But the 1900 Louisville Colonels (LS3) are rolling over to the 1901 Philadelphia Athletics instead of the Pittsburgh Pirates! The Milwaukee Brewers (ML3) of 1900 are roling over to the Detroit Tigers? The 1900 St. Louis Browns (SL4) are rolling over to the 1901 Milwaukee Brewers? Not sure where these changes took place but doing a sim starting before 1901 is all screwed up.

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by djc

Not sure anyone has seen this yet. But the 1900 Louisville Colonels (LS3) are rolling over to the 1901 Philadelphia Athletics instead of the Pittsburgh Pirates! The Milwaukee Brewers (ML3) of 1900 are rolling over to the Detroit Tigers? The 1900 St. Louis Browns (SL4) are rolling over to the 1901 Milwaukee Brewers? Not sure where these changes took place but doing a sim starting before 1901 is all screwed up.

Every 19th c team has to turn into someone modern. It's a work-around that was devised to make the 19th c work in OOTP if you start a game before 1901. The game can't contract MLB teams so they must keep moving forward and turn into someone. So, that's the game working as designed.

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

The game can't contract MLB teams so they must keep moving forward and turn into someone. So, that's the game working as designed.

Unless you do everything manually like I do from 1871 to 1900

To be honest I don't understand why the game doesn't use the same system that it use with the minor league... To much work I'd guess to rework the historical mode so the 19th century would work as it did in real life (even the Union League and the Player League could be automatically created this way the years they existed).

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Every 19th c team has to turn into someone modern. It's a work-around that was devised to make the 19th c work in OOTP if you start a game before 1901. The game can't contract MLB teams so they must keep moving forward and turn into someone. So, that's the game working as designed.

Not necessarily.
The game up to 23 could do it with the real historical expansion and contraction. Granted you had to edit the teams csv and take care of expansion drafts but that could be done by the computer.
Problem is that you have to have a transaction database that corresponds
with the expansion. I don't think ootp would want to take the time for that as
other areas of the game are probably more of a priority.
However if you don't use historical transactions and let teams take whatever player they want then i don't see a difference in the way the game does it and real expansion. I gave up on ootp24 for 19th century play.
Too much work to do a historical league and the game setup is lacking imo.
Every other day a team was running out of players.

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Problem is that you have to have a transaction database that corresponds
with the expansion.

The transaction database works with the 19th century since I use it... all you need to do is select the option in the advance options when you create your game (not after because it won't show until 1901). The rookie players also go with the team they are suppose to go to (except that you will have to move some manually). Never had a team runs out of players in the simulations I do...

[thehef]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

The transaction database works with the 19th century since I use it... all you need to do is select the option in the advance options when you create your game (not after because it won't show until 1901). The rookie players also go with the team they are suppose to go to (except that you will have to move some manually). Never had a team runs out of players in the simulations I do...

Very interesting. Could you please explain your process in detail? Also, I'm assuming that your initial rosters are still random and players don't initially import to their historically correct team, right? (Actually, now that I think about that, that would have to be the case since pre-1901 teams in OOTP are not historically correct.)

[AESP_pres]

When I create my historical league in 1871... I go to the advance options before finalizing it to select "use real transaction" and the transaction will work fine (if you don't select the option before you won't be able to use it until 1901.

Of course you must manually change the teams and league format every seasons until 1901 or it won't work. After a season when the game created it's new structure compare with the real season and correct everything, by example in 1872 Rockford become Baltimore which isn't true so what you must do is wrote the historical team and franchise id for the Baltimore team and rewrote everything back with the Rockford info (you left both id empty since you will delete the team January first), when this is done create a new team for Baltimore with the id you wrote before. Don't forgot to move the rookie players to BAL who will be with ROK (in that case there isn't one) and don't forget to load the correct schedule and move all the teams in their correct leagues.

This sound complicated but after a while you get use to it... just backup your league before the off season so you will be able to restart if you do an error.

The image is all the teams who were in my league (1871 / 1913) and as you can see everything is historically accurate (except for the win/loss record and championship of course).

[thehef]

FYI, to continue this discussion I started a new thread in the "OOTP 24 - Historical & Fictional Simulations" forum so as not to further hijack this thread

[pstrickert]

Bob Hale shows 9 GS under Real Stats for CLE in 1961. In reality, he made no starts. BB-Ref shows him with no starts that year for CLE. His real life game log also confirms no starts.

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Bob Hale shows 9 GS under Real Stats for CLE in 1961. In reality, he made no starts. BB-Ref shows him with no starts that year for CLE. His real life game log also confirms no starts.

Lots of pinch-hitting for him. Fixed batting and fielding lines for CLE in '61.

[Murph3]

Started a historical tournament with the 1979 Montreal Expos. SP Bill Gullickson is rated 60-80-50 while IRL he only pitched 1 inning the entire season and gave up 2 hits.

Note: I am using the End of Season roster option.

It seems to be using his much better 1980 stats. Is my database corrupted?

[pstrickert]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Lots of pinch-hitting for him. Fixed batting and fielding lines for CLE in '61.

Many thanks!

[Chamale]

I'm having problems importing Babe Ruth as a historic player in OOTP 24.

Problem 1: He's listed as a starting pitcher with a 0.5 star rating, even if he's imported from 1927. I assume two-way players being programmed into the game caused this problem. Manually changing his position to right field improves his star rating.

Problem 2: His hometown is listed as Murphy, Texas.

Problem 3: He kinda sucks! Importing with neutralized stats, 1923 Babe Ruth gets a projected statline of .238/.407/.613. For comparison, 1924 Rogers Hornsby gets a projected statline of .378/.471/.729. Ruth's contact rating is extremely low. The problem persists with Real and Neutralized stats. I want to make sure that the imported Babe Ruth is one of the best players in the game, particularly compared to other players imported from the 1920s.

Did some change to the historic stat conversions cause this problem? As far as I can tell, it's only an issue for Babe Ruth. I tested with Guy Hecker and John Ward, also two-way players, and their stats seemed to be converted correctly.

Edit: This gets even more confusing. If all of the free agents are deleted and I import Ruth, he's projected to bat .376, with a contact rating of 80/80. But if I important a list of 90 players simultaneously, Ruth is again batting .238 with a contact rating of 25/80. Then, if I delete all of those players and import Ruth, he still bats .238. I tested this with Rogers Hornsby, and he's projected to bat .425 when I upload him to an empty list of free agents. But he's projected to bat .371 if he's uploaded as part of a group of 90 players. So I suspect the game is somehow making adjustments to their internal stats, based on the quality of the league.

[LansdowneSt]

I've imported him in 1923 from the historical.database.odb and once you change him to a RF, he's a God. So that's just optics depending on the position he's toggled to (and yes, as an SP, he is very bad).

The Murphy TX thing is weird. It's correctly Baltimore in the OOTP database and seems to have always been Baltimore as far as I can tell. Why it presents as Murphy will take some digging.

1923 Babe slashes .367/.504/.713 on default import settings as a RF. Real Stats. And then with Neutralized, he came it at .389/.523/.707.

Screenshot of 1923 Neutralized Stats below.

[Chamale]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

I've imported him in 1923 from the historical.database.odb and once you change him to a RF, he's a God. So that's just optics depending on the position he's toggled to (and yes, as an SP, he is very bad).

The Murphy TX thing is weird. It's correctly Baltimore in the OOTP database and seems to have always been Baltimore as far as I can tell. Why it presents as Murphy will take some digging.

1923 Babe slashes .367/.504/.713 on default import settings as a RF. Real Stats. And then with Neutralized, he came it at .389/.523/.707.

Screenshot of 1923 Neutralized Stats below.

Thank you for that testing. Could you try uploading him as part of a group of players? I've attached the list that I used. I do a fantasy league where we draft historic players, so that's why I'm experiencing this problem.

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by Chamale

Thank you for that testing. Could you try uploading him as part of a group of players? I've attached the list that I used. I do a fantasy league where we draft historic players, so that's why I'm experiencing this problem.

You are correct. This bug can be repeated. It's as if it's reading the wrong contact column. I'll log it. Thanks for posting the file so it could be confirmed by duplicating.

Here's the result I got (Real Stats):

Also, before I run side-by-sides of every player on the list as a solo import versus this - you say, they all come in wonky from the list?