Expansion

tward13 · 11-08-2022, 06:16 PM

So if I want to expand the current NHL so that I can GM a team from scratch, do I have to let it play through a season first or can I expand pre-2022-23?

If I have to wait, where do I go and on which date to set it up?

renojedi · 11-08-2022, 06:26 PM

I like to play the same way so I can start from scratch as well. Did something change? I started a new game and it starts on August 5 and the league can only be expanded on July 1. How do we start on July 1 so we can expand before the first season like in previous games? I would prefer not to have to play though a year first if I can avoid it.

jilech · 11-08-2022, 06:36 PM

On manager setup screen, tick "Start on July 1".

tward13 · 11-08-2022, 07:01 PM

And you can expand right then?

Flying_Canuck · 11-08-2022, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tward13

And you can expand right then?

Yes, league structure can be changed only on July 1st. Expand, delete, move teams.....etc

Nickphillies · 11-08-2022, 07:43 PM

Make sure you set up a backup save just in case you mess up when setting the expansion rules

tward13 · 11-09-2022, 12:00 PM

Which I didn't do. And then had to redo when I didn't like the setup.

But one thing I noticed. Both time Igor Shesterkin was available to draft. Ridiculous.
26 years old. The game ranks him as #2 goalie, signed for 3 more years at a reasonable 5.5M (or close to that). In no world would the Rangers, or should AI, make him available.

It happened both times. Something needs to be tweaked in expansion logic.

kibasan · 11-09-2022, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tward13

Which I didn't do. And then had to redo when I didn't like the setup.

But one thing I noticed. Both time Igor Shesterkin was available to draft. Ridiculous.
26 years old. The game ranks him as #2 goalie, signed for 3 more years at a reasonable 5.5M (or close to that). In no world would the Rangers, or should AI, make him available.

It happened both times. Something needs to be tweaked in expansion logic.

tward I encountered this too and had the exact same reaction. So I did a little digging and found the source. If you check the box for teams having to protect players with NMC -- when scheduling the Expansion Draft and setting up the rules -- then the Rangers have no choice but to protect Halak, their backup, who has a one year contract with an NMC (unless you allow teams to protect two goalies).

Of course IRL, if there was an Expansion Draft scheduled for 2022, there is no way in hell the Rangers would ever give their backup goalie an NMC because that would mean losing Shesterkin. But there is no way for the game to take that into account (since we can schedule an Expansion Draft for any year). So the only workaround is to alter Halak's contract and simply remove the NMC...then change it back to the original after the Expansion Draft.

tward13 · 11-09-2022, 05:09 PM

Or have the Rangers sign a giveaway goalie before the expansion draft. If it means moving the draft to July 7th or something then do it to allow AI teams to react to the upcoming expansion.

JeffR · 11-09-2022, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tward13

Or have the Rangers sign a giveaway goalie before the expansion draft. If it means moving the draft to July 7th or something then do it to allow AI teams to react to the upcoming expansion.

That would do nothing, they still have to protect Halak if that option is on. Signing another goalie would just mean they'd have to expose him as well as Shesterkin.

tward13 · 11-09-2022, 09:50 PM

So, we can't do a realistic expansion in game.

kibasan · 11-09-2022, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tward13

So, we can't do a realistic expansion in game.

I think the simplest solution is to remove Halak's NMC before you schedule the Expansion Draft, which will free the Rangers to protect Shesterkin, then change Halak's contract back to the original after the draft is complete.

IRL the Rangers gave Halak the NMC so they could get him on the cheap for one year but they would've never done that if there was an Expansion Draft scheduled for 2022. So the game is faithful to the actual IRL contract, which creates this scenario.

I've been critical in the past of FHM's realism issues, but this one isn't on them. Expansion Draft rules require NMCs to be protected and teams can only protect one goalie, so the player can either change the rules in 2022 (Shesterkin is protected in 2023) by removing NMC protection altogether, tweak the one contract that's causing the issue, or sim ahead to 2023 and take Spencer Knight

tward13 · 11-10-2022, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kibasan

I think the simplest solution is to remove Halak's NMC before you schedule the Expansion Draft, which will free the Rangers to protect Shesterkin, then change Halak's contract back to the original after the draft is complete.

IRL the Rangers gave Halak the NMC so they could get him on the cheap for one year but they would've never done that if there was an Expansion Draft scheduled for 2022. So the game is faithful to the actual IRL contract, which creates this scenario.

I've been critical in the past of FHM's realism issues, but this one isn't on them. Expansion Draft rules require NMCs to be protected and teams can only protect one goalie, so the player can either change the rules in 2022 (Shesterkin is protected in 2023) by removing NMC protection altogether, tweak the one contract that's causing the issue, or sim ahead to 2023 and take Spencer Knight

That's the one I'm aware of. What about other teams? Let me ask another question. Is there a way in game to set up expansion for the next season so that teams have time to make good decisions? If not, then expansion is still and issue and requires tinkering by me to make it work right.

kibasan · 11-10-2022, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tward13

That's the one I'm aware of. What about other teams? Let me ask another question. Is there a way in game to set up expansion for the next season so that teams have time to make good decisions? If not, then expansion is still and issue and requires tinkering by me to make it work right.

Others teams still have issues, unfortunately, because the IRL contracts are all handed out with the foreknowledge that no Expansion Draft is forthcoming. In 2023 this means Spencer Knight (bc of Bobrovsky) and Jeremy Swayman (bc of Ullmark) are available. I've noticed too that there are a bunch of players who are still on their ELCs who are available as well (even with the three-year experience requirement "checked"), but I just make a point of not picking them.

It would be awesome to have the option to set up an Expansion Draft a year or two before it occurs, so the AI would have the time to prepare for it. But as far as I know, we can only schedule it on July 1st of that calendar year. I wonder if this is something that could be added in a future update?

AbeFroman · 11-10-2022, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kibasan

I've noticed too that there are a bunch of players who are still on their ELCs who are available as well (even with the three-year experience requirement "checked"), but I just make a point of not picking them.

This has been an "issue" for the last several seasons. Since expansion starts on July 1, the first day of the new season, it is calculating guys who have already burned 2 years on their ELC's as well as the current season. It's more or less an issue in the interpretation than anything else.

If you change the experience requirement to two-years, you won't have an issue and every though you're picking two instead of three, it will be far more accurate.

seth1710 · 11-10-2022, 02:50 PM

Something I'm finding with expansion - I fast-forwarded to 2023 and added two teams, one of which I took over - is it's too easy to draft good prospects. I went with the defaults for the expansion draft, but may re-start and make it tougher. Every team only loses two or three players? Maybe they get to protect players with three years experience?

Has anybody tinkered with it in a way that was satisfying?

kibasan · 11-10-2022, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbeFroman

This has been an "issue" for the last several seasons. Since expansion starts on July 1, the first day of the new season, it is calculating guys who have already burned 2 years on their ELC's as well as the current season. It's more or less an issue in the interpretation than anything else.

If you change the experience requirement to two-years, you won't have an issue and every though you're picking two instead of three, it will be far more accurate.

Interesting. I knew there had to be a viable reason but I couldn't put my finger on it. I went back and checked all the "illegals" and sure enough they all have one year left on their ELC.

RMc · 11-10-2022, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Yes, league structure can be changed only on July 1st. Expand, delete, move teams.....etc

I started a league on July 1, 1926, and found I couldn't change anything, leaguewide or for any of the teams. Then I jumped to July 1, 1927, and...same problem. Am I doing something wrong? I've been playing FHM for four years now, and I've never had this problem before...

EDIT: And, yes, Enable Historical Editing is on.

JeffR · 11-10-2022, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMc

I started a league on July 1, 1926, and found I couldn't change anything, leaguewide or for any of the teams. Then I jumped to July 1, 1927, and...same problem. Am I doing something wrong? I've been playing FHM for four years now, and I've never had this problem before...

EDIT: And, yes, Enable Historical Editing is on.

Works fine when I try a 1926 start with historical editing on. Double-check your Manager-Options screen, Commissioner Mode and Historical League Editing are both checked?

RMc · 11-11-2022, 02:07 AM

...aaaand now it works. Thanks, anyway!

11-08-2022, 06:16 PM	#1
tward13 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,964	Expansion So if I want to expand the current NHL so that I can GM a team from scratch, do I have to let it play through a season first or can I expand pre-2022-23? If I have to wait, where do I go and on which date to set it up?

11-08-2022, 07:43 PM	#6
Nickphillies All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 630	Make sure you set up a backup save just in case you mess up when setting the expansion rules __________________ FHM Beta Tester

11-11-2022, 02:07 AM	#20
RMc All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,683	...aaaand now it works. Thanks, anyway! __________________ "We're all behind our baseball team..."

11-08-2022, 06:26 PM	#2
renojedi Major Leagues Join Date: May 2003 Location: Richmond, Virginia area Posts: 475	I like to play the same way so I can start from scratch as well. Did something change? I started a new game and it starts on August 5 and the league can only be expanded on July 1. How do we start on July 1 so we can expand before the first season like in previous games? I would prefer not to have to play though a year first if I can avoid it. Last edited by renojedi; 11-08-2022 at 06:27 PM.

11-08-2022, 06:36 PM	#3
jilech Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Denmark Posts: 64	On manager setup screen, tick "Start on July 1".

11-08-2022, 07:01 PM	#4
tward13 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,964	And you can expand right then?

11-09-2022, 12:00 PM	#7
tward13 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,964	Which I didn't do. And then had to redo when I didn't like the setup. But one thing I noticed. Both time Igor Shesterkin was available to draft. Ridiculous. 26 years old. The game ranks him as #2 goalie, signed for 3 more years at a reasonable 5.5M (or close to that). In no world would the Rangers, or should AI, make him available. It happened both times. Something needs to be tweaked in expansion logic.

11-09-2022, 05:09 PM	#9
tward13 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,964	Or have the Rangers sign a giveaway goalie before the expansion draft. If it means moving the draft to July 7th or something then do it to allow AI teams to react to the upcoming expansion.

11-09-2022, 09:50 PM	#11
tward13 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,964	So, we can't do a realistic expansion in game.

11-10-2022, 02:50 PM	#16
seth1710 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 34	Something I'm finding with expansion - I fast-forwarded to 2023 and added two teams, one of which I took over - is it's too easy to draft good prospects. I went with the defaults for the expansion draft, but may re-start and make it tougher. Every team only loses two or three players? Maybe they get to protect players with three years experience? Has anybody tinkered with it in a way that was satisfying?