Stamina not functioning properly, *or* is not defined properly in manual, *or* suspended realism

zevus · 06-27-2022, 07:01 AM

I got tired of losing to scrublord garbage in the drafts so decided to check some things out (and also having the AI use one of my starters as a reliever instead of using a position player despite the fact that I have my starters set to NEVER USE as relievers -- again, like I said in a couple of previous posts dating back several weeks -- your settings aren't working properly, ffs .. I wanted Jose Canseco to pitch, this is why I set my rotation NOT to).

Would it be possible to get a game programmer in here to define to me how stamina actually functions in game, vs. the manual definition and how the word is defined in, say, a dictionary? Don't forget to mention the modifiers.

Thanks

ps - ignore the scribbles, I decided that the issue here is self evident. the screenshots were taken on different days of a tourney, but only used if the pitcher had only thrown on the day previous, and never before.

zevus · 06-27-2022, 07:08 AM

If you don't want to look around too much, compare the bottom left pitcher w/ 19 stamina and 21 pitches at 72%, vs the one above w/ 32 stamina and 14 pitches at 70%, vs the one above that with 18 pitches and 96 stamina at 66%, vs the one above that with 18 pitches and 14 stamina at 82%, vs the one above that ....... and so on and so forth.

I could have sworn that stamina functioned properly in OOTP 22.

ed: I should mention that at first I thought it was penalizing starters for relieving, but then you hit Jorge Lopez, w/ his 14 pitches and 32 stamina @ 70%, vs Don McMahon's 20 pitches and 18 stamina @ 74%.

Then I realized ... oh, it's penalized based on "Suggested Role."

Another neat comparison --

18 pitches @ 14 stamina = 82%
20 pitches @ 18 stamina = 74%
21 pitches @ 19 stamina = 72%

naturally only comparing those with the "suggested role" of reliever (pls to remember this does not include actual relievers, just the role that the game thinks you should be using them as)

What a **** show.

zevus · 06-27-2022, 07:25 AM

oh, and finally, starters all seem to tire at the same rate (when acting as) relievers regardless of stamina (in "Perfect League") even if they aren't really starters, like Jorge Lopez. The game mandates ... err, I mean that it suggests that you use him as a starter.

and final edit, I think: I'm done w/ the multiplayer side, laugh. **** it. Previous posts get no explanation either.

Matt Arnold · 06-27-2022, 11:00 AM

A few points:

-Keep in mind that the fatigue level you see will depend on what role you have them set as based on position. That's why some players show fatigue (SP), for example. What is used in-game will be based on what role they are used as.

-Second, a few years ago we made a change so that SP would recover slower than RP. That's based on their suggested position, so that would certainly explain why a SP with a higher stamina might be at a lower fatigue level than a RP with a lower stamina, despite them throwing the same number of pitches. Although that being said, higher stamina will allow a player to throw more pitches, so in that respect, 20 pitches may tire him out less than a RP with a low stamina.

-Next, keep in mind that stamina, and pitches thrown, aren't directly linear. For example, someone with a 14 stamina may be able to throw 30 pitches in a game, but someone with a 19 stamina may only get, say, 33, to be at the same fatigue levels. As well, there are certain levels where things impact you more or less. A player throwing 12 pitches in a game will often be more than 2X rested than someone throwing 24 pitches.

So with all that in mind, while everything is on a scale, there's in some respects only a few categories of pitchers. Anyone with a stamina less than around 10 will have very few pitches available in a game, and will only be able to do short outings. Players with a mid-range stamina (10-20) are essentially "normal" RP. 20-25 would be your "high stamina" RP, and so generally speaking, can go longer in games. Above 25 is generally when they are starting to be treated as a SP, in which case while they can go longer in a game itself, they will not recover fatigue quite as quickly as a true RP, and so often will get punished more for pitching on back to back days, for example.

Brobrey · 11-17-2022, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

A few points:

-Keep in mind that the fatigue level you see will depend on what role you have them set as based on position. That's why some players show fatigue (SP), for example. What is used in-game will be based on what role they are used as.

-Second, a few years ago we made a change so that SP would recover slower than RP. That's based on their suggested position, so that would certainly explain why a SP with a higher stamina might be at a lower fatigue level than a RP with a lower stamina, despite them throwing the same number of pitches. Although that being said, higher stamina will allow a player to throw more pitches, so in that respect, 20 pitches may tire him out less than a RP with a low stamina.

-Next, keep in mind that stamina, and pitches thrown, aren't directly linear. For example, someone with a 14 stamina may be able to throw 30 pitches in a game, but someone with a 19 stamina may only get, say, 33, to be at the same fatigue levels. As well, there are certain levels where things impact you more or less. A player throwing 12 pitches in a game will often be more than 2X rested than someone throwing 24 pitches.

So with all that in mind, while everything is on a scale, there's in some respects only a few categories of pitchers. Anyone with a stamina less than around 10 will have very few pitches available in a game, and will only be able to do short outings. Players with a mid-range stamina (10-20) are essentially "normal" RP. 20-25 would be your "high stamina" RP, and so generally speaking, can go longer in games. Above 25 is generally when they are starting to be treated as a SP, in which case while they can go longer in a game itself, they will not recover fatigue quite as quickly as a true RP, and so often will get punished more for pitching on back to back days, for example.

This is extremely helpful @Matt Arnold and forgive me if this is posted elsewhere as I couldn't find the answer, but how is the stamina rating treated when moving an SP to the pen? For example, does the game assign the pitcher a new "RP stamina rating" (perhaps based on/relative to their original SP stamina rating)?

06-27-2022, 07:01 AM	#1
zevus Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2022 Location: Over yonder Posts: 148	Stamina not functioning properly, or is not defined properly in manual, or suspended realism I got tired of losing to scrublord garbage in the drafts so decided to check some things out (and also having the AI use one of my starters as a reliever instead of using a position player despite the fact that I have my starters set to NEVER USE as relievers -- again, like I said in a couple of previous posts dating back several weeks -- your settings aren't working properly, ffs .. I wanted Jose Canseco to pitch, this is why I set my rotation NOT to). Would it be possible to get a game programmer in here to define to me how stamina actually functions in game, vs. the manual definition and how the word is defined in, say, a dictionary? Don't forget to mention the modifiers. Thanks ps - ignore the scribbles, I decided that the issue here is self evident. the screenshots were taken on different days of a tourney, but only used if the pitcher had only thrown on the day previous, and never before. Attached Images Last edited by zevus; 06-27-2022 at 07:03 AM.

06-27-2022, 07:08 AM	#2
zevus Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2022 Location: Over yonder Posts: 148	If you don't want to look around too much, compare the bottom left pitcher w/ 19 stamina and 21 pitches at 72%, vs the one above w/ 32 stamina and 14 pitches at 70%, vs the one above that with 18 pitches and 96 stamina at 66%, vs the one above that with 18 pitches and 14 stamina at 82%, vs the one above that ....... and so on and so forth. I could have sworn that stamina functioned properly in OOTP 22. ed: I should mention that at first I thought it was penalizing starters for relieving, but then you hit Jorge Lopez, w/ his 14 pitches and 32 stamina @ 70%, vs Don McMahon's 20 pitches and 18 stamina @ 74%. Then I realized ... oh, it's penalized based on "Suggested Role." Another neat comparison -- 18 pitches @ 14 stamina = 82% 20 pitches @ 18 stamina = 74% 21 pitches @ 19 stamina = 72% naturally only comparing those with the "suggested role" of reliever (pls to remember this does not include actual relievers, just the role that the game thinks you should be using them as) What a **** show. Last edited by zevus; 06-27-2022 at 07:22 AM.

06-27-2022, 07:25 AM	#3
zevus Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2022 Location: Over yonder Posts: 148	oh, and finally, starters all seem to tire at the same rate (when acting as) relievers regardless of stamina (in "Perfect League") even if they aren't really starters, like Jorge Lopez. The game mandates ... err, I mean that it suggests that you use him as a starter. and final edit, I think: I'm done w/ the multiplayer side, laugh. **** it. Previous posts get no explanation either. Last edited by zevus; 06-27-2022 at 07:28 AM.

06-27-2022, 11:00 AM	#4
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,856	A few points: -Keep in mind that the fatigue level you see will depend on what role you have them set as based on position. That's why some players show fatigue (SP), for example. What is used in-game will be based on what role they are used as. -Second, a few years ago we made a change so that SP would recover slower than RP. That's based on their suggested position, so that would certainly explain why a SP with a higher stamina might be at a lower fatigue level than a RP with a lower stamina, despite them throwing the same number of pitches. Although that being said, higher stamina will allow a player to throw more pitches, so in that respect, 20 pitches may tire him out less than a RP with a low stamina. -Next, keep in mind that stamina, and pitches thrown, aren't directly linear. For example, someone with a 14 stamina may be able to throw 30 pitches in a game, but someone with a 19 stamina may only get, say, 33, to be at the same fatigue levels. As well, there are certain levels where things impact you more or less. A player throwing 12 pitches in a game will often be more than 2X rested than someone throwing 24 pitches. So with all that in mind, while everything is on a scale, there's in some respects only a few categories of pitchers. Anyone with a stamina less than around 10 will have very few pitches available in a game, and will only be able to do short outings. Players with a mid-range stamina (10-20) are essentially "normal" RP. 20-25 would be your "high stamina" RP, and so generally speaking, can go longer in games. Above 25 is generally when they are starting to be treated as a SP, in which case while they can go longer in a game itself, they will not recover fatigue quite as quickly as a true RP, and so often will get punished more for pitching on back to back days, for example.