AI to AI trade logic is awful

[polydamas]

The AI is OBSESSED with trash relievers. I think I'm turning AI trades off until this is fixed.

[Cod]

Originally Posted by polydamas

The AI is OBSESSED with trash relievers. I think I'm turning AI trades off until this is fixed.

Are you still seeing issues using the beta patch that was released today?

[polydamas]

Originally Posted by Cod

Are you still seeing issues using the beta patch that was released today?

No, I didn't see it. Thanks for pointing it out!

[Cactusguy21]

Originally Posted by billyray1984

Do teams have money ? Teams having no money is a recipe for a million head scratching moves since the AI will see that it has no money and that it needs to dump salary (even after an inaugrual draft). After the trade, it'll see that it has a hole that needs to be filled and trade to fill that hole, but sometimes, it fills that hole with another guy making a lot of money, perpetuating the cycle.

The human player knows how to dump salary the right way : send the guy to some other team with a prospect attached and some retained salary, and then plug in a guy making the minimum in his place. The AI will often dump salary with a lot of retention on its part (80%+), without attaching a good player, and replace the player it dumped with another player making a lot of money. Not always, but it happens.

My teams have a ton of money currently, they are running pretty low payrolls, having not had a free agency period yet to blow money on.

[Thundercrack]

playing fictional with financials off. Trade AI is still garbage. Not only volume but the lopsided nature of many trades. And I'm 10 seasons in. sorry, how many updates until its fixed? All star break? post-season? sorry for the rant but its frustrating to see my league ruined over and over again. Every new release now is just a public beta until July at the earliest

[wallewalls]

Anyone noticing that teams are signing a ton of their players to extensions? My past few free agency classes have been pretty bare and I think this is the reason why. It perhaps is too easy to sign players to extensions now.

[Sweed]

Ok, I've completed a full year and 5"ish" months in v24. (IE offseason, preseason, ST, regular season, offseason, preseason, ST, to opening day) Time to look at those trade numbers. This is done with trading on average frequency and evaluations at 25/25/25/25. Full disclosure, in January of the first "import offseason" there was about a 2 week "in game" window where my trading was set to low. I did this soon after the "too many trades" threads were started, but went back to average as the discussion evolved. The league is fictional through attrition as it was started in v4 and imported to each new version up to v24.

OOTP 23 trades from my last full season.

1. Off season start through winter meetings. Nov. 3- Dec. 17.
32 MLB trades, 39 including minor league trades.

2. Winter Meetings to opening day. Dec. 21 (first trade after meetings) to March 13 (last trade before opening day).
16 MLB / 22 including minors

3. April/ May.
3 MLB / 14 including minors

4. June / July trade deadline.
17 MLB / 27 including minors (incredibly light and unrealistic)

First season after importing from v23 to v24.

1. off season start through winter meetings. Nov.8 - Dec. 18
62 MLB trades / 72 with minors

2. Winter meetings to opening day. Dec. 19 - March 20.
32 MLB / 45 with minors

3. April / May.
2 MLB trades, 16 with minors.

4. June / July.
54 MLB, 108 with minors

Offseason following first season in v24, IE second offseason after import

1. offseason start through winter meetings.
23 MLB / 29 with minors

2. Winter meetings to opening day.
21 MLB / 35 with minors

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One full year in v23 shows... 68 MLB/ 102 with minors

One year in v24 with the first off season to opening day following import from v23. (ie the new game "readjustment period).
150 MLB / 241 with minors.
This number includes the first few weeks after import with 62 MLB and 72 total trades.

One thing to note when comparing the initial first import off season with the second offseason in v24 is the trades fall by almost 60%.
off season 1: 62/72
off season 2: 23/29

Comparing v24's offseason #2 with v23's final offseason we see..
v24: 23/29
v23: 32/39 (this is the start of off season up to winter meetings)
Fewer trades in v24 than in v23.


v24: 21/35
v23: 16/22 (the winter meetings to opening day window)
More trades in v24.

Total in both windows.
v24: 44/64
v23: 48/61


Compare those two to the "roster correction due to import" in v24's offseason #1.
94/117.

Pretty much what I've seen when importing my game into any new version. I do believe v24 was a bit more extreme on it's initial shakeup of the roster, but once through that it ended up being about where I expected it to be.

Some have said they've seen the same players traded over and over. Some report star players being moved for nothing. Some had reported trading just to trade. In their game they may be right. All I know is I read over the complete transaction log every day and review every trade. In my game I have not had any of these issues. One factor in this that may make a difference is the teams in my league all have money. Teams are keeping their players and not having to dump salary. It's a theory


The thread is wide open for others to post their data, and I hope some do.

[omg_pwnasaurus]

I haven't really tracked the hard data on it but I'm seeing a lot of Top 100 prospects that get dealt in my save. Sometimes for another Top 100 prospect (which still doesn't happen much IRL) but recently I saw an expensive semi-star rental player dealt at the deadline for the #1 prospect in baseball. So I think for me anyway, the trading away top prospects constantly thing is probably a bigger deal than the quantity of trades overall.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by omg_pwnasaurus

I haven't really tracked the hard data on it but I'm seeing a lot of Top 100 prospects that get dealt in my save. Sometimes for another Top 100 prospect (which still doesn't happen much IRL) but recently I saw an expensive semi-star rental player dealt at the deadline for the #1 prospect in baseball. So I think for me anyway, the trading away top prospects constantly thing is probably a bigger deal than the quantity of trades overall.

As I said I can't speak for what others have observed or tracked. I only have my game to go by. My post is definitely not only about the number of trades. I'm not saying that is the way you took it, but want to be clear for anyone else that reads the post. I tried to cover that with the last paragraph noting how I examine every trade. I go to the trade log and click on every player involved, and FWIW have not seen anything outrageous.

I noted in an earlier post that a top 10 overall SP was traded, and it so happens the AI offered him to me. From my earlier post..

While I did see a lot of trades none included any current superstar or even big star type players. I did see some trading of top prospects. The only "top prospect" trade I was involved in was Miami offering me a SP, the #10 overall on the list along with a "maybe a cup of tea RP". For that they wanted my top SP prospect that was a top #25 on the list, and not far behind the guy they offered in skills. My guy has no MLB service, is pretty much "can't miss". Their guy had about a half year of service and slight control issues with a 4 on the 8 scale, fully developed according to my scout. The rub? As soon as the trade was completed I got a "our players are concerned about "SP X's" affect on clubhouse moral". IOW a problem child. Skill wise the deal is in my favor, but overall? Maybe not

The other top prospects being traded in my game? I found from examining all of the trades, were moved for fair value. Sometimes prospect for prospect, sometimes for established players. All seemed to fill a need or at worst were a wash.

I do understand your point on realism and top 100's not being dealt a lot for other top 100's very often. It's a fair assessment. For me? As long as the AI is doing a decent job evaluating and making "value for value" trades it won't bother me. It may look odd, but may in the end be a good thing, if it helps both teams. Maybe real life teams' should follow this model?

[omg_pwnasaurus]

Just took a look at my sim. Started a 1977 historical and am now in May of 1979. Trade frequency set to low, everything else default with latest production patches. On the current Top 100 prospect list the following spots just out of the Top 50, were acquired via trade:

#'s 1, 3, 18, 19, 21, 25, 28, 33, 34, 36, 37, 39, 47

All were dealt while they appeared on the Top 100 list, not like they were 1 star guys then got dealt and TCR turned them great.

Seems like a ton of movement inside the Top 50 to me though.

[Pelican]

Yeah that is way too much movement. You may need to move trade frequency down a click. When I see that much player movement, like Sweed, I go in and review the individual trades (which admittedly is labor-intensive). For the most part, they seem fair, if unnecessary. If I see something that is unbalanced, I’ll reverse it, as Commissioner. (And may have to lock players to teams, so the AI doesn’t do it all over again.) One setting I use may make a difference. I have the AI heavily preferring veterans, which I suppose may lead to the AI dumping prospects - but then the other AI GMs would also want veterans?

[omg_pwnasaurus]

Yeah I had it on very low and then moved it back to low after the patch limiting trades a bit more got released. I think the amount of trades seems ok to me generally during the winter, deadline, etc, just the amount of top prospects getting dealt seems off.

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by Pelican

Yeah that is way too much movement. You may need to move trade frequency down a click. When I see that much player movement, like Sweed, I go in and review the individual trades (which admittedly is labor-intensive). For the most part, they seem fair, if unnecessary. If I see something that is unbalanced, I’ll reverse it, as Commissioner. (And may have to lock players to teams, so the AI doesn’t do it all over again.) One setting I use may make a difference. I have the AI heavily preferring veterans, which I suppose may lead to the AI dumping prospects - but then the other AI GMs would also want veterans?

If you have the AI heavily value veterans, then you will see *way* more top prospects get moved, since you are telling the AI that a guy on the wrong side of 30 should be valued a lot higher than usual, and the top prospects in baseball should be valued a lot lower than usual.

[MadMatt71]

I'm having trouble making any trades. I'd try a 2 star potential player along with a 1/2 star potential player for a 2 star potential on the other team. Nope. I've tried this multiple ways along the same lines and some trades went to 6 players for 1 and it still being rejected. I literally traded 10 players and 1 million dollars for a prospect from another team.
Can anyone explain what I'm doing wrong? I had Hard setting enabled and then disabled it when I started having all these problems.
Any help from anyone would surely be appreciated.

[md40022]

Originally Posted by MadMatt71

I'm having trouble making any trades. I'd try a 2 star potential player along with a 1/2 star potential player for a 2 star potential on the other team. Nope. I've tried this multiple ways along the same lines and some trades went to 6 players for 1 and it still being rejected. I literally traded 10 players and 1 million dollars for a prospect from another team.
Can anyone explain what I'm doing wrong? I had Hard setting enabled and then disabled it when I started having all these problems.
Any help from anyone would surely be appreciated.

Some additional detail or even some screen shots of the player profiles would be helpful.

It's not just about equaling the number of stars. If one 2 star player is younger (more time for development), has more contractual control and/or a more agreeable contract, more option years left and/or not hasn't had his MLB service time clock start yet - all of those things could make him much more desirable than another 2 star player.

And as for adding in a 1/2 star player to sway me to take the deal? Ehhh if there is clearly no future for that player than all that player does is take up a roster spot. I'd have no desire for that.

[Wudl83]

I stumbled upon the problem on accident as I purchased OOTP 24 only a few days ago and was surprised that I got so many trade offers from other teams (most of them being absolutely nonsense). After reading the thread in the forums here I looked deeper into it.

It's really strange. The AI is waiving players sometimes without any sense. Like the Pirates e.g. are waiving Oneill Cruz in 2023, I mean what the...?
But it's a game so if it's only this... it would be okay.

But in my last safe I tested trade frequency at "normal" and in the first offseason there were literally hundreds of trades. Between Nov. and Jan. there was nearly not one single day without trades.

Then I set AI trade frequency to "low" and from this day to opening day not a single trade happened between AI controlled clubs.

[Daniel_09]

Originally Posted by Wudl83

I stumbled upon the problem on accident as I purchased OOTP 24 only a few days ago and was surprised that I got so many trade offers from other teams (most of them being absolutely nonsense). After reading the thread in the forums here I looked deeper into it.

It's really strange. The AI is waiving players sometimes without any sense. Like the Pirates e.g. are waiving Oneill Cruz in 2023, I mean what the...?
But it's a game so if it's only this... it would be okay.

But in my last safe I tested trade frequency at "normal" and in the first offseason there were literally hundreds of trades. Between Nov. and Jan. there was nearly not one single day without trades.

Then I set AI trade frequency to "low" and from this day to opening day not a single trade happened between AI controlled clubs.

Ok some things to take into consideration, the first is that you have the most updated version of the game, if it is for steam you must have the latest, the second is that this year's game has more trades between AI teams compared to previous versions, in several updates they have tried to reduce this issue.

Several users have changed the default setting to achieve results that fit their preferences.

It is important to understand, when you start a new game the AI has not had enough time to achieve a roster according to their needs, that is why it is likely that in the first year the AI will make many adjustments (trades, waives, etc..) As the years go by the AI will be adjusting much better the roster so it begins to decrease these movements.

That is why users change the settings of the trades and then after a while they can be put back to default.

[Wudl83]

Originally Posted by Daniel_09

Ok some things to take into consideration, the first is that you have the most updated version of the game, if it is for steam you must have the latest, the second is that this year's game has more trades between AI teams compared to previous versions, in several updates they have tried to reduce this issue.

I have the steam version.

Originally Posted by Daniel_09

Several users have changed the default setting to achieve results that fit their preferences.

Yes, I know.

Originally Posted by Daniel_09

It is important to understand, when you start a new game the AI has not had enough time to achieve a roster according to their needs, that is why it is likely that in the first year the AI will make many adjustments (trades, waives, etc..) As the years go by the AI will be adjusting much better the roster so it begins to decrease these movements.

Please take a look at my screenshot. You will find the exact date when I changed the AI trade frequency setting. It makes no sense when i change it from "normal" to "low" that the AI stops trading completely. I get your reasoning but here it simply does not stand it.

And what I can add to this is the fact that in the same save (I could back it up with another screenshot) the AI made nearly 70 MLB trades in July alone. Adding minor league trades as well would catapult this number way above 100 for a single month.

There is also a terrible high amount of trades involving guys whose salary was retained by more than 90%.

[Daniel_09]

Originally Posted by Wudl83

I have the steam version.

Yes, I know.


Please take a look at my screenshot. You will find the exact date when I changed the AI trade frequency setting. It makes no sense when i change it from "normal" to "low" that the AI stops trading completely. I get your reasoning but here it simply does not stand it.

And what I can add to this is the fact that in the same save (I could back it up with another screenshot) the AI made nearly 70 MLB trades in July alone. Adding minor league trades as well would catapult this number way above 100 for a single month.

There is also a terrible high amount of trades involving guys whose salary was retained by more than 90%.

Those 70 trades in the month of July seem quite realistic in my opinion.

These are the trades in the month of July in the last few years IRL


"Here’s a glance at how many trades were made from July 1 until the deadline each season.

2001: 32
2002: 26
2003: 29
2004: 20
2005: 22
2006: 35
2007: 23
2008: 18
2009: 43
2010: 32
2011: 29
2012: 38
2013: 27
2014: 39
2015: 48
2016: 43
2017: 62
2018: 52
2019: 67
2020: 49*
2021: 74
2022: 75

*The 2020 figure accounts for all trades from Aug. 1-31 since that year’s deadline was pushed back as part of a pandemic-shortened season.

[Wudl83]

Originally Posted by Daniel_09

Those 70 trades in the month of July seem quite realistic in my opinion.

These are the trades in the month of July in the last few years IRL


"Here’s a glance at how many trades were made from July 1 until the deadline each season.

2001: 32
2002: 26
2003: 29
2004: 20
2005: 22
2006: 35
2007: 23
2008: 18
2009: 43
2010: 32
2011: 29
2012: 38
2013: 27
2014: 39
2015: 48
2016: 43
2017: 62
2018: 52
2019: 67
2020: 49*
2021: 74
2022: 75

*The 2020 figure accounts for all trades from Aug. 1-31 since that year’s deadline was pushed back as part of a pandemic-shortened season.

Okay, thanks for the answer, then my initial reaction was wrong.

But nonetheless the offseason trades went from hundreds ("normal") to zero ("low").