If you're SUPRISED realbeisbol folded reply here - Page 20

mfitterer1 · 11-17-2003, 02:20 AM

I believe their was a test study done on this a ways back, when I started the first league. Dont know exactly where though, I will try and find it to prove you guys I am right.

Hammer755 · 11-17-2003, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1
And second of all it wouldnt be cheatign because I am right, and why the damn guy isnt even on my team, lol. You guys some times man.

Anytime a commish edits a player (regardless of what team the player is on), especially in the middle of the season, without notifying the entire league and explaining exactly why the editting is called for, he is blatantly cheating.

Hammer755 · 11-17-2003, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1
...Lo Duca was not bumped either, he just was read differently.

Quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1
Scouts effect how a player develops or stunts, lo duca stunted and was put back to his original range. Look at player development and you will see that.

Dola

The fact that you continue to change your story doesn't help your defense. Initially you said that LoDuca ratings weren't changed, he was simply 'read differently' by the scouts. Only a matter of posts later, you then concede that LoDuca's defensive rating was changed.

mfitterer1 · 11-17-2003, 02:32 AM

I mistakenly said he was read differently, I was meaning to say Ruan was read differently. God I mixed up my words. Big deal, you guys are makign a big deal out of it, nobody else in the league is putting up this kind of shi*

MTXperience · 11-17-2003, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1
I mistakenly said he was read differently, I was meaning to say Ruan was read differently. God I mixed up my words. Big deal, you guys are makign a big deal out of it, nobody else in the league is putting up this kind of shi*

Well... noone but the LA GM who just quit.

Hammer755 · 11-17-2003, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1
I mistakenly said he was read differently, I was meaning to say Ruan was read differently. God I mixed up my words. Big deal, you guys are makign a big deal out of it, nobody else in the league is putting up this kind of shi*

Fit Dog,

I'm through attempting to help you. You have said repeatedly that you are not allowed to get your side of the story out, yet when people such as myself ask you questions that you can answer to help explain yourself, you act indignant. From my perspective, it looks like you're a cheater, yet you continue to place blame on those that are asking you for an explanation.

If you have never cheated, then you are simply the most incompetent commish I've ever seen. I'm not sure which is more damaging to you, that you may be a cheater or that you simply cannot handle the responsibilities of overseeing a league. Either way, I am absolutely dumbfounded that you continue to attract members to join your league.

I'm tired of trying to sort through this train wreck of a topic, so you'll get your wish and not receive any more questions from me on the matter. Just let it be known that I think you have repeatedly cheated.

mfitterer1 · 11-17-2003, 02:52 AM

Like I have said before I dont care what you guys think, so that doesnt mean anything to me. Second of all the reason why there are more problems with my league is because I try to keep it as close to a real life system as possible,(ratings and such), there are things that are done differently than in other leagues, and I myself will admit I am not perfect.

Skipaway · 11-17-2003, 03:30 AM

Perhaps I am the only one thinking this way:

If MFitterer1 is really trying to make his leagues "realistic", it might just be the reason for all the troubles.

From his past posts, I felt that he didn't really understand well how either real life MLB or the OOTP game works. Yet he's offering tips like he's a master. And he's constantly asking for active players to help his leagues. I'd say ambition and ignorance can be a deadly combo.

An experienced commissioner, or a more humble commissioner could have prevented all this from happening. All the attemps to modify the game rules for realism should have been well thought and discussed. Also well announced. Stuff like Beckett and not knowing the real life arbitration rules should NEVER have happened. Who else would modify a contract that way without understanding the correct rules, and discussing it thoroughly first? And for the manager mode mistake, shouldn't it have been reported right after he himself found it? A "sorry league, I did something stupid, and didn't know if any damage done, but I've tried my best to save the league" announcement would have been nice.

For MFitterer1, I don't think he understands what's wrong with his leagues even now. He doesn't realize his incompetence, and so do we. We all thought he's just a regular cheater.

Do I make any sense?

MTXperience · 11-17-2003, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipaway
He doesn't realize his incompetence, and so do we.

Do I make any sense?

Everything up to that part... then you kind of lost me...

But yes... I see what you mean.

Skipaway · 11-17-2003, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MTXperience
Everything up to that part... then you kind of lost me...

But yes... I see what you mean.

I meant it's just stupidity, stupid.

I believe we all overestimated Mfitterer1 by labeling him a cheater.

mfitterer1 · 11-17-2003, 04:19 AM

I am not a cheater and have no problem running my league, why dont you ask some of the people in it before you make up these notions on your own.

You have never once been in any of my commished leagues and I dont believe you have been in any leagues with me, so please save judgement on me for someone that actually has some background on me.

The only reason that you say I dont know how to run a league is because every minute detail that happens that seems odd is seen, because people keep such close watch on my team and the league. I know 10-15 commishes and they all have problems of this significance, but they dont get any **** from their owners, the **** I get is not from my owners, no, no, its from you guys. You arent even in my league, yet you form a false representation about what me and my leagues are about. That is why i get so upset at everyone in here.

Nobody understand how much I do to get this league to the best it can be, and you guys make that harder because you dont let people form their own opinions. I explained my case to you, so now you know "the story"; so please now leave me alone and let the owners decide for themselves what they think of me.

So unless you are posting something that needs to be posted about the league or are asking to join, I dont wanna hear anything more out of anyones mouths negative about the league. If the opportunity provides itself (which it wont) for negative criticism to be needed, then I will have no problem with you guys putting your 2 cents in, but for now please leave it as is and let the league and its owners get on with how a league runs, not with all this extra publicity.

I hope this is the last I have to post on the topic.

Thanks 2 all that have tried to support me, hopefully none will be needed for a very long time.

Skipaway · 11-17-2003, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1
The only reason that you say I dont know how to run a league is because every minute detail that happens that seems odd is seen, because people keep such close watch on my team and the league. I know 10-15 commishes and they all have problems of this significance, but they dont get any **** from their owners, the **** I get is not from my owners, no, no, its from you guys. You arent even in my league, yet you form a false representation about what me and my leagues are about. That is why i get so upset at everyone in here.

I totally agree with you lots of the fuss were generated by your crazed fans on this board. And it is true something similar might be happening in a dozen more leagues.

However, in most other cases, the commissioner would be willing to talk about whatever mistake they might have made. Your problem is the " who are you to tell me I am wrong" attitude. Without reasonable explanations and evidences, people could only assume the worst. And if you don't want people to be judgmental, perhaps you should never come to boards like this. It is OK to make mistakes, but it is not OK if you don't face them.

Your attitude would only be tolerated if you are really a OOTP guru with good track record, and never make mistakes.

I do see improvements on your recent posts asking questions in the main forum though. Perhaps there are still hope.

Remember the WHIP vs. ERA discussion? http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...highlight=whip
You first came in with the intention to help others, but was completely clueless. Then, after some others offered their opinions, which made much more sense, you just came back with another clueless reply. What's wrong with admitting the mistakes? Or are you really not smart enough to understand others?

I'd guess most of your fiascos would fall into the same category. You made some mistake, and either didn't realize it's a mistake, or was too proud to admit it. Therefore you have to use this stupid attitude and a bunch of crazy stories to shield it.

woburn · 11-17-2003, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1

I know 10-15 commishes and they all have problems of this significance, but they dont get any **** from their owners

Really?

None of the leagues I've been in, nor the league I run, have had "problems of this significance"....

Karen Lutz · 11-17-2003, 07:06 AM

you know 10-15 other cheaters? I guess they do hang out together... they must if you say they do, because you would never lie!

IatricSB · 11-17-2003, 07:55 AM

I know you're to proud to take any advice, but here is a suggestion:

Editing Players - Never edit a player once he is on somebody's team. In my leagues (BoS, GDBA, and MLBR) an owner is allowed to point out a discrepancy on a player prior to the draft starting and the edit will be made. But once the draft starts, its no longer allowed since people have made picks and it would be unfair to them to have a unpicked player edited after they already made their picks. It would be extremely unfair to edit the player after he is on a team. Once the player is there, leave him alone and let the owner live with him as is. An example happened in one of the leagues where an owner pointed out that Gil Hodges should have maybe had a rating at catcher. If that had been caught before the draft, I would have edited him. But since the player had already been drafted, it wouldn't have been fair to retroactively change him.

Problems simming league - Get opinions before doing anything. One of my leagues crashed while simming the World Series online with the two owners participating. I let them both know about the crash, got their opinions as to the best way to handle the problem, got them to agree and then proceeded. If you had a problem with Manager mode, you take a time out and even delay the sim if needed. Let the league know what happened. Get them to buy in on how to fix the problem, then take your time to fix it. Don't do a haphazard quick fix and hope nobody notices.

Changes in actions taken - If you get owner buy-in, then changing directions can go a lot smoother. In MLB Replay, we had an initial dispersal draft that was done by the CPU (to hopefully more evenly distribute the players rather than using initial rosters). When I ran the draft, I did a straight draft. After the file was posted and before any games were simmed, several owners complained that the draft should have been serpentine instead of straight. We had a league wide discussion, followed by a vote at which time it was voted by the owners to re-run the draft as a serpentine draft. It was done and since it was the owners majority that decided the action, nobody could have a problem with the actions taken.

Rule changes - This is one I live by but don't see in all leagues. I never change the rules in the middle of a season. Any rule changes should be announced well in advance of implementation so the owners know what is coming. Then we wait until the off-season to implement the rule. Its not fair to an owner to implement a rule with no warning since he may be basing his strategy on the existing rule. I also like to keep rule changes to a minimum and for me personally, I like to have a majority vote by the owners approving the change in the rules.

At some point due to neglect (forgetting to make a lineup change for an owner, forgetting to process a trade) or a game crash, or something else, a commish may have to repair the damage done. But if he is diligent with his backups, honest and open with the league about the problem, any long term damage or disension can be avoided.

I don't know of any commishes that have this many problems or even anywhere near this many problems. I know that in the last twelve years that I've simmed GDBA, there have been no issues. The one issue we had was a bug in the patch that caused drafted players and signed free agents to be re-released and some of the free agents went to a 2nd team after being released. All owners were notified of the problem, several solutions were presented (leaving as is, putting the player back on the first team that signed them, or re-starting free agency), the owners voted and the majority (everybody) said that the original team should get the player. The changes were made and everyone was happy. As for Boys of Summer, in the 18 season its been running, I honestly can't remember any major issues. Boys of Summer was the one that had an OOTP crash in the middle of a series, but it was discussed, decided, and fixed in an efficient manner so was barely a blip on the radar. We've had two owners questioned about possible tanking, but nobody has ever had an action taken against them. So it is possible to run a league for several seasons without any problems.

Just my two cents, but these are some of the ways I use to run my leagues.

John C · 11-17-2003, 08:04 AM

Stacy,

I thought the rules you put down were the creed EVERY commish lived by. Or, at the very least, should live by.

Well stated.

Hammer755 · 11-17-2003, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1
The only reason that you say I dont know how to run a league is because every minute detail that happens that seems odd is seen, because people keep such close watch on my team and the league. I know 10-15 commishes and they all have problems of this significance, but they dont get any **** from their owners,

I have been in about 10 leagues all told in my OOTP career, and have never witnessed a single problem of the magnitude of the ones that you repeatedly encounter.

UKSubs · 11-17-2003, 11:17 AM

Iatric was for the most part completely right about how a commissioner should act.

The only thing I would like to add is that sometimes running a league you are forced to make a rule change in the middle of a season. Not changing a rule you've put down in your league rules/charter/constitution, but when you encounter a situation where there is no rule on the subject. Then, I believe a commissioner has a duty to come to a decision for the interim and then add the decision to the rules in the offseason.

I also want to say that oddly this thread has become the perfect thread to discuss ideal commissioner conduct or the imaginary gold standard we commissioners should all strive to live up to.

sporr · 11-17-2003, 11:30 AM

It's too bad that the person who this thread is about will be the one not to take the advice in it.

CommishJoe · 11-17-2003, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sporr
It's too bad that the person who this thread is about will be the one not to take the advice in it.

Too bad most have ignored this thread as useless drivel too. Maybe some of the better stuff should be copied/pasted into a new thread .. one with a better fitting subject, and less crap to wade through

11-17-2003, 03:30 AM	#388
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	Perhaps I am the only one thinking this way: If MFitterer1 is really trying to make his leagues "realistic", it might just be the reason for all the troubles. From his past posts, I felt that he didn't really understand well how either real life MLB or the OOTP game works. Yet he's offering tips like he's a master. And he's constantly asking for active players to help his leagues. I'd say ambition and ignorance can be a deadly combo. An experienced commissioner, or a more humble commissioner could have prevented all this from happening. All the attemps to modify the game rules for realism should have been well thought and discussed. Also well announced. Stuff like Beckett and not knowing the real life arbitration rules should NEVER have happened. Who else would modify a contract that way without understanding the correct rules, and discussing it thoroughly first? And for the manager mode mistake, shouldn't it have been reported right after he himself found it? A "sorry league, I did something stupid, and didn't know if any damage done, but I've tried my best to save the league" announcement would have been nice. For MFitterer1, I don't think he understands what's wrong with his leagues even now. He doesn't realize his incompetence, and so do we. We all thought he's just a regular cheater. Do I make any sense? __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest. Last edited by Skipaway; 11-17-2003 at 03:53 AM.

11-17-2003, 07:55 AM	#395
IatricSB Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California Posts: 3,493	I know you're to proud to take any advice, but here is a suggestion: Editing Players - Never edit a player once he is on somebody's team. In my leagues (BoS, GDBA, and MLBR) an owner is allowed to point out a discrepancy on a player prior to the draft starting and the edit will be made. But once the draft starts, its no longer allowed since people have made picks and it would be unfair to them to have a unpicked player edited after they already made their picks. It would be extremely unfair to edit the player after he is on a team. Once the player is there, leave him alone and let the owner live with him as is. An example happened in one of the leagues where an owner pointed out that Gil Hodges should have maybe had a rating at catcher. If that had been caught before the draft, I would have edited him. But since the player had already been drafted, it wouldn't have been fair to retroactively change him. Problems simming league - Get opinions before doing anything. One of my leagues crashed while simming the World Series online with the two owners participating. I let them both know about the crash, got their opinions as to the best way to handle the problem, got them to agree and then proceeded. If you had a problem with Manager mode, you take a time out and even delay the sim if needed. Let the league know what happened. Get them to buy in on how to fix the problem, then take your time to fix it. Don't do a haphazard quick fix and hope nobody notices. Changes in actions taken - If you get owner buy-in, then changing directions can go a lot smoother. In MLB Replay, we had an initial dispersal draft that was done by the CPU (to hopefully more evenly distribute the players rather than using initial rosters). When I ran the draft, I did a straight draft. After the file was posted and before any games were simmed, several owners complained that the draft should have been serpentine instead of straight. We had a league wide discussion, followed by a vote at which time it was voted by the owners to re-run the draft as a serpentine draft. It was done and since it was the owners majority that decided the action, nobody could have a problem with the actions taken. Rule changes - This is one I live by but don't see in all leagues. I never change the rules in the middle of a season. Any rule changes should be announced well in advance of implementation so the owners know what is coming. Then we wait until the off-season to implement the rule. Its not fair to an owner to implement a rule with no warning since he may be basing his strategy on the existing rule. I also like to keep rule changes to a minimum and for me personally, I like to have a majority vote by the owners approving the change in the rules. At some point due to neglect (forgetting to make a lineup change for an owner, forgetting to process a trade) or a game crash, or something else, a commish may have to repair the damage done. But if he is diligent with his backups, honest and open with the league about the problem, any long term damage or disension can be avoided. I don't know of any commishes that have this many problems or even anywhere near this many problems. I know that in the last twelve years that I've simmed GDBA, there have been no issues. The one issue we had was a bug in the patch that caused drafted players and signed free agents to be re-released and some of the free agents went to a 2nd team after being released. All owners were notified of the problem, several solutions were presented (leaving as is, putting the player back on the first team that signed them, or re-starting free agency), the owners voted and the majority (everybody) said that the original team should get the player. The changes were made and everyone was happy. As for Boys of Summer, in the 18 season its been running, I honestly can't remember any major issues. Boys of Summer was the one that had an OOTP crash in the middle of a series, but it was discussed, decided, and fixed in an efficient manner so was barely a blip on the radar. We've had two owners questioned about possible tanking, but nobody has ever had an action taken against them. So it is possible to run a league for several seasons without any problems. Just my two cents, but these are some of the ways I use to run my leagues. __________________ Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow! What a Ride!" Chicago(N) - Boys of Summer Oakland - 20th Century League Bakersfield - Wild Things Brooklyn - QBA Dodge City - NBSL California - ABC Dodger's Senioriest fan on the OOTP Boards

11-17-2003, 08:04 AM	#396
John C Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Albion, RI Posts: 2,286 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	Stacy, I thought the rules you put down were the creed EVERY commish lived by. Or, at the very least, should live by. Well stated. __________________ Facebook \| My Videos

11-17-2003, 11:17 AM	#398
UKSubs Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 272	Iatric was for the most part completely right about how a commissioner should act. The only thing I would like to add is that sometimes running a league you are forced to make a rule change in the middle of a season. Not changing a rule you've put down in your league rules/charter/constitution, but when you encounter a situation where there is no rule on the subject. Then, I believe a commissioner has a duty to come to a decision for the interim and then add the decision to the rules in the offseason. I also want to say that oddly this thread has become the perfect thread to discuss ideal commissioner conduct or the imaginary gold standard we commissioners should all strive to live up to. __________________ Counter Culture Baseball Commissioner/Houston Astros RANZBA Adelaide Crows

11-17-2003, 02:20 AM	#381
mfitterer1 Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 466	I believe their was a test study done on this a ways back, when I started the first league. Dont know exactly where though, I will try and find it to prove you guys I am right.

11-17-2003, 02:32 AM	#384
mfitterer1 Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 466	I mistakenly said he was read differently, I was meaning to say Ruan was read differently. God I mixed up my words. Big deal, you guys are makign a big deal out of it, nobody else in the league is putting up this kind of shi*

11-17-2003, 02:52 AM	#387
mfitterer1 Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 466	Like I have said before I dont care what you guys think, so that doesnt mean anything to me. Second of all the reason why there are more problems with my league is because I try to keep it as close to a real life system as possible,(ratings and such), there are things that are done differently than in other leagues, and I myself will admit I am not perfect.

11-17-2003, 04:19 AM	#391
mfitterer1 Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 466	I am not a cheater and have no problem running my league, why dont you ask some of the people in it before you make up these notions on your own. You have never once been in any of my commished leagues and I dont believe you have been in any leagues with me, so please save judgement on me for someone that actually has some background on me. The only reason that you say I dont know how to run a league is because every minute detail that happens that seems odd is seen, because people keep such close watch on my team and the league. I know 10-15 commishes and they all have problems of this significance, but they dont get any ** from their owners, the ** I get is not from my owners, no, no, its from you guys. You arent even in my league, yet you form a false representation about what me and my leagues are about. That is why i get so upset at everyone in here. Nobody understand how much I do to get this league to the best it can be, and you guys make that harder because you dont let people form their own opinions. I explained my case to you, so now you know "the story"; so please now leave me alone and let the owners decide for themselves what they think of me. So unless you are posting something that needs to be posted about the league or are asking to join, I dont wanna hear anything more out of anyones mouths negative about the league. If the opportunity provides itself (which it wont) for negative criticism to be needed, then I will have no problem with you guys putting your 2 cents in, but for now please leave it as is and let the league and its owners get on with how a league runs, not with all this extra publicity. I hope this is the last I have to post on the topic. Thanks 2 all that have tried to support me, hopefully none will be needed for a very long time.

11-17-2003, 07:06 AM	#394
Karen Lutz Ball Breaker Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada OOTPChampionships: 5 Posts: 898	you know 10-15 other cheaters? I guess they do hang out together... they must if you say they do, because you would never lie!

11-17-2003, 11:30 AM	#399
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	It's too bad that the person who this thread is about will be the one not to take the advice in it.