Why were the international templates removed?

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Honestly, I hope they all leave, you included. It's a tired conversation. You're damaging OOTP as well with the endless whining and complaining about this situation.

They had to do this. They wouldn't have done it otherwise. B-tching and moaing about it for the 472nd time isn't going to change anything.

Move on. Just freakin move on.

Well the issue that re-surfaced this discussion is that they have removed more from the game which was originally included in OOTP 24....so this is not a tired discussion. It is something entirely new.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

So, what your saying is you don't give a c__p about OOTP or COM2US, right? Apparently if they were to get sued and forced out of business, you would simply move on with something else? It's hard to even take the time to understand your posts then, or give you the benefit of the doubt - and I also think it's time to close this thread up.

No...what I am sayin, is that it was said by Markus himself that they were still going to include international league templates with OOTP 24. They did...only to once again remove them without any mention...poof just gone.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

This may very well be true...but do you think people (customers) actually care? I don't. Some might...but for the most part...people are going to look for what they can get for their money...and in a business like this, you can't go backwards. That's unfortunately what is happening here...OOTP is going in reverse in some aspects. Customers also aren't going to just wait around for 2-3 years while this all gets sorted out. I am not even sure they will wait a year at this point. We live in an instant gratification society...so while I can sympathize with the developers to a point (Com2Us was probably a bad decision) it doesn't mean the majority of customers are just going to say all is forgiven, and we will wait as long as it takes until things are sorted out.

Is it possible that the OOTP developers don't want to pay additional money for licensing fees? Pretty sure this is what happened to the Japanese league. It may be as simple as that.

[rodgerdavies]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Is it possible that the OOTP developers don't want to pay additional money for licensing fees? Pretty sure this is what happened to the Japanese league. It may be as simple as that.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that. There's no one here saying that they should include unlicenced content regardless. But not even being able to create a fictional baseball 'world' at game start is a big backwards step and harder to understand.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Is it possible that the OOTP developers don't want to pay additional money for licensing fees? Pretty sure this is what happened to the Japanese league. It may be as simple as that.

No..that’s not what happened.

[HRBaker]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

No...what I am sayin, is that it was said by Markus himself that they were still going to include international league templates with OOTP 24. They did...only to once again remove them without any mention...poof just gone.

Which logically would tell you something has changed since he made that statement. We're not privy to the day-to-day details, but it's certainly not fair or respectful to "assume" Markus or COM2US simply took the templates out because they wanted to.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

Which logically would tell you something has changed since he made that statement. We're not privy to the day-to-day details, but it's certainly not fair or respectful to "assume" Markus or COM2US simply took the templates out because they wanted to.

Agreed...I am just saying that without templates that are not officially tied to a specific league, this game has really done a 180 degree from what it ws, and in many ways is no longer the same game. Yes, you can build leagues from scratch, but no thanks. It's now an MLB and MLB historical game and that's about it. (KBO)

Sorry I have been around here a long time, and this is just not the same game now. It also is an issue I think to people that they just yanked it, and never even said..."we know we said we would include this, bit now we are not, and taking it out". Instead it was almost done in a very stealthy fashion hoping people might not notice.

[HRBaker]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Agreed...I am just saying that without templates that are not officially tied to a specific league, this game has really done a 180 degree from what it ws, and in many ways is no longer the same game. Yes, you can build leagues from scratch, but no thanks. It's now an MLB and MLB historical game and that's about it. (KBO)

Sorry I have been around here a long time, and this is just not the same game now. It also is an issue I think to people that they just yanked it, and never even said..."we know we said we would include this, bit now we are not, and taking it out". Instead it was almost done in a very stealthy fashion hoping people might not notice.

I am sure that whatever "cease and desist" order they received left little room to talk openly about the details. It was key (to me at least) when Markus posted

"and that's all I can say about that right now"

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

I am sure that whatever "cease and desist" order they received left little room to talk openly about the details. It was key (to me at least) when Markus posted

yes, but after that he said he would be including the templates, and even did so....only to remove them in a new patch without even telling people. I am not talking about the original Japan debacle...I am speaking of just the last couple of days. So whatever issue there was originally seemed ironed out. Now suddenly they are just removing templates that are NOT affiliated with any leagues whatsoever!! Come on!!

[HRBaker]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

yes, but after that he said he would be including the templates, and even did so....only to remove them in a new patch without even telling people. I am not talking about the original Japan debacle...I am speaking of just the last couple of days. So whatever issue there was originally seemed ironed out. Now suddenly they are just removing templates that are NOT affiliated with any leagues whatsoever!! Come on!!

It's not that hard to imagine the lawyers suggested they sit back and lie in the shadows for a while. Lawsuits are expensive, and talking about them opens up the possibility you can be quoted out of context.

[rudel.dietrich]

This has to be why all previous versions of OOTP have been removed from sale as well.

[dishnet34]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

This has to be why all previous versions of OOTP have been removed from sale as well.

If I recall correctly, that was mainly due to the previous backend provider being changed after OOTP22 when it came to Perfect Team content online. It had nothing to do with this current situation.

[Pdubya64]

Guys, this is what happens when a product gets popular enough for certain parties to take notice. It wasn't a big deal back in the day, but entities get pretty upset about precedent regarding their intellectual property and rightfully so honestly.

There have been a number of suits where entities have lost due to their disinterest or lack of defense of IP, etc.

While I am equally not thrilled that the jig is up, until such time as OOTP and their ownership can negotiate licenses with all these leagues we are stuck with what we have. It is infinitely more palatable than OOTP being sued into oblivion.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Pdubya64

Guys, this is what happens when a product gets popular enough for certain parties to take notice. It wasn't a big deal back in the day, but entities get pretty upset about precedent regarding their intellectual property and rightfully so honestly.

There have been a number of suits where entities have lost due to their disinterest or lack of defense of IP, etc.

While I am equally not thrilled that the jig is up, until such time as OOTP and their ownership can negotiate licenses with all these leagues we are stuck with what we have. It is infinitely more palatable than OOTP being sued into oblivion.

I think people recognize what you are saying...but again...this was something that was obviously OK to include in OOTP 24, only to secretly remove it a week later. Why no announcement at least saying :"hey, due to reasons beyond our control, we are removing the templates"? (even though I still think this is way overboard)

[thevaliantx]

[snipped]

[thevaliantx]

Originally Posted by Pdubya64

Guys, this is what happens when a product gets popular enough for certain parties to take notice. It wasn't a big deal back in the day, but entities get pretty upset about precedent regarding their intellectual property and rightfully so honestly.

There have been a number of suits where entities have lost due to their disinterest or lack of defense of IP, etc.

While I am equally not thrilled that the jig is up, until such time as OOTP and their ownership can negotiate licenses with all these leagues we are stuck with what we have. It is infinitely more palatable than OOTP being sued into oblivion.

LOL, nobody who matters 'noticed' the game. You just like to think that was the case. Everyone should have known when the game changed hands that it was going to more and more resemble the types of games the parent company has made in the past.

[PSUColonel]

That is one of the great things about FM & SEGA. They seem to really be on the same page in terms of what they want the product to be. Now I am not saying OOTP & Com2US are at odds, but I would certainly say at the very least that the perception of where OOTP is headed is a major departure from its original roots.

[HRBaker]

“The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it.” ~ George Bernard Shaw

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Honestly, I hope they all leave, you included. It's a tired conversation. You're damaging OOTP as well with the endless whining and complaining about this situation.

They had to do this. They wouldn't have done it otherwise. B-tching and moaing about it for the 472nd time isn't going to change anything.

Move on. Just freakin move on.

Hear hear.

It's a shame how far downhill these forums have gone in just the last 3-4 months.

[Cactusguy21]

Originally Posted by Pdubya64

Guys, this is what happens when a product gets popular enough for certain parties to take notice. It wasn't a big deal back in the day, but entities get pretty upset about precedent regarding their intellectual property and rightfully so honestly.

There have been a number of suits where entities have lost due to their disinterest or lack of defense of IP, etc.

While I am equally not thrilled that the jig is up, until such time as OOTP and their ownership can negotiate licenses with all these leagues we are stuck with what we have. It is infinitely more palatable than OOTP being sued into oblivion.

But a fictional template for a fictional league in a real world country is COMPLETELY UNRELATED to what you are talking about! Who would even sue over a template for a fictional "Mexican Baseball League"????