Tigers sim - what to do with Baez

[Bulldawgz24]

Hey all, just started my tigers simulation and still in the first month of ‘23.

Anyone else doing a tigers franchise sim? How did you handle Baez and E-rod? Currently they have bloated contracts relative to their abilities.

I did some preliminary trades and was not able to get rid of either of them for nothing due to bloated contracts.

My best guess would be to see how this season plays out, if they play well maybe their market improves so I can move. Otherwise I can try to move next season (assuming they opt in) and just eat a portion of their salary (hopefully minimal).

Thoughts?

[Bears5122]

I think you'll have to ride it out. I remember having this same issue with Jason Heyward. In one sim I was lucky and the league expanded and a team took him in the expansion draft. Otherwise I just rostered him till he was well below a major league contributor and released him.

[outrider64]

Originally Posted by Bulldawgz24

Hey all, just started my tigers simulation and still in the first month of ‘23.

Anyone else doing a tigers franchise sim? How did you handle Baez and E-rod? Currently they have bloated contracts relative to their abilities.

I did some preliminary trades and was not able to get rid of either of them for nothing due to bloated contracts.

My best guess would be to see how this season plays out, if they play well maybe their market improves so I can move. Otherwise I can try to move next season (assuming they opt in) and just eat a portion of their salary (hopefully minimal).

Thoughts?

I gave up on my Tigers sim for that reason. Cannot get anyone to bite on either one. I did not try it, but I wonder if playing around with the trades settings to make it easier would work. To me though that's not challenging enough. Good luck in your sim. Go Tigers.

[Cod]

The Tigers are still a few years away from competing and you'll get a huge bump when Miggy's contract expires after the first season. You need to set your sights on the later years of the Baez and Rodriguez contracts because that's ideally when you'll need to pounce. Through the transition period, ride out the contracts and continually build up your minor league and international systems with players that won't be major league ready right away.

I was going to try a Tigers save last year, but ended up doing a bunch of international saves. Maybe this year I should try one.

[Bears5122]

Yeah, the Tigers are years away from fielding a competitive team with their budget. I'd just ride out the Baez contract while rebuilding. Using available budget to sign short term deals and then flipping those guys at the deadline.

[Bulldawgz24]

Thanks for the replies, along the lines of what I was thinking. Will ride out the contracts with a focus on building up my prospect pool in the meantime.

[Guthrien]

I didn't check yet to see if Cabrera's contract was fixed but I think even in 23 he always retired after year 1. They occasionally (ok, not often) have good seasons and you'd think they'd opt out given the contracts being handed to other players. Baez is coming in during an awful SS market and a decent SP demands a lot more than Rodriguez. But.. let's assume that doesn't happen. You probably need to eat part of the contract, which is likely still worth it, or take on another big contract for a player you like more (you can find players other teams hate too). Or sacrifice some prospects with them. I got rid of them a lot in 23 that way, though Baez would bizarrely excel on other teams. I'll always play a Tiger franchise so I agree it's a puzzle.

[N51_rob]

Ran the Orioles for years and it was Chris Davis' contract that did this to me. Its virtually impossible to move it. You're going to have to eat some of that contract. One time I did get lucky and an expansion team drafted him. But that is another story.

I'm currently trying the Rockies as the O's have gone past rebuilding into a competitive window and l like to rebuild.

You're best bet is a trade to a contender around the deadline. You would have to take lesser tier prospects, retain some % of the contract(s) and offer a better prospect or two in return. It can be done with some creative maneuvering but it isn't going to be easy.

You could also attempt to take on a bigger contract that ends sooner and will get you out from under it quicker.

[r0nster]

Originally Posted by Bulldawgz24

Hey all, just started my tigers simulation and still in the first month of ‘23.

Anyone else doing a tigers franchise sim? How did you handle Baez and E-rod? Currently they have bloated contracts relative to their abilities.

I did some preliminary trades and was not able to get rid of either of them for nothing due to bloated contracts.

My best guess would be to see how this season plays out, if they play well maybe their market improves so I can move. Otherwise I can try to move next season (assuming they opt in) and just eat a portion of their salary (hopefully minimal).

Thoughts?

I traded Baez and Rodriguez including Cabrerra away for cheap.

[md40022]

Isn't dealing with the bad contracts and the roster flaws of "the previous GM" what makes the game challenging?

Detroit fired their GM for some of the reasons you mention. They hired you to clean up the mess and turn things around...... yeah, dealing with Baez' contract won't be easy, are you the right man for the job?

Lowering the trade settings would be an option, as would redrafting the entire league if you want to take the easy way out..... but if the Tigers are your team and you just took things over, cleaning up the mess is why they hired you. Enjoy the challenge.

As someone who plays with the Cubs, I've always had to deal with the Jason Heyward contract just like someone else mentioned. There were times I'd eat a chunk of the contract just to be able to trade him. Other times I just rode it out, platooning him and a right handed bat, while trying to build some corner OF depth in the minors anticipating the day that his contract finally expired.

[Cod]

Originally Posted by r0nster

I traded Baez and Rodriguez including Cabrerra away for cheap.

What settings were you using? How much of the contracts did you have to keep on your books?

[Pdubya64]

I do a regular Tigers GM Standard game each year (and for the last 4 years).

I have trade difficulty set halfway btw middle and hard (5 steps from either end) to keep me from being able to fleece the league.

The only way to unload Baez and/or E-Rod's contracts is to offer to retain around 50% or likely higher as part of the agreement. The AI on harder settings is able to recognize a stinker deal when it sees one. So, typically I just plunge on and play them as starters and deal with it.

As others have said above, you are really waiting for Cabrera to retire and release that $32M back into your pool of money to have options. In the meantime... this is my current formula.

1. I trade away (Shop usually) 2B Schoop Day 1 for what prospects or regulars I can get so as to clear his $7.5M off the books immediately so you can afford items 3 and 4 below. This year it seems the Yankees don't value Oswaldo Cabrera at 2B/OF and he is a 24yr old with 50ish POT, so I snatch him up if offered.

2. Adjust your Player Development, Draft Budget and Scouting Budgets- I typically round them down to free up a bit of money.

3. Start filling your Farm System on Day One: Go to Free Agents, sort by All Players and Potential. I start at the top, left click on the player and investigate if they want a minimum signing bonus. If so, they need to be a really good fit or forget them- you don't have the money to spare. Find younger FAs 17-25ish yrs and if you like the look of them offer a Minor league contract. A few of the best young talents may warrant offering the Minor plus $10K to entice them to sign early with you instead of letting them sift through 20 team's Minor League contract offer sheets. Use your UP/DOWN arrow keys to move from the top of the list downwards and pick and choose which ones to offer. Most of the ones you want are 20/50 or so possibly up to the 40/40 kind of guys for AAA, but know that they are more picky about who they will sign with, so if they want more $$, just let them sign with another team. DO NOT withdraw your minor league offer, that is a mistake and will earn you a bad reputation around the league.

4. Immediately after #3, also on Day ONE: Fire (typically) a whole crap-ton of Major and Minor level staff that don't meet your minimum requirements, then go through very deliberately and decide on the replacements. Average ability should be your cutoff, anything below that other than the rare outlier high coach ability with an associated Fair somewhere else is as mediocre as I am willing to tolerate. You can't build a good farm system with dung for coaches and staff. There are plenty of good candidates if you do it Day ONE, so don't put it off. NOTE: This is going to cost you about $4-6M in staff expenses paying off the fired coaches contracts, but it has to be done or your coaches will be working against your efforts to improve the Tigers Farm System. (As phenom points out below: an alternative is to keep some of the mediocre ones until their contracts end in order to save some money on Staff Expenses) At the Major League level, find Bench, 1B and 3B coaches who are top-notch teachers and have them fill the "Roles" to teach Catching, IF, OF and Running in the best way possible. 1B and especially 3B coaches also need a good "In-Game Running" rating to control taking extra bases, etc. Also, when choosing coaches, try to find ones that the team players will have a good relationship with as it helps, same with coach to coach relationships. Another Tip: Get rid of (or avoid) any Poor Work Ethic players, they are a cancer to your team. Poor Intelligence is more a personal choice, they just don't learn as fast as others.

Assuming you are retaining AJ Hinch, note his sheet and that he retains control of hiring a Hitting Coach. So, this year I just left the current HC alone. You can fire the HC, but you have no say about who Hinch chooses to replace him, so it's potluck. (This hiring takes as much as a week or so for the AI to do). Pick your poison. If you are replacing the Head Scout, DO NOT fire him until you have scouted and offered all the FAs you intend to for a few days or you will have to rely on less accurate OSA scouting reports until his replacement agrees to a contract!

When choosing new coaches I want the best ability I can get (Pitching/Hitting) or a more general positive ability set for Mgrs. For your minor leagues, don't forget to emphasize Development and Mechanics (to a lessor extent) as this is what you want them for.

You have a minor league manager named Yepez who will make a much better Hitting Coach than Manager, so once you have fired those coaches you don't want, appoint Yepez to either A, A+ or AA level as Hitting Coach.

5. Once the above is done, start advancing the day one by one; staff will respond how they feel about the offer then sign soon after if it is OK. You can cut the amount they request to save $, but beware doing it much more than a few $1000 for the best coaches as they know what they are worth in most cases. At some point the FAs will start responding and signing with you. Find them once signed and make sure they are in an appropriate level R, A, A+, etc. When in doubt look at their history and use the WAR on the far right as your guide as to whether they are ready for a level or should go down a tier.

In 2023, so far I have not gotten any trade offers from other clubs (playing on +5 hard), so there may not be much to do other than considering if you have players who you feel don't fit your plan and you have a replacement strategy for them. If so, use Shop Player or Trade to see what you can get. Sometimes I am surprised by which players are valued vs. others. As an example, I tend to demote Alexander RP, who is "Unmotivated" to AAA as he has an option and isn't likely to contribute enough to warrant putting up with his attitude (and lousy Stuff and Movement ratings). If memory serves there is a suitable RP at AAA to promote in his place. Note that you need to pare down the roster to 26 prior to opening day anyway, so you may not need a replacement for Alexander.

6. Opening Day: You need to scan the Waiver Wire daily- it is your best chance as one of the worst teams in Baseball to pluck other better teams' marginal players that they need to DFA from them and make use of to improve your team. However, you really need to have a strategy about who you are looking for like a lefty specialist to get out those LH batters, etc. I tend to use these "fishing" expeditions to allow me to either send down a player I intend to replace with the Waiver acquisition who has an Option year left OR use Shop Player to see what you can get for them to further feather your Farm System "nest". You can afford to be choosy, and you need to be too, remember that Waiver players who have Major League contracts must be on your 40-man roster; make sure they are someone you want to have active if they don't have any options remaining or have the ability to refuse a minor league assignment- otherwise you just screwed yourself.
Slowly and steadily progress on separating the wheat from the chaff with your farm system. Get rid of players too old for their team that have lousy potential unless they have a redeeming stat like high movement for pitchers. I tend to jettison players who are older and who I have enough alternates at their position.

Visit your existing players and new FAs at the farm and play around with changing their position and get feedback on how it changes their Current/Potential ratings; this is one area OOTP doesn't hold your hand. If you don't do the homework and find which players might be better at position X, Y or Z, then they will just develop as they came to you, perhaps with a few token positions started due to roster gaps where the coach assigned them. Don't leave it up to the game AI or you are missing out. This kind of secondary detective work on your part as GM is where OOTP shines and you can really dig your Baseball chops into developing a team for the long haul. That is just scratching the surface, another is learning and making use of custom local and global views to have information where and when you need it. (I am still working on this one myself)



Well, that's all I have for now. Hope it is helpful for someone.

[r0nster]

Originally Posted by Cod

What settings were you using? How much of the contracts did you have to keep on your books?

I retained 50% of the salary and i did a look at each teams salary cap and space availble cash. I asked for minor league players and 3rd rounders . caberra waved NTC for only a few teams allowing me to trade him away. i didnt care how bad the deal was for caberra. baez
settings were default.... unfortunately the save was corrupted after 7 seasons and i forgotten to do a backup after each season so back to square one.
now i am doing a fantasy league and backing it up already 6 seasons in and had a player hit .398 and 3 minor league players hit .400 albiet low minors high on talent LOL nope not my system

[futuremarlinsgm]

Originally Posted by Pdubya64

I do a regular Tigers GM Standard game each year (and for the last 4 years).

I have trade difficulty set halfway btw middle and hard (5 steps from either end) to keep me from being able to fleece the league.

The only way to unload Baez and/or E-Rod's contracts is to offer to retain around 50% or likely higher as part of the agreement. The AI on harder settings is able to recognize a stinker deal when it sees one. So, typically I just plunge on and play them as starters and deal with it.

As others have said above, you are really waiting for Cabrera to retire and release that $32M back into your pool of money to have options. In the meantime... this is my current formula.

1. I trade away (Shop usually) 2B Schoop Day 1 for what prospects or regulars I can get so as to clear his $7.5M off the books immediately so you can afford items 3 and 4 below. This year it seems the Yankees don't value Oswaldo Cabrera at 2B/OF and he is a 24yr old with 50ish POT, so I snatch him up if offered.

2. Adjust your Player Development, Draft Budget and Scouting Budgets- I typically round them down to free up a bit of money.

3. Start filling your Farm System on Day One: Go to Free Agents, sort by All Players and Potential. I start at the top, left click on the player and investigate if they want a minimum signing bonus. If so, they need to be a really good fit or forget them- you don't have the money to spare. Find younger FAs 17-25ish yrs and if you like the look of them offer a Minor league contract. A few of the best young talents may warrant offering the Minor plus $10K to entice them to sign early with you instead of letting them sift through 20 team's Minor League contract offer sheets. Use your UP/DOWN arrow keys to move from the top of the list downwards and pick and choose which ones to offer. Most of the ones you want are 20/50 or so possibly up to the 40/40 kind of guys for AAA, but know that they are more picky about who they will sign with, so if they want more $$, just let them sign with another team. DO NOT withdraw your minor league offer, that is a mistake and will earn you a bad reputation around the league.

4. Immediately after #3, also on Day ONE: Fire (typically) a whole crap-ton of Major and Minor level staff that don't meet your minimum requirements, then go through very deliberately and decide on the replacements. Average ability should be your cutoff, anything below that other than the rare outlier high coach ability with an associated Fair somewhere else is as mediocre as I am willing to tolerate. You can't build a good farm system with dung for coaches and staff. There are plenty of good candidates if you do it Day ONE, so don't put it off. NOTE: This is going to cost you about $4-6M in staff expenses paying off the fired coaches contracts, but it has to be done or your coaches will be working against your efforts to improve the Tigers Farm System. At the Major League level, find Bench, 1B and 3B coaches who are top-notch teachers and have them fill the "Roles" to teach Catching, IF, OF and Running in the best way possible. 1B and especially 3B coaches also need a good "In-Game Running" rating to control taking extra bases, etc. Also, when choosing coaches, try to find ones that the team players will have a good relationship with as it helps, same with coach to coach relationships. Another Tip: Get rid of (or avoid) any Poor Work Ethic players, they are a cancer to your team. Poor Intelligence is more a personal choice, they just don't learn as fast as others.

Assuming you are retaining AJ Hinch, note his sheet and that he retains control of hiring a Hitting Coach. So, this year I just left the current HC alone. You can fire the HC, but you have no say about who Hinch chooses to replace him, so it's potluck. (This hiring takes as much as a week or so for the AI to do). Pick your poison. If you are replacing the Head Scout, DO NOT fire him until you have scouted and offered all the FAs you intend to for a few days or you will have to rely on less accurate OSA scouting reports until his replacement agrees to a contract!

When choosing new coaches I want the best ability I can get (Pitching/Hitting) or a more general positive ability set for Mgrs. For your minor leagues, don't forget to emphasize Development and Mechanics (to a lessor extent) as this is what you want them for.

You have a minor league manager named Yepez who will make a much better Hitting Coach than Manager, so once you have fired those coaches you don't want, appoint Yepez to either A, A+ or AA level as Hitting Coach.

5. Once the above is done, start advancing the day one by one; staff will respond how they feel about the offer then sign soon after if it is OK. You can cut the amount they request to save $, but beware doing it much more than a few $1000 for the best coaches as they know what they are worth in most cases. At some point the FAs will start responding and signing with you. Find them once signed and make sure they are in an appropriate level R, A, A+, etc. When in doubt look at their history and use the WAR on the far right as your guide as to whether they are ready for a level or should go down a tier.

In 2023, so far I have not gotten any trade offers from other clubs (playing on +5 hard), so there may not be much to do other than considering if you have players who you feel don't fit your plan and you have a replacement strategy for them. If so, use Shop Player or Trade to see what you can get. Sometimes I am surprised by which players are valued vs. others. As an example, I tend to demote Alexander RP, who is "Unmotivated" to AAA as he has an option and isn't likely to contribute enough to warrant putting up with his attitude (and lousy Stuff and Movement ratings). If memory serves there is a suitable RP at AAA to promote in his place. Note that you need to pare down the roster to 26 prior to opening day anyway, so you may not need a replacement for Alexander.

6. Opening Day: You need to scan the Waiver Wire daily- it is your best chance as one of the worst teams in Baseball to pluck other better teams' marginal players that they need to DFA from them and make use of to improve your team. However, you really need to have a strategy about who you are looking for like a lefty specialist to get out those LH batters, etc. I tend to use these "fishing" expeditions to allow me to either send down a player I intend to replace with the Waiver acquisition who has an Option year left OR use Shop Player to see what you can get for them to further feather your Farm System "nest". You can afford to be choosy, and you need to be too, remember that Waiver players who have Major League contracts must be on your 40-man roster; make sure they are someone you want to have active if they don't have any options remaining or the ability to refuse a minor league assignment- otherwise you just screwed yourself.
Slowly and steadily progress on separating the wheat from the chaff with your farm system. Get rid of players too old for their team that have lousy potential unless they have a redeeming stat like high movement for pitchers. I tend to jettison players who are older and who I have enough alternates at their position.

Visit your existing players and new FAs at the farm and play around with changing their position and get feedback on how it changes their Current/Potential ratings; this is one area OOTP doesn't hold your hand. If you don't do the homework and find which players might be better at position X, Y or Z, then they will just develop as they came to you, perhaps with a few token positions started due to roster gaps where the coach assigned them. Don't leave it up to the game AI or you are missing out. This kind of secondary detective work on your part as GM is where OOTP shines and you can really dig your Baseball chops into developing a team for the long haul. That is just scratching the surface, another is learning and making use of custom local and global views to have information where and when you need it. (I am still working on this one myself)



Well, that's all I have for now. Hope it is helpful for someone.

Thank you for bringing up the importance of the quality of minor league coaches. I never even considered this, but will definitely implement this strategy as, a Miami Marlins fan, this will be critical to developing a low market team into a contender.

[AirmenSmith]

So sometimes what I do for bloated contracts is this.



I'll use shop a player and just throw the player in there. If I get nothing then what I will do is start retaining some salary. I'll keep doing that until I get my first set of offers. Now the first set of offers I get I look for contracts that have less years then the player I am trying to unload.


Once I find the best one with less years I'll go discuss it with that team. At this point I will slowly reduce the amount retained and then use the "Make it work now" button to see what they want. I'll keep repeating that as often as I can to get it to the lowest or until they say they want a good prospect.


---
Another option is shop a player while retaining his full amount. See who offers you a player on a 1 year deal. Then do the same above by lowering the retaining amount and balance with a prospect.

[phenom]

In my current Tigers GM sim I'm riding out the Baez contract and I ended up DFA'ing E-Rod with a year and a half left on his contract and ate the dollars. Cabrera retired after the 2023 season. The farm system is terrible, which is why I chose to ride out the contracts but E-Rod got in the way of some development of others with his half-star ratings. I considered wiping out the minors personnel as recommended above but that seemed pretty unrealistic and I was trying to manage costs somewhat. So I fired a handful of coaches in the system and restructured what I could until their contracts got closer to running out.

Also be sure "cannot be fired" is checked. At least for the first 3-4 years. Otherwise you won't make it two seasons.

[Pdubya64]

I re-started a Tigers GM run yesterday and found that in this case, no team is interested in Schoop anymore, even at 50% retained salary. I was running with a 52/28/15/5 setup, which has me wondering if it is making a difference.

Likely some of the changes from the version from the previous game I was referencing have made a difference in how AI GMs are viewing Schoop.

futuremarlins, glad you got something out of the brain dump.

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by Pdubya64

I re-started a Tigers GM run yesterday and found that in this case, no team is interested in Schoop anymore, even at 50% retained salary. I was running with a 52/28/15/5 setup, which has me wondering if it is making a difference.

Likely some of the changes from the version from the previous game I was referencing have made a difference in how AI GMs are viewing Schoop.

futuremarlins, glad you got something out of the brain dump.

I agreed with about 80-90% of the “brain dump” and have done many of those things with marginal teams carrying bloated contracts. For sure, we can disagree on the other 10-20%. Patience is the key to developing a farm system; but it should pay dividends over time. Of course, resist signing FA for short-term (small) gains that don’t make your team competitive. It is really not “tanking” but riding out a period where your team sucks and you are hampered by those ill-advised contracts. I constantly shop players, looking for prospects, and hope that someone fills a need for the AI and generates a decent offer. Another thing to resist is bringing prospects up too soon. The AI does not like that, and it can retard or even ruin their development. On the other hand, monitor particularly the AAA performance of your best (and most mature) prospects. If you see a guy going on a tear, or a pitcher dominating over multiple starts, that might be the AI telling you they are ready. Did I mention patience?

[Pdubya64]

Originally Posted by Pelican

I agreed with about 80-90% of the “brain dump” and have done many of those things with marginal teams carrying bloated contracts. For sure, we can disagree on the other 10-20%. Patience is the key to developing a farm system; but it should pay dividends over time. Of course, resist signing FA for short-term (small) gains that don’t make your team competitive. It is really not “tanking” but riding out a period where your team sucks and you are hampered by those ill-advised contracts. I constantly shop players, looking for prospects, and hope that someone fills a need for the AI and generates a decent offer. Another thing to resist is bringing prospects up too soon. The AI does not like that, and it can retard or even ruin their development. On the other hand, monitor particularly the AAA performance of your best (and most mature) prospects. If you see a guy going on a tear, or a pitcher dominating over multiple starts, that might be the AI telling you they are ready. Did I mention patience?

Thanks for the feedback and perspective Pelican. I am mulling over starting a "Subject/Feedback" thread or something akin to that where I or anyone can postulate how they use a game mechanic and incorporate it with a set of assumptions, and then invite the OOTP community to comment with feedback on if/how they use it, differences, etc.

Maybe someone has already done this in another sub-forum?