When is it considered running up the score?

miami_fan · 11-12-2003, 02:35 PM

Those of you who follow college football have heard of the controversy that occured in the aftermath of Oklahoma's drubbing of Texas A&M 77-0. For those of you who have not heard, Mike Lupica ripped Bob Stoops for running up the score. Now Lupica admitted not seeing the game and the point of contention for him was that Jason White was still throwing passes after the score reached 35-0. Now I always have been of the belief that while you may pull your starters when you have a big lead, you owe it to your backups to coach the game as if the score was nothing and if that meant calling pass plays so be it. It is the other team's job to stop you. I have never understood the sense in sending your 3rd string running on a dive play into an 11 man front or not giving the backup or third string QB an opportunity to show if he could throw passes in a game situation. Of course this kind of thinking has been called unsportsmanlike in the past. So what is a coach supposed to do when he has a team that is obviously more talented than its opponent? Is this a no win situation for a high quality team? At what point does the team deserve criticism for running up the score?

Eckstein 4 Prez · 11-12-2003, 02:48 PM

Considering Oklahoma could've hung a triple-digit on A&M without any problem, 77-0 isn't running up the score in this case.

KurtBevacqua · 11-12-2003, 02:50 PM

I agree this is a no win situation. I didn't see the game, but I saw a highlight where the backup QB was actually taking a knee on 1st and goal at the 5 up 77-0 with plenty of time to play. That doesn't sound like the actions of a team running up the score.

I also recall an Ohio State game I went to in college several years ago. OSU jumped to a 52-0 lead in the 2nd quarter (they were scoring on virtually every play) when John Cooper emptied the bench. Iowa kept their starters in against OSU 3rd stringers and the final wound up 52-35, and I recall Cooper took a lot of heat for calling off the dogs so early. I think OSU even lost votes in the polls because it looked like a much closer game than was expected from Iowa, when it really was a huge blowout. That game easily could have been 77-0 and he would have been criticized for piling on.

I think the problem isn't so much Bob Stoops as it is reporters who don't have a flippin clue what they are talking about sometimes and are just trying to get a good soundbite on TV.

Rizon · 11-12-2003, 03:19 PM

I am one of those people that believes in running up a score. If a team is THAT bad, then they deserve to be embarrassed as much as possible. If you can't take it, then don't play anymore (and obviously you shouldn't if you get beat that bad). I don't believe in the Metrosexual/feminine POV of "oh, go easy on them, thats not a gentlemen thing to do! I love flowers!". Pfffffffffft ... this is a mans game, play it like a man, or go play bowling with the women.

Enkiel · 11-12-2003, 03:19 PM

i dont see a problem in kick someone until the real end... really, if you suck, people gotta show you the hard way sometime...

no reason why leading 40 pts, you should risk to lose it 41-40 just because you dont want the other team to look as bas as they are

andjbock · 11-12-2003, 05:18 PM

How many times have great comebacks occured in pro sports?

Plenty..

Run it up, you never know what will happen.

MrDynasty · 11-12-2003, 05:20 PM

I adhere to the old Barry Switzer philosophy: "If you don't want to get beat by big scores, play better!"

LivnLegend · 11-12-2003, 05:28 PM

A few things to consider:

1. Texas A&M derailed OU’s title chances last year with an upset win. A little payback is fine. Also, it sends a little message to everyone else as well. No problem there, especially in this day and age of the BCS.

2. Mike Lupica is a weasel.

3. It could have been worse. Look at this series late in the game:

1-10 at TA&M 39 Dan Townsend (OKLA) rushed up the middle for 3 yards.
2-7 at TA&M 36 Dan Townsend (OKLA) rushed up the middle for 2 yards.
3-5 at TA&M 34 Dan Townsend (OKLA) rushed up the middle for 4 yards.
4-1 at TA&M 30 Dan Townsend (OKLA) rushed up the middle for 2 yards.

Further, see this depth chart for OU’s backs:
Oklahoma Depth Chart
Fullback
1. J.D. Runnels
2. Shawn Farria
3. Dan Townsend.

What the heck was Stoops supposed to do? Have his 3rd string back kneel four straight times? Is it Coach Stoops' fault that the Aggie D couldn't stop a simple hand-off up the middle?
If you're a third stringer like Townsend who rarely gets playing time, how would you feel if the coach put you in the game to lay down? It's not going to happen.

4. This does not apply in this case but small schools that schedule powerhouses in non-Conference games and get their butts whipped get no sympathy from me, no matter how much the powerhouse runs up the score. They agree to schedule these games for one thing: money. If they take money at the expense of embarrassing their colligate players, shame on the University and the athletic dept, not the powerhouse that runs up the score.

akw4572 · 11-12-2003, 05:30 PM

I blame A&M for sucking. Heck, I beat another HS baseball team 31-7 last year. I was holding guys at 3b from scoring and then the next guy was hitting a HR. It is a no win situation. I felt bad, and I would bet Stoops isn't calling buddies to brag on the score.

saves the day82 · 11-12-2003, 11:55 PM

it is NEVER running up the score as long as college football uses the useless BCS system that counts margin of victory as a part of determining who goes to the championship game.

Skipaway · 11-13-2003, 12:02 AM

Er, BCS don't count the margin of victory anymore.

CBL-Commish · 11-13-2003, 07:59 AM

"I'll have my base runners stop stealing bases when the other team's batters agree to stop hitting home runs." - Whitey Herzog

It's only running up the score when the other team agrees to stop trying and you keep smashing their heads in. I've yet to see the other team agree to stop trying.

Skipaway · 11-13-2003, 08:15 AM

So the only other way would be mercy rules. Nobody would want that I guess.

miami_fan · 11-13-2003, 08:21 AM

WOW Maybe Steve Spurrier was not such a bad guy after all........NAH!

Eckstein 4 Prez · 11-13-2003, 10:31 AM

I'm not exactly sure that "never" is the answer to "when is it considered running up the score." After all, if Stoops had left his first-stringers in, or even if he'd called a bunch of aggressive trick plays with his scrubs, I'd feel like that was a bit much given the margin.

However, under the circumstances he was clearly not doing anything out of line.

JWay · 11-13-2003, 10:34 AM

I think you should keep playing hard until the game clock runs out. Running up the score isn't running up the score when you got back ups playing hard still against your starters.

Joe Morgan · 11-13-2003, 02:07 PM

I believe you play hard win or lose, whether you're up or down. How are you supposed to teach these young kids to always play hard and then tell them to go out there and lay down? I was brought up to always hustle and that's what these kids should be doing.

saves the day82 · 11-22-2003, 03:03 PM

whoops...ummm I knew that (obviously I don't keep up with college football as much as I should

Boozie1580 · 11-23-2003, 06:44 PM

- You PLAY to WIN the GAME. HELLO!?!??

11-12-2003, 02:35 PM	#1
miami_fan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Panama City, FL Posts: 152	When is it considered running up the score? Those of you who follow college football have heard of the controversy that occured in the aftermath of Oklahoma's drubbing of Texas A&M 77-0. For those of you who have not heard, Mike Lupica ripped Bob Stoops for running up the score. Now Lupica admitted not seeing the game and the point of contention for him was that Jason White was still throwing passes after the score reached 35-0. Now I always have been of the belief that while you may pull your starters when you have a big lead, you owe it to your backups to coach the game as if the score was nothing and if that meant calling pass plays so be it. It is the other team's job to stop you. I have never understood the sense in sending your 3rd string running on a dive play into an 11 man front or not giving the backup or third string QB an opportunity to show if he could throw passes in a game situation. Of course this kind of thinking has been called unsportsmanlike in the past. So what is a coach supposed to do when he has a team that is obviously more talented than its opponent? Is this a no win situation for a high quality team? At what point does the team deserve criticism for running up the score?

11-12-2003, 02:50 PM	#3
KurtBevacqua Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,968	I agree this is a no win situation. I didn't see the game, but I saw a highlight where the backup QB was actually taking a knee on 1st and goal at the 5 up 77-0 with plenty of time to play. That doesn't sound like the actions of a team running up the score. I also recall an Ohio State game I went to in college several years ago. OSU jumped to a 52-0 lead in the 2nd quarter (they were scoring on virtually every play) when John Cooper emptied the bench. Iowa kept their starters in against OSU 3rd stringers and the final wound up 52-35, and I recall Cooper took a lot of heat for calling off the dogs so early. I think OSU even lost votes in the polls because it looked like a much closer game than was expected from Iowa, when it really was a huge blowout. That game easily could have been 77-0 and he would have been criticized for piling on. I think the problem isn't so much Bob Stoops as it is reporters who don't have a flippin clue what they are talking about sometimes and are just trying to get a good soundbite on TV. __________________ "The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man" - William Graham Sumner

11-12-2003, 03:19 PM	#4
Rizon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SF Area, California Total Posts: 531,691 Posts: 2,370	I am one of those people that believes in running up a score. If a team is THAT bad, then they deserve to be embarrassed as much as possible. If you can't take it, then don't play anymore (and obviously you shouldn't if you get beat that bad). I don't believe in the Metrosexual/feminine POV of "oh, go easy on them, thats not a gentlemen thing to do! I love flowers!". Pfffffffffft ... this is a mans game, play it like a man, or go play bowling with the women. __________________ JML MILKSHAKES

11-12-2003, 03:19 PM	#5
Enkiel Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Québec City Posts: 155	i dont see a problem in kick someone until the real end... really, if you suck, people gotta show you the hard way sometime... no reason why leading 40 pts, you should risk to lose it 41-40 just because you dont want the other team to look as bas as they are __________________ Taken from Quebec's TV Show : You know why we love Viet Nam people so much? they won agains USA

11-12-2003, 05:28 PM	#8
LivnLegend Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 100% pure adrenaline! Posts: 5,624	A few things to consider: 1. Texas A&M derailed OU’s title chances last year with an upset win. A little payback is fine. Also, it sends a little message to everyone else as well. No problem there, especially in this day and age of the BCS. 2. Mike Lupica is a weasel. 3. It could have been worse. Look at this series late in the game: 1-10 at TA&M 39 Dan Townsend (OKLA) rushed up the middle for 3 yards. 2-7 at TA&M 36 Dan Townsend (OKLA) rushed up the middle for 2 yards. 3-5 at TA&M 34 Dan Townsend (OKLA) rushed up the middle for 4 yards. 4-1 at TA&M 30 Dan Townsend (OKLA) rushed up the middle for 2 yards. Further, see this depth chart for OU’s backs: Oklahoma Depth Chart Fullback 1. J.D. Runnels 2. Shawn Farria 3. Dan Townsend. What the heck was Stoops supposed to do? Have his 3rd string back kneel four straight times? Is it Coach Stoops' fault that the Aggie D couldn't stop a simple hand-off up the middle? If you're a third stringer like Townsend who rarely gets playing time, how would you feel if the coach put you in the game to lay down? It's not going to happen. 4. This does not apply in this case but small schools that schedule powerhouses in non-Conference games and get their butts whipped get no sympathy from me, no matter how much the powerhouse runs up the score. They agree to schedule these games for one thing: money. If they take money at the expense of embarrassing their colligate players, shame on the University and the athletic dept, not the powerhouse that runs up the score. __________________ Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling.

11-12-2003, 02:48 PM	#2
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	Considering Oklahoma could've hung a triple-digit on A&M without any problem, 77-0 isn't running up the score in this case.

11-12-2003, 05:18 PM	#6
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,640	How many times have great comebacks occured in pro sports? Plenty.. Run it up, you never know what will happen.

11-12-2003, 05:20 PM	#7
MrDynasty Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 36	I adhere to the old Barry Switzer philosophy: "If you don't want to get beat by big scores, play better!"

11-12-2003, 05:30 PM	#9
akw4572 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,601	I blame A&M for sucking. Heck, I beat another HS baseball team 31-7 last year. I was holding guys at 3b from scoring and then the next guy was hitting a HR. It is a no win situation. I felt bad, and I would bet Stoops isn't calling buddies to brag on the score.

11-12-2003, 11:55 PM	#10
saves the day82 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: california Posts: 69	it is NEVER running up the score as long as college football uses the useless BCS system that counts margin of victory as a part of determining who goes to the championship game.

11-13-2003, 12:02 AM	#11
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	Er, BCS don't count the margin of victory anymore. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

11-13-2003, 07:59 AM	#12
CBL-Commish All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,999	"I'll have my base runners stop stealing bases when the other team's batters agree to stop hitting home runs." - Whitey Herzog It's only running up the score when the other team agrees to stop trying and you keep smashing their heads in. I've yet to see the other team agree to stop trying. __________________ For the best in O's news: Orioles' Hangout.com

11-13-2003, 08:15 AM	#13
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	So the only other way would be mercy rules. Nobody would want that I guess. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

11-13-2003, 08:21 AM	#14
miami_fan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Panama City, FL Posts: 152	WOW Maybe Steve Spurrier was not such a bad guy after all........NAH!

11-13-2003, 10:31 AM	#15
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	I'm not exactly sure that "never" is the answer to "when is it considered running up the score." After all, if Stoops had left his first-stringers in, or even if he'd called a bunch of aggressive trick plays with his scrubs, I'd feel like that was a bit much given the margin. However, under the circumstances he was clearly not doing anything out of line.

11-13-2003, 10:34 AM	#16
JWay Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 5,031	I think you should keep playing hard until the game clock runs out. Running up the score isn't running up the score when you got back ups playing hard still against your starters.

11-13-2003, 02:07 PM	#17
Joe Morgan Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 273	I believe you play hard win or lose, whether you're up or down. How are you supposed to teach these young kids to always play hard and then tell them to go out there and lay down? I was brought up to always hustle and that's what these kids should be doing. __________________ Clutch ability and veteran leadership are two of the most important intangibles that it takes to win.

11-22-2003, 03:03 PM	#18
saves the day82 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: california Posts: 69	whoops...ummm I knew that (obviously I don't keep up with college football as much as I should

11-23-2003, 06:44 PM	#19
Boozie1580 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: MD Posts: 1,255	- You PLAY to WIN the GAME. HELLO!?!??