New Blood (Promotion and Relegation)

[LeeD]

I'd like to suggest that we go back to the PT22 format for promotion and relegation. It gets flat out boring to see teams that consistently lose 85-95 games parked at their current level (including one of mine). They're not competitive but aren't bad enough to drop to the next lower level thanks to the much more limited use of relegation. Why not go back to relegating 8-12 teams instead of only four, which puts those teams at a level where they might compete for something other than third place? This would also bring in more teams from the lower levels, adding some new blood.

As OOTP occasionally reminds us: There's nothing more boring than mediocrity.

[Torgonius]

You'd need to get back to the PT22 number of active teams to do that.

It's all math.

[Tinkerman]

Too many .500 teams were relegated last year, when they'd clearly proven to be good enough for that level, only to go on and destroy the level below.

[LeeD]

Originally Posted by Torgonius

You'd need to get back to the PT22 number of active teams to do that.

It's all math.

You'll have to explain this to me. If there are less leagues but the same pyramid structure, the promotion and relegation numbers in each league could be maintained. Tinkerman's objection is somewhat valid, as I remember being relegated out of Diamond several times with records right around .500. Still, I'd prefer that to the constant battle for third place and shooting for .500 rather than shooting for the division title.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by LeeD

You'll have to explain this to me. If there are less leagues but the same pyramid structure, the promotion and relegation numbers in each league could be maintained. Tinkerman's objection is somewhat valid, as I remember being relegated out of Diamond several times with records right around .500. Still, I'd prefer that to the constant battle for third place and shooting for .500 rather than shooting for the division title.

I agree with you. I prefer the roller coaster ride of last year. A lot of people complained about that, though, so it was "fixed" this year, so the satisfied customers from last year could be made miserable this year.

The only requirement to maintain PeL at 40 teams is exactly 24 diamond leagues and the number of teams that turnover could be anything at that point using whatever numbers work level to level to maintain the pyramid. I think the math is quite flexible, but I could be wrong about that.

[Torgonius]

As of 9:11AM ET Sunday, 8/28,2022....

In PT22, there are 1795 leagues and 53788 teams.
There is 1 perfect league of 40 teams
There are 24 diamond leagues. In diamond, 1 team promotes, 10 relegate

In PT23, there are 417 leagues and 12444 teams. Less than 25% of what existed last year
There is 1 perfect league of 40 teams
There are 24 diamond leagues. In diamond, 1 team promotes, 4 teams relegate.

PT23 has 28 gold leagues. PT 22 has 59 gold leagues.
in PT23, 4 gold teams promote, 4 relegate
In PT22, 4 gold teams promote, 14 relegate

PT23 doesn't have enough teams or leagues to accommodate the more volatile Pro/Rel setup from PT22...

Silver
22 - 3 up, 6 down
23 - 4 up, 4 down

Bronze, Iron, Stone
22 - 6 up, 6 down
23 - 4 up, 4 down

Rookie
22 - 6 up
23 - 4 up

[smales72]

Is there a way to measure "active" teams? There has to be some give up factor for 22 and 23.

[LeeD]

Originally Posted by Torgonius

As of 9:11AM ET Sunday, 8/28,2022....

In PT22, there are 1795 leagues and 53788 teams.
There is 1 perfect league of 40 teams
There are 24 diamond leagues. In diamond, 1 team promotes, 10 relegate

In PT23, there are 417 leagues and 12444 teams. Less than 25% of what existed last year
There is 1 perfect league of 40 teams
There are 24 diamond leagues. In diamond, 1 team promotes, 4 teams relegate.

PT23 has 28 gold leagues. PT 22 has 59 gold leagues.
in PT23, 4 gold teams promote, 4 relegate
In PT22, 4 gold teams promote, 14 relegate

PT23 doesn't have enough teams or leagues to accommodate the more volatile Pro/Rel setup from PT22...

Silver
22 - 3 up, 6 down
23 - 4 up, 4 down

Bronze, Iron, Stone
22 - 6 up, 6 down
23 - 4 up, 4 down

Rookie
22 - 6 up
23 - 4 up

So...the base of the pyramid is smaller in relation to the tip? It isn't clear from your post but would presumably be so given your numbers. Still, it's the inclination of the pyramid that matters, not the number of teams involved. Ergo, the choke points are the Diamond leagues having the same number of teams and the Gold leagues having nearly half as many despite PT23 having less than a quarter the number of teams in PT22. Cut the Diamond leagues to six, the Gold to 16, spread the remainder downward, and you've fixed the problem. You promote more teams from Diamond to Perfect (4), from Gold to Diamond, and so on. You can now relegate more teams as well. Of course, this would not be possible without relegating a boatload of teams out of Diamond and Gold mid-year, so it would be highly unpopular to do it now. Nonetheless, it's a structural flaw based on the assumption that there'd be enough teams to maintain a 24-Diamond structure.

[LeeD]

Originally Posted by smales72

Is there a way to measure "active" teams? There has to be some give up factor for 22 and 23.

Don't know, but I had 13 teams in PT22 (GO let you get ten per license). All of them are inactive excepting that I check about once per month to drool over the hundreds of thousands of PP I have.

[Torgonius]

Originally Posted by LeeD

You promote more teams from Diamond to Perfect (4),

The thing that makes Perfect special is that you have to win a diamond championship to get in. Don't water it down like that.

[LeeD]

Originally Posted by Torgonius

The thing that makes Perfect special is that you have to win a diamond championship to get in. Don't water it down like that.

There is an alternative to that, too. You promote the six Diamond champions and only relegate the six worst Perfect teams. A little thin on relegation from Perfect, but it maintains the requirement to win Diamond in order to advance to the top league.What we have now is too thin on relegation (AND promotion) from the lower leagues, and there are a lot more of them with a lot more players.