Rating pitchers

[Jeff1787]

I haven't heard much hear on the forum lately, about pitcher's ratings. The below three pitchers have very good ratings in my opinion. One is higher in stuff, one in movement, and one in control. Can I get some opinions on which of the ratings are most important and how would you rank the three?

[HondoLane]

Best pitcher here will be the middle option. Movement is the most important rating, just above control - and he has the same point total overall as the third option. He's also a neutral, compared to the flyball for the other two - with his movement, he won't be giving up a lot of homeruns.

Second best pitcher would be the last option. While he has the same point total as the middle pitcher, I like the more even spread - if he wasn't a flyball pitcher with the 70 movement (reverse his movement and stuff ratings and have him be neutral for example), I'd rate him first.

In third place is the first option - high stuff with middling movement and low control just doesn't play well for starters. Even though his overall point total is higher, it's all in Stuff, and for whatever reason, it doesn't translate to comparative performance (vs. the other two ratings)

[Jeff1787]

Originally Posted by HondoLane

Best pitcher here will be the middle option. Movement is the most important rating, just above control - and he has the same point total overall as the third option. He's also a neutral, compared to the flyball for the other two - with his movement, he won't be giving up a lot of homeruns.

Second best pitcher would be the last option. While he has the same point total as the middle pitcher, I like the more even spread - if he wasn't a flyball pitcher with the 70 movement (reverse his movement and stuff ratings and have him be neutral for example), I'd rate him first.

In third place is the first option - high stuff with middling movement and low control just doesn't play well for starters. Even though his overall point total is higher, it's all in Stuff, and for whatever reason, it doesn't translate to comparative performance (vs. the other two ratings)

Thanks for the reply. Many players say stuff is more important this year compared to previous versions. I don't know. For me it's hard to put together a good pitching staff. I have a bunch of good pitchers, just trying to find the right combination!!

I've been stuck in silver for a long time. I'm doing packs only and some missions. Maybe I should change up and start buying some cards.

[RkRider]

If what your'e saying is true, then there's no point to having ratings for individual pitches. While movement and control should contribute to the quality of the individual pitches, it seems more related to walks and strikeouts.

[Jeff1787]

Originally Posted by RkRider

If what your'e saying is true, then there's no point to having ratings for individual pitches. While movement and control should contribute to the quality of the individual pitches, it seems more related to walks and strikeouts.

I don't know how the individual pitch ratings come into play, do you?

[RkRider]

Generally I find high stuff rating and the number of high rated pitches are the first things I look at. These ratings seem to coincide. Then of course you have to have some control to actually locate them. Movement seems to really help when a guy has a good fastball. I would most likely gravitate towards the first player in your example, especially if he had a little higher movement rating to help out his heater. The second example has great movement and control but what good is that if all his pitches are substandard. He cant seem to apply those abilities to any actual pitches. The third one is better, but none of his actual pitches besides the changeup amount to much. I may be overthinking it, but it seems to be working at my level. Have fun !

[HondoLane]

Originally Posted by RkRider

Generally I find high stuff rating and the number of high rated pitches are the first things I look at. These ratings seem to coincide. Then of course you have to have some control to actually locate them. Movement seems to really help when a guy has a good fastball. I would most likely gravitate towards the first player in your example, especially if he had a little higher movement rating to help out his heater. The second example has great movement and control but what good is that if all his pitches are substandard. He cant seem to apply those abilities to any actual pitches. The third one is better, but none of his actual pitches besides the changeup amount to much. I may be overthinking it, but it seems to be working at my level. Have fun !

If you look at the top tourney teams for any level really, this doesn't hold up.

Simple test: Who pitched better for you - Mark Prior or Nolan Ryan? Mark Prior has pitched much better for me (he's long been out of the main lineup, but when he was + tourneys). And Prior has 13 pitching points less than Nolan Ryan. But Ryan's is all in the high stuff. Prior also pitched much better for me than Sid Fernandez, another card with more overall pitching points.

[professor ape]

Pitchers with high stuff tend to do better in lower levels where they can get a ton of strikeouts. As you move up into the higher levels most batters have strong AvK which means that MOV and CON have more chances to come into play. Top tier hitters will eat up pitchers with lower ratings in those two categories.

[RkRider]

Prior also has good stuff and pitches along with decent control and movement, so the total package. I have them both, but haven't used Prior yet due to my doing a rpg aspect of the game

[RkRider]

Even with sub standard pitches ?

[HondoLane]

Originally Posted by professor ape

Pitchers with high stuff tend to do better in lower levels where they can get a ton of strikeouts. As you move up into the higher levels most batters have strong AvK which means that MOV and CON have more chances to come into play. Top tier hitters will eat up pitchers with lower ratings in those two categories.

This exactly. Nobody uses high stuff pitchers (unless they have high everything) in the higher levels. Movement is number one because home runs hurt the worst. Otherwise, it's really a matter of finding the pitcher with the highest combined points total (adding the three ratings together), and then factoring in flyball/groundball, number of pitches, and even stamina sometimes.

[Tinkerman]

I've read a number of times that individual pitch ratings are window dressing by themselves, and are only important in terms of how they contribute to the overall Stuff rating.

[HondoLane]

Originally Posted by RkRider

Even with sub standard pitches ?

The pitch ratings are just a breakdown of the stuff rating. So the pitch ratings directly effect strikeouts. They do not effect home runs and the control of the pitch.

Even though a guy may have a 50 fastball, that doesn't mean he's giving up a lot of doubles and home runs - that part is determined by his movement rating. The 50 fastball rating basically means there will be a lot of balls in play.

So I guess the answer is, yes, a pitcher with sub-standard pitch ratings could still be a lot better than a guy with incredible pitch ratings, if his movement and control were sufficiently high.

EDIT: The Knuckleball is the exception. The movement rating of the pitcher has no effect on the knuckleball - I'm not sure about the control - but the movement is baked into the knuckleball pitch rating from my understanding; meaning a 98 pitch rating for a knuckleball also means a 98 movement rating for that pitch, even if the card has a much lower movement rating (which effects the other pitches). Which also explains why knuckleball pitchers play above their ratings.

[LeeD]

Originally Posted by Tinkerman

I've read a number of times that individual pitch ratings are window dressing by themselves, and are only important in terms of how they contribute to the overall Stuff rating.

Yes and no. You still want a starting pitcher with more than a 100 fastball and changeup. For starters, a variety of quality pitches is essential, especially if that variety includes a good slider or screwball. A lot of the Diamond starters who came out early were fastball-curveball guys with 3 pitches, and they aren't very effective as starters (although some of them work well in relief).

[dhennes1]

Originally Posted by professor ape

Pitchers with high stuff tend to do better in lower levels where they can get a ton of strikeouts. As you move up into the higher levels most batters have strong AvK which means that MOV and CON have more chances to come into play. Top tier hitters will eat up pitchers with lower ratings in those two categories.

Just out of curiosity, based on your statement, how would you adjust this? It's a Gold level if it matters. First year in PT so trying to learn the ropes. Nolan was originally a SP, but moved him to CL after acquiring Preacher and Vida.

[professor ape]

Originally Posted by dhennes1

Just out of curiosity, based on your statement, how would you adjust this? It's a Gold level if it matters. First year in PT so trying to learn the ropes. Nolan was originally a SP, but moved him to CL after acquiring Preacher and Vida.

As an initial quick hit thought, your pitchers with the weaker Control numbers will be a big problem as you move up and batters have strong Eye ratings. The walks will turn solo home runs into three run dingers.

[dhennes1]

Originally Posted by professor ape

As an initial quick hit thought, your pitchers with the weaker Control numbers will be a big problem as you move up and batters have strong Eye ratings. The walks will turn solo home runs into three run dingers.

Makes sense. Appreciate the reply.