Is there a need for an unofficial forum now?

[ashantewarrier]

Unofficial Forum = Reddit

[ashantewarrier]

But seriously, I see no need to redirect to an “unofficial forum.” The guidelines and rules are pretty clear and not hard to abide by. No personal attacks or trolling allowed, and don’t bring up the redacted league.

[BaseballGOAT]

Originally Posted by ashantewarrier

But seriously, I see no need to redirect to an “unofficial forum.” The guidelines and rules are pretty clear and not hard to abide by. No personal attacks or trolling allowed, and don’t bring up the redacted league.

Eventually tho there will be mods that can't be discussed here. I think everyone misunderstood what my question was really heading to. I'm not saying it's hard to abide by any of the rules. Just saying there will be things in the future it could be better to insulate the main forums from

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by BaseballGOAT

Eventually tho there will be mods that can't be discussed here. I think everyone misunderstood what my question was really heading to. I'm not saying it's hard to abide by any of the rules. Just saying there will be things in the future it could be better to insulate the main forums from

This is the exact reason I was trying to suggest an alternative “fan site” similar to what FM has with various independent sites with their own forums, mod sections etc…it was met with sharp criticism however…

[pauwoo]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

This is the exact reason I was trying to suggest an alternative “fan site” similar to what FM has with various independent sites with their own forums, mod sections etc…it was met with sharp criticism however…

Wasn't the general consensus that the modding activity on OOTP, especially relative to FM, would not support it? That the cost would outweigh the benefit to the community?

And there was also some suggestion of using Discord for the purpose of sharing user generated content in a cost-efficient way if I recall correctly. There were even a few people who liked the general idea. But sharp criticism? Like people bashing the idea angrily? There was no chastisement, no admonishment, no finger pointing, no angry rhetoric... just a sizable group of folks who didn't think that the OOTP modding community, such that it exists, would support it.

Prove the people who didn't like your idea wrong. Start a website, pay for the hosting with enough space to house the mods, jerseys, whatever, get someone to code it, establish a message board, some rules, appoint a mod or two, make sure you set it up securely to protect your end users, and start working to get people attracted to it. DIY, man.

You are the architect of your own destiny. Chart a course and make it happen, Cap'n.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by pauwoo

Wasn't the general consensus that the modding activity on OOTP, especially relative to FM, would not support it? That the cost would outweigh the benefit to the community?

And there was also some suggestion of using Discord for the purpose of sharing user generated content in a cost-efficient way if I recall correctly. There were even a few people who liked the general idea. But sharp criticism? Like people bashing the idea angrily? There was no chastisement, no admonishment, no finger pointing, no angry rhetoric... just a sizable group of folks who didn't think that the OOTP modding community, such that it exists, would support it.

Prove the people who didn't like your idea wrong. Start a website, pay for the hosting with enough space to house the mods, jerseys, whatever, get someone to code it, establish a message board, some rules, appoint a mod or two, make sure you set it up securely to protect your end users, and start working to get people attracted to it. DIY, man.

You are the architect of your own destiny. Chart a course and make it happen, Cap'n.

You are correct...not everyone criticized the idea, but certain people did. I have had this discussion in a few different threads. I don't mind disagreement ever...but there also seems to be a merry band of brothers around here who like to frequently urinate on ideas, and not really brainstorm much themselves...yet they feel they are always in the "right", and any idea that might contradict their thoughts or opinions must be either shamed, cancelled, or shut down. They operate like a hive, and have a hive-like mentality to match.

Anyway, I still think this would be an idea worthy of serious examination...as I have said many times in the past, I am not the most tech savvy person when it comes to these types of things, but I am sure I could learn. The real issue for me though is that I have just become apathetic after all of this.

[BaseballGOAT]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

You are correct...not everyone criticized the idea, but certain people did. I have had this discussion in a few different threads. I don't mind disagreement ever...but there also seems to be a merry band of brothers around here who like to frequently urinate on ideas, and not really brainstorm much themselves...yet they feel they are always in the "right", and any idea that might contradict their thoughts or opinions must be either shamed, cancelled, or shut down. They operate like a hive, and have a hive-like mentality to match.

Anyway, I still think this would be an idea worthy of serious examination...as I have said many times in the past, I am not the most tech savvy person when it comes to these types of things, but I am sure I could learn. The real issue for me though is that I have just become apathetic after all of this.

PSU
The difference in what I'm talking about and what you were talking about is a bunch of money. You were wanting a website like FM fan sites that is gonna take money to host, and would be no less than a part time job for someone. I think a bunch of us questioned if there is enough OOTP modding going on to make the cost worthwhile.

I'm talking about a free forum and links to free hosting

[pauwoo]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

But there also seems to be a merry band of brothers around here who like to frequently urinate on ideas, and not really brainstorm much themselves...yet they feel they are always in the "right", and any idea that might contradict their thoughts or opinions must be either shamed, cancelled, or shut down. They operate like a hive, and have a hive-like mentality to match.

Sorry that you're getting this vibe - I don't really feel that way myself, and, when I read through most of the stuff on the board, I don't really see the shaming, etc. I do see that when people levy a critique, there are a group of folks who make, mostly, sincere attempts to engage, to uncover why a person feels something is a limitation, and offer their opinion on why it is not. Sometimes, it gets tiresome and feels like a defend at all costs response. And sometimes they do jump on people - this happened with a recently banned poster who was unhappy with the GM mode of the game... every time he posted you could count on 3-4 regulars getting after him. But, to be fair - in retrospect, the kid kind of earned it. He didn't want real discourse, he just wanted to bash the game. And, that's totally fine - on Reddit. Or Twitter. Or, I don't know, Tik Tok. Do people talk about OOTP on Tik Tok? They should. It'd be a lot cooler if they did.

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

The real issue for me though is that I have just become apathetic after all of this.

I totally get how recent events have turned people off of the game. There's been a real, fundamental misunderstanding of what actually happened and why it likely happened in my view. Not worth going into - I've posted my view in many of the threads and fully admit it includes a material amount of conjecture. I would challenge you, though, to remember what you still have in front of you and that is this magically, pliable, nearly unlimited sandbox with an unparalled simulation engine (in terms of baseball games, anyway) that you can use to create the framework of almost any baseball league structure, world, etc that you can think of. And, yeah, the #2 league in the world is no longer included beyond build 110, and that means a lot more than just those logos, rules, etc - but real world players that went poof limiting the realism players can achieve... and that sucks, for sure. But, you can still create a deep, engaging, and satisfying save without it. One that, if you give into your imagination, can become as real as the games we go and see in person, with our family, friends, kids, whatever. 23 is still a great game, not without its flaws, but great nonetheless.

[BaseballGOAT]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Anyway, I still think this would be an idea worthy of serious examination...as I have said many times in the past, I am not the most tech savvy person when it comes to these types of things, but I am sure I could learn. The real issue for me though is that I have just become apathetic after all of this.

If you decide to do something with this idea, I've got a bunch of mods cataloged on my onedrive going back years.

One thing to consider would be to have the site designed professionally, and then you'd just have to learn the upkeep side of it.

[bigd51]

I haven't read through this whole thread, but for what it's worth, Reddit isn't nearly as bad (or as "Wild West") as people claim it is. In fact, if you find the right communities, you get reasonable and fun discussions. If you go looking for toxic communities, you'll find them as well. I'm not a regular Reddit user, but over the past 3-4 years posting occasionally and lurking mostly, I've never run into any issues w/ toxic communities unless I've gone looking for them.

Really, the main problem w/ Reddit -- at least when it comes to sports games like OOTP -- is the subreddits are usually flooded w/ screenshots of "Look at this prospects ratings!!" (where the prospect is 17 or 18 w/ ubiquitous high potentials) and "Check out Mike Trout's legendary career!!" (where he plays until he's 46 years old, never lost ratings, and hit like 900+ career HRs in an entirely unrealistic fashion like the poster didn't "Commish" his career and messed w/ settings to achieve said results). So it's hard to find meaningful in-depth posts about the inner workings of the game.

Another small hindrance for first-time users is the rules for each subreddit and abiding by said rules. Every subreddit has its own rules and the mods of each subreddit can be fairly strict w/ enforcing said rules, so if you don't read and follow the rules, don't be surprised to see your post suspended or canceled if you break them. It's frustrating at first, but the rules for most places aren't unreasonable... and the more you use Reddit, the more you understand what each subreddit is asking for and why they enforce the rules to begin w/. So, eventually, you won't have any issues.

But if you dig deep enough through all the "karma-whoring" (an unofficially official term used by Redditors towards users who appeal to the lowest common denominator in order to gain a lot of up-votes), you can find really in-depth guides like below (some of which even include links to guides here on the OOTPB forums, like NoOne's "A Guide for Beginners"):

A Ridiculously Long Guide to How I Evaluate Players Using Excel (Major Leaguers Edition)

OOTP User Guide

A massive collection of every tip and trick I've got. Share your own!

Two of those are outdated by 6-8 years and may contain a lot of stuff people already know or have learned more about. But the point is, don't completely write off Reddit as a legitimate source for helpful info (like I used to do) just b/c of the blind assumptions made by others who've never really tried to "get" the site.

[rocknfire7]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Arguments end when one side realizes it has no plausible responses to the facts presented by the other side and runs out of tangential issue suitable for deflection. An argument that ends naturally is less likely to revive than one where authority forced it to end.

You Don't Say!!

[bigd51]

Originally Posted by BaseballGOAT

I'm talking about a free forum and links to free hosting

Yeah, I don't see why a site like ProBoards couldn't work for this. ProBoards is 100% free for any user to create, customize, and maintain their own forum w/ no rules other than the ones YOU enforce.

After the old NFL.com forums were shut down back in 2011ish, long-time members used ProBoards to create an NFL fan forum we could migrate to that I was a member of for years. We basically did whatever we wanted in our own little space. It was actually pretty cool, hella fun, and nobody had to pay a cent. Crazy thing is, our original forum is still live to this day despite having long since been abandoned (after it merged w/ another sports forum on PB).

All you would need are a few trusted OGs from here as admins and/or mods and it would be easy to accomplish. Or you could literally create a forum for only cataloging all of the mods here, turn comments off, make the forum private, and only invite trusted OGs and others for access. Whatever you want. No full-time dedication is needed.

Discord could certainly work, as well, and isn't that hard to set up (coming from someone who doesn't even have Discord currently installed, but has been a part of some created for gaming communities). Again, just create the room, assign OG's from these forums to mod whenever they have time, and the place kinda runs itself. No full-time dedication is needed. Just the same kind of volunteers you have here.

[Bobfather]

Yes if it takes all the conspiracists off of this forum.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by Bobfather

Yes if it takes all the conspiracists off of this forum.

....and ALL posts that have absolutely NO redeeming value!

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by BaseballGOAT

PSU
The difference in what I'm talking about and what you were talking about is a bunch of money. You were wanting a website like FM fan sites that is gonna take money to host, and would be no less than a part time job for someone. I think a bunch of us questioned if there is enough OOTP modding going on to make the cost worthwhile.

I'm talking about a free forum and links to free hosting

We’ll, how much would you estimate it might take?

Edit: if the site were to be professionally designed, how much do you think it would cost? Is maintenance fairly easy?

[BaseballGOAT]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

We’ll, how much would you estimate it might take?

Edit: if the site were to be professionally designed, how much do you think it would cost? Is maintenance fairly easy?

I've honestly never looked into it PSU. Hosting itself is fairly inexpensive. I'd think once built, maintenance would be fairly straightforward

[philthepat]

I'm working on it...

[The Game]

Originally Posted by pauwoo

As for the question posed in the OP... I don't think so, I like arguing with y'all here perfectly fine.

I used to love to argue with people on here but many wanted to take personal shots. Too many people love the comfort of having a screen in between them and the person they want to insult. I do my arguing on Twitter now and try to keep it just to WST.(White Sox Twitter) I will see them in person.

[pauwoo]

Originally Posted by The Game

I used to love to argue with people on here but many wanted to take personal shots. Too many people love the comfort of having a screen in between them and the person they want to insult. I do my arguing on Twitter now and try to keep it just to WST.(White Sox Twitter) I will see them in person.

I'd seen a lot of that in the Off Topic section back in the day... like, After Hours, or whatever it was called... I haven't seen anything here in awhile that I felt was too out of bounds but I hear you. What I was really trying to say in my comment, though, was that whatever sniping, personal shots, etc happen here would continue elsewhere... and, I think my reply sort of mised the spirit of the OP's question, which seems to have more to do with our ability to openly discuss any baseball league in the world, how we feel about its inclusion in the game or lack thereof, and etc.

All that being said - I like this board fine, I'm not too bothered by the recent censoring, I deal with similar things in my work, and, while I've had run-ins with a few users here on the boards, I brushed them off like flies at a BBQ. And, you know what's crazy? I don't even know how to use the ignore list.

Who knows, maybe this new board will have a section dedicated to bashing the General Management options in the game so that one kid can come back (for the 5th time) or even a section dedicated to working Web3 into completely unrelated discussions. I like to be entertained by tomfoolery as much as the next guy!

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by pauwoo

I'd seen a lot of that in the Off Topic section back in the day... like, After Hours, or whatever it was called... I haven't seen anything here in awhile that I felt was too out of bounds but I hear you. What I was really trying to say in my comment, though, was that whatever sniping, personal shots, etc happen here would continue elsewhere... and, I think my reply sort of mised the spirit of the OP's question, which seems to have more to do with our ability to openly discuss any baseball league in the world, how we feel about its inclusion in the game or lack thereof, and etc.

All that being said - I like this board fine, I'm not too bothered by the recent censoring, I deal with similar things in my work, and, while I've had run-ins with a few users here on the boards, I brushed them off like flies at a BBQ. And, you know what's crazy? I don't even know how to use the ignore list.

Who knows, maybe this new board will have a section dedicated to bashing the General Management options in the game so that one kid can come back (for the 5th time) or even a section dedicated to working Web3 into completely unrelated discussions. I like to be entertained by tomfoolery as much as the next guy!

Tomfoolery retired last week.