What a let down this is

[DanKreider]

I am sure this has been said many times by now, I have been away from the game for a bit. OOTP'23 was not great in my personal opinion, it had its strengths, but was overall a mediocre release (in my opinion).

OOTP24 however, which I just purchased the other day, is not good. Not good.

The UI is really quite unpleasant, the game is very similar to OOTP23, I am disappointed how similar the whole thing feels, and its online features and content seems to just keep getting worse each year. I have been purchasing this game since OOTP11 I think (something like that), and I do love the franchise. I just honestly think it keeps getting slightly worse with each new year, rather than growing and getting better.

I will caveat all of this with saying this is just one person's opinion, and I am no game guru by any means, perhaps I am just getting older and crankier about things. Maybe if you opened up the code to more ability to customize and create mods, perhaps other creative people with some development skills could help move this game forward a bit?

[md40022]

Originally Posted by DanKreider

I have been away from the game for a bit.


I have been purchasing this game since OOTP11 I think



I just honestly think it keeps getting slightly worse with each new year, rather than growing and getting better.

I credit you for having 10+ years of experience with the game and familiarity with every single version despite having been away from it for a while...... that takes talent.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by md40022

I credit you for having 10+ years of experience with the game and familiarity with every single version despite having been away from it for a while...... that takes talent.

Well who knows what he actually means by "a bit". That could be a year or 5 years.

[DanKreider]

Maybe just poorly written on my part, by "away for abit" I meant I had not played in a few months and just purchased 24 a couple of days ago, I did not mean I had been away for years. What I meant by saying that was that I have not been up to date on the forums or what is being said about this version, I am not sure if I am in the minority or if I am just beating a dead horse.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by DanKreider

I am sure this has been said many times by now, I have been away from the game for a bit. OOTP'23 was not great in my personal opinion, it had its strengths, but was overall a mediocre release (in my opinion).

OOTP24 however, which I just purchased the other day, is not good. Not good.

The UI is really quite unpleasant, the game is very similar to OOTP23, I am disappointed how similar the whole thing feels, and its online features and content seems to just keep getting worse each year. I have been purchasing this game since OOTP11 I think (something like that), and I do love the franchise. I just honestly think it keeps getting slightly worse with each new year, rather than growing and getting better.

I will caveat all of this with saying this is just one person's opinion, and I am no game guru by any means, perhaps I am just getting older and crankier about things. Maybe if you opened up the code to more ability to customize and create mods, perhaps other creative people with some development skills could help move this game forward a bit?

what is the point of this post? If you're writing a review, the general forums isn't the place place for that. If you're making OOTP24 suggestions, the general forums isn't the place for that. If you're reporting issues, the general forums is not the place for that.

[Rain King]

This is version 24. You aren't going to see leaps and bounds of growth when there have been 23 previous versions of the game. It is too large of a product with too small of a development team to not feel very similar from year-to-year.

Have you looked at the change list for OOTP 24? A lot of the biggest changes are under the hood and probably not something you will notice in a couple days of playing.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=344827

[redranger]

I have been on board since ver1. I have purchased every version of this product every single year.

I can appreciate where this has come from ver1 to v24 with great admiration. It may seem the changes from ver16 and on or v21 and on get slimmer, but I tend to disagree. I think the major part that goes unnoticed is all the under the hood fine tweaking and tuning that takes place

Is it perfect? Of course not. But it still is better than any other product out there to simulate the world of baseball

And at the price and shear amount of hours I spend every single year….I’m getting a value of penny’s to the hour.

I don’t want to discount anyone’s displeasure, but not quite sure what the expectation is?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

what is the point of this post?

It's called customer feedback. Such feedback may be great, mediocre, or poor. It may be specific or general or vague. But it all has its purpose and use.

[md40022]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

It's called customer feedback. Such feedback may be great, mediocre, or poor. It may be specific or general or vague. But it all has its purpose and use.

Without any context though, there isn't that much purpose IMO.

The OP is entitled to his opinion. God knows I've complained about parts of this game as well, but I've always had something concrete that I'm actually complaining about - not just "I dont like the game because it's not good."

I think for the most part we agree that the devs do take our feedback to try to make improvements, but I don't know what you can pull from the OPs post here to work to improve. Nothing specific is mentioned.

[FlexD]

The OP has a right to voice his opinion, I'm not here to knock version 24, but my favorite version has been and continues to be version 6.5....The UI in 24 is a mess.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by FlexD

The OP has a right to voice his opinion, I'm not here to knock version 24, but my favorite version has been and continues to be version 6.5....The UI in 24 is a mess.

of course he does. I'm just pointing that there are better ways to do so than posting a gripe post in the general forum. I happen to agree with him somewhat, but his voice will not be heard in this forum.

[FlexD]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

of course he does. I'm just pointing that there are better ways to do so than posting a gripe post in the general forum. I happen to agree with him somewhat, but his voice will not be heard in this forum.

BTW, the work you have posted here and the info you've posted are damn good. I use your charts quiet a bit....And your minor league progressions are spot on..

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by FlexD

BTW, the work you have posted here and the info you've posted are damn good. I use your charts quiet a bit....And your minor league progressions are spot on..

Thanks! I've been meaning to get around to update my stuff. Most of it still applies, just needs small tweaks

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by Rain King

This is version 24. You aren't going to see leaps and bounds of growth when there have been 23 previous versions of the game. It is too large of a product with too small of a development team to not feel very similar from year-to-year.

But at the same time we did get pitcher BABIP which is a godsend for historical sims.

[PSUColonel]

This version has had some really nice under the hood improvements now that the team has had some time to work on it. I do like the way the statistics and player development engine is functioning, and I think the trade AI is also much improved.

Obviously though, I am still VERY disappointed in the scope of OOTP. The loss of the international leagues really cuts into the immersion of OOTP, and I am not sure it's ever going to be recoverable. I am still just not sure the focus of OOTP is ever going to be MANAGEMENT the way it is with FM. It still feels like a statistical simulator more than a manager. I guess that is the chosen direction of OOTP though, and it really still does that part very well.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by DanKreider

Maybe just poorly written on my part, by "away for abit" I meant I had not played in a few months and just purchased 24 a couple of days ago, I did not mean I had been away for years. What I meant by saying that was that I have not been up to date on the forums or what is being said about this version, I am not sure if I am in the minority or if I am just beating a dead horse.

You are for sure not in the minority. Many of us feel the same way.
But many people still enjoy every version of the series and do not mind the glacial pace of development.
Then there are those who are hardcore sycophants who will not allow any dissent about the series and will either dismiss it or try and explain it away.

I would say there is a growing minority of us that for various reasons are disappointed in the direction of the game or the lack of substantial improvements. Or even both.

But the development team seems to be okay with where the game is going and are also making a great deal of income from the games as a service model that is PT.

Some of us still play and offer suggestions and gripes now and then.
Others like me purchase the game every 3 to 4 versions and do so on sale.


I will say that there seems to be a growing number of users who will speak up. Even 5 years ago that was almost unheard of

And it seems to be reflected in other ways as well.
They have removed every prior version off Steam. But this is the worst-reviewed version on Steam in the franchise's history.

Granted, it is still reviewed at around 78% or so approval.
But it drops a little each version.


It remains to be seen if OOTPD cares or even notices.
I am doubtful we will ever see meaningful changes.
But I still care which is why I still check this forum and keep up with the series.

It is still really good at what is does. It could just be so much more and the lack of substantial improvement since around version 18 or 19 is a source of frustration.

[pauwoo]

It took me a minute - and, I do think that this years model, out of the box, may have been a bit undercooked - but, I've come around to this version and quite enjoy it.

I'd even echo this bit from PSUColonel...

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

This version has had some really nice under the hood improvements now that the team has had some time to work on it. I do like the way the statistics and player development engine is functioning, and I think the trade AI is also much improved.

When I think about the legacy game, I like what they've done here, under the hood. The changes, at times, do feel incremental - but, worth it for me. Putting PT critiques and disappointment over the international league's exclusion aside, the changes in this version, on the most recent patch, seem to be functioning properly and my enjoyment of this franchise remains high - I.E. I'm getting a good return on my investment. It's always a bummer to hear that others do not share my opinion.

But that's how it goes in matters of preference. I like what redranger said here:

Originally Posted by redranger

And at the price and shear amount of hours I spend every single year….I’m getting a value of penny’s to the hour.

I don’t want to discount anyone’s displeasure, but not quite sure what the expectation is?

What is the expectation of the boo birds? My expectation is fun. Not perfection. Just fun, a few laughs, some light-hearted disappointment when my 100-win club gets bounced out of the playoffs, and a development engine capable of some modicum of 'realism'.

Check, check, check, and, umm, check.

[Pelican]

To me, the OP reflects the YMMV nature of this game. It’s versatile, and so many posters use it in different ways. So everybody starts with specific - narrow or broad - expectations.

For example, I have zero interest in the online version, so the considerable time devoted to that by the devs is totally lost on me. I don’t begrudge that effort, because it is undoubtedly a marketing plus that has brought new users - and ultimately makes the product stronger. I would never comment on whether the online product is good, bad, or indifferent, because I don’t know.

All I can (or should) really say is that I have seen steady and enjoyable improvements in the way I play, from 21 to 22 to 23 and 24. Lots of bugs tracked down along the way. Cool new features. So, in my little corner of the OOTP universe [replay individual seasons with real players but development on, highish TCR, no missed seasons or actual trades or lineups, financial constraints] things are good.

I now have the sense that OOTP - like most simulation games - is always going to be a work in progress. It’s not static, which is good, of course. I gather that game tweaks and development are always at risk of the “doctrine of unintended consequences” in a complex environment. That can give the process a “two steps forward, and one step back’ aspect sometimes. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I would be interested, if the OP has specific areas of disappointment, or questions or ideas about things that could work better. Bugs are bugs, but there are also functions that strike people as not quite right, or could be better, or why not this way? And, as I remind myself, there is always the spectre of “user error”, or, more likely, “user not realizing how to fix this or avoid that or have such and such happen.”

[Reed]

Exactly how would you like to see the UI improved?

I have played at least 5 pc baseball Games and this is the only best one IMO. It is easy to log a bug or problem and you usually get a response. You frequently get a response from a developer in the regular threads. It seems like there are more things added and improved in OOTP every year than the other baseball sims. I know they look at and try to add things from the suggestions thread (although they have never added my main 2 suggestion but I suppose maybe it’s because only 1 or 2 others agreed-overuse penalty for historical players and a scoresheet option.
Instead of buying every year, maybe some of you should buy every 2nd or 3rd year if at all. This is JMO.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Pelican

To me, the OP reflects the YMMV nature of this game. It’s versatile, and so many posters use it in different ways. So everybody starts with specific - narrow or broad - expectations.

For example, I have zero interest in the online version, so the considerable time devoted to that by the devs is totally lost on me. I don’t begrudge that effort, because it is undoubtedly a marketing plus that has brought new users - and ultimately makes the product stronger. I would never comment on whether the online product is good, bad, or indifferent, because I don’t know.

All I can (or should) really say is that I have seen steady and enjoyable improvements in the way I play, from 21 to 22 to 23 and 24. Lots of bugs tracked down along the way. Cool new features. So, in my little corner of the OOTP universe [replay individual seasons with real players but development on, highish TCR, no missed seasons or actual trades or lineups, financial constraints] things are good.

I now have the sense that OOTP - like most simulation games - is always going to be a work in progress. It’s not static, which is good, of course. I gather that game tweaks and development are always at risk of the “doctrine of unintended consequences” in a complex environment. That can give the process a “two steps forward, and one step back’ aspect sometimes. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I would be interested, if the OP has specific areas of disappointment, or questions or ideas about things that could work better. Bugs are bugs, but there are also functions that strike people as not quite right, or could be better, or why not this way? And, as I remind myself, there is always the spectre of “user error”, or, more likely, “user not realizing how to fix this or avoid that or have such and such happen.”

This is very true Pelican. The fact is...and I probably shouldn't say this....but the best way to enjoy OOTP is to update very late in each versions' cycle. Rule of thumb....when FM is coming out with a new version, it is time to update OOTP. When OOTP is coming out with a new version, it's time to update FM. I say this a bit tongue in cheek, but it hold some truth. These types of simulation games are much better later in the cycle after development has had time to refine them. The truth of the matter is that new releases are usually always very raw...and you will usually find multiple issues for why it's not a good idea to update with your saves. FM now also will be allowing for the transfer of saves in the future from here on out, so this applies to both SI & OOTPD.

Of course if you are selling games, this is not what you want to hear because the truth is, this will not help your company make money. Often with the timeline I posted above, these games are usually on sale or have been deeply discounted by this point in time.