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Old 07-14-2022, 09:09 PM   #1
choward2984
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Mound visits (I know this has been asked before..)

But is there a mechanic that could add to mound visits other than just giving the bullpen more time to warmup? Like the pitching coach could have a stat/rating where it boosts the pitcher on the mound? Doesn't have to work all the time, but just something that adds to the mound visit.

Would this work/be desirable?
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Old 07-14-2022, 09:23 PM   #2
RonCey10
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Yes, I used to play Earl Weaver Baseball and there were mount visits in the game. There was a short dialogue between the manager, pitcher and catcher and you would make a decision on the pitcher and catcher would say. It would be great to have something like this in OOTP.
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Old 07-14-2022, 09:33 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choward2984 View Post
But is there a mechanic that could add to mound visits other than just giving the bullpen more time to warmup? Like the pitching coach could have a stat/rating where it boosts the pitcher on the mound? Doesn't have to work all the time, but just something that adds to the mound visit.

Would this work/be desirable?

I swear, and this is purely anecdotal, that when i visit the mound during crucial situations i get better results following the visit.
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Old 07-14-2022, 10:13 PM   #4
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From the manual..


Quote:
Visit Mound The manager visits the pitcher on the mound. This option is usually used to try to calm down the pitcher if he has gotten in trouble. This option also helps use up some time if you are warming up a relief pitcher, and gives the manager a better idea of how tired his pitcher is.
There is a chance it can "help" the pitcher but... like real life it doesn't work all of the time.
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Old 07-14-2022, 11:16 PM   #5
choward2984
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Originally Posted by Sweed View Post
From the manual..




There is a chance it can "help" the pitcher but... like real life it doesn't work all of the time.
Okay. Thats exactly what I'm looking for. I'm not saying i want it to work everytime. But there is a strategy to it to calming a pitcher.
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Old 07-15-2022, 03:45 AM   #6
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The manual has many errors. Don't believe what it says unless you can verify it independently through game play.
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Old 07-15-2022, 09:24 AM   #7
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Anecdotal and a (relatively) small sample, but there are times when a mound visit following a string of hard hits does calm a pitcher down. Also, to my surprise, and without the “hint” of the “tired” indication, a pitcher will say “I’m about done”. Of course it doesn’t always work. To me, the indicator (for a mound visit or pulling the pitcher) is successive hard hits on the first pitch. And, if you use the pitch location and speed widget, pitches up in the zone or losing speed or movement (sliders that don’t slide). I’m reasonably confident the game provides those hints that a guy is gassed, or might need settling down.

What I truly wish for would be a dialogue out of “Ball Four”, where the group at the mound talk about a cute woman behind the dugout, or where they are eating after the game, great fishing holes. That’s a super clever way to get a hurler’s mind off of his troubles. Have the umpire come up and then join in the discussion. While the geniuses in the press box report they are no doubt discussing how to pitch the next hitter.

Last edited by Pelican; 07-15-2022 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 07-15-2022, 09:29 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Brad K View Post
The manual has many errors. Don't believe what it says unless you can verify it independently through game play.
I play out all games and to my mind mound visits having an affect have been shown to be true. Not every time, as it should be, but definitely does at times.

Sample size? 4,374 regular season games since the rewrite of 2006. I can't recall if visits were in 6.5 and before? If so you can add another 1,782 games.
This doesn't include all of the spring training games I play out, nor the playoffs.
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Old 07-15-2022, 10:32 AM   #9
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Quote:
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I play out all games and to my mind mound visits having an affect have been shown to be true. Not every time, as it should be, but definitely does at times.

Sample size? 4,374 regular season games since the rewrite of 2006. I can't recall if visits were in 6.5 and before? If so you can add another 1,782 games.
This doesn't include all of the spring training games I play out, nor the playoffs.

This. Mound visits definitely can have an impact.

Source: thousands of games played out since 2010.


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Old 07-15-2022, 11:30 AM   #10
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Yea, that's fine, but you'd think the number of times this has come up the devs would confirm it it true. And if it does have an effect it should not have any in historical games.

Let's also observe that the manual doesn't give the most lucid description of the function if it were anything other than cosmetics. And if it does work for a human player, where's the compensation for AI?
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Old 07-15-2022, 02:53 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by bwiese3908 View Post
I swear, and this is purely anecdotal, that when i visit the mound during crucial situations i get better results following the visit.
You are not alone.
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Old 07-15-2022, 02:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonCey10 View Post
Yes, I used to play Earl Weaver Baseball and there were mount visits in the game. There was a short dialogue between the manager, pitcher........

and in that short dialogue, Earl would drop 374 "F bombs"



Joking, obviously.



But I'm glad someone found that in the manual. I have never touched the manual in years of playing the game, not sure if that's good or bad. Regardless though, I've always felt the mound visits do sometimes help. Glad it's been confirmed.
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Old 07-15-2022, 03:05 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Brad K View Post
Yea, that's fine, but you'd think the number of times this has come up the devs would confirm it it true. And if it does have an effect it should not have any in historical games.

Let's also observe that the manual doesn't give the most lucid description of the function if it were anything other than cosmetics. And if it does work for a human player, where's the compensation for AI?
You'd have to ask them. PM them if it is a concern for you?

I can only speculate...

Why should they have to comment at all? It is in the manual. I'm not sure what words they could add to make it more clear? Your issues with the manual are your issues, not mine.

From my experience they could post every year when they release the "new feature" list that, like previous versions, mound visits "may" settle the P. Sometime during that first day someone would post "no they don't."

I'm not here to argue or explain the decisions the developer makes (refer to the bold above). Question was asked if mound visits have an effect. Question was answered.
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Old 07-15-2022, 03:47 PM   #14
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Let's be totally honest here..... do mound visits have any affect in real life?

There's no concrete answer for that. I don't see how you could statistically say that a little "rah rah" speech and pat on the butt makes a pitcher more likely to get the next guy out.

And even if there was a stat to say it helped, it would still drastically differ from one pitcher to the next and one pitching coach to the next.

So for the developers to come out and say with a definitive, yes or no - that kinda sorta takes the IRL element out of it because IRL there's no definitive answer for this either.
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Old 07-15-2022, 03:52 PM   #15
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IDK.

To piggy back of my above post, if the manual were to say this is when to promote a guy from the minors. This is the best budget to set on development. This is the best draft strategy to have. This is the best way to negotiate with free agents. Always visit the mount after a pitcher puts 2 consecutive men on base. Etc. Etc. Etc. is the game even fun anymore?

If we want the developers to lay out a step-by-step guide to winning the world series it takes all of the unknown out of it for me. Where's the fun in that?

The original post said in a different baseball game after a mound visit you would visibly see a boost in the pitcher's attributes if the visit "worked". I don't wanna see anything like that. How in any way is that realistic.
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Old 07-15-2022, 03:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweed View Post
You'd have to ask them. PM them if it is a concern for you?

I can only speculate...

Why should they have to comment at all? It is in the manual. I'm not sure what words they could add to make it more clear? Your issues with the manual are your issues, not mine.
Here is what is in the manual

The manager visits the pitcher on the mound. This option is usually used to try to calm down the pitcher if he has gotten in trouble. This option also helps use up some time if you are warming up a relief pitcher, and gives the manager a better idea of how tired his pitcher is.

"try to calm down the pitcher". No indication if it might work.

"gives the manager a better idea of how tired his pitcher is". What manger? Not the human manager. And that's the only one who can order a mound visit. There is no additional information to be gained about fatigue from a mound visit.

"You'd have to ask them. PM them if it is a concern for you?" I'm trying to answer questions just like others here. It's not a personal concern. I'm just trying to be helpful. The fact I disagree with you and others doesn't mean I'm not trying to be helpful.

It's evident from multiple discussions on this board that the devs don't know the details of how the game works. Changes were not properly documented contemporaneously and as scary as it sounds the game manual is probably the best documentation that exists.

That's why you get answers like "If I remember correctly" and "I think what we did there was"

OOTP is a remarkable achievement. It's a great game. And it accomplishes that despite best practices for documentation not being followed. (I didn't even reach "kinda good practices!" )

Anyway, the non committal wording in the manual for the effect on the pitcher and the completely wrong comment on determining fatigue tells me this feature is cosmetic. And it should be for historical games.
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Old 07-15-2022, 05:42 PM   #17
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Seems to help, at least in 22:

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=331046
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Old 07-15-2022, 06:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad K View Post
Here is what is in the manual

The manager visits the pitcher on the mound. This option is usually used to try to calm down the pitcher if he has gotten in trouble. This option also helps use up some time if you are warming up a relief pitcher, and gives the manager a better idea of how tired his pitcher is.

"try to calm down the pitcher". No indication if it might work.

"gives the manager a better idea of how tired his pitcher is". What manger? Not the human manager. And that's the only one who can order a mound visit. There is no additional information to be gained about fatigue from a mound visit.

"You'd have to ask them. PM them if it is a concern for you?" I'm trying to answer questions just like others here. It's not a personal concern. I'm just trying to be helpful. The fact I disagree with you and others doesn't mean I'm not trying to be helpful.

It's evident from multiple discussions on this board that the devs don't know the details of how the game works. Changes were not properly documented contemporaneously and as scary as it sounds the game manual is probably the best documentation that exists.

That's why you get answers like "If I remember correctly" and "I think what we did there was"

OOTP is a remarkable achievement. It's a great game. And it accomplishes that despite best practices for documentation not being followed. (I didn't even reach "kinda good practices!" )

Anyway, the non committal wording in the manual for the effect on the pitcher and the completely wrong comment on determining fatigue tells me this feature is cosmetic. And it should be for historical games.
It tells you it is just cosmetic? Ok..
The pitcher will literally tell you, the manager, that he is "still strong", "starting to run out of gas", "exhausted" etc. (not the exact words but an approx thing the P might tell you). So how is this completely wrong on determining fatigue?

Do you actually play out your games and use the mound visit feature? Not a game, here and there, but over a long haul?


The wording tells you it is cosmetic. 4,374 played out games tells me it is not cosmetic. Guess which way I'm leaning?

Yeah, I was the first to quote the manual in this thread. And yes, it does say..
Quote:
This option is usually used to try to calm down the pitcher
Nothing ambiguous there.. It literally says "usually used". Can't use something that isn't there.

That's why I say it does the developer no good to comment. Even though it's in the manual, if they double down. they won't be believed.

Look at the game engine, how many times they've said it's the same whether
you sim or play out the games. Only to be told by some users, time and time again, that is not true. According to those users the engines are definitely different depending on how you play.

About historical..
Historical, like any league you play, you can choose not to use the visits. Me? When I play historical I use real lineups and just watch the games play out. Kind of like going back in time to my youth. I couldn't visit the mound if I wanted to. Others that play historical and manage too, may want the feature. Nothing wrong with that. Let' them play it their way.

Nowhere have I said you weren't trying to be helpful.

Well looking at last year's thread there is this..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad K View Post
I just realized my comments are irrelevant. I don't play out games anymore!
Has something changed?
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Old 07-15-2022, 06:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by md40022 View Post
Let's be totally honest here..... do mound visits have any affect in real life?

There's no concrete answer for that. I don't see how you could statistically say that a little "rah rah" speech and pat on the butt makes a pitcher more likely to get the next guy out.
Is that what you think happens durng a mound visit? That kind of mound visit exists especially for a rookie or someone suddenly wild or rushing his delivery.

A similar but more important visit comes when the pitcher has thrown 25-30 pitches in an inning or is approaching his pitch limit for the gane. The coach (or catcher, in bygone days) gets the pitcher a breather and finds out how much gas is left in the tank (or if he's hurt).

The coach might tell the pitcher he's tipping pitches or being too predictable, needs to throw a certain pitch more, or pitch faster or slower, or remind him about a scouting report for a particular situation. He might suggest an intentional walk or want to discuss the idea with the pitcher.

In almost every game it seems there's a mound visit followed immediately by a strikeout or groundout or popup to end an inning.

Finally, I use them a lot in OOTP and am with the "anecdotal evidence" folks. As Yogi said, 50% of the time it works 100% of the time
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Old 07-17-2022, 01:45 AM   #20
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I still want to see an alternative (or even addition) to the stamina bar we get where the pitching coach might have a pop up and say he is looking tired, or might wanna get someone up in the pen and maybe not have the stamina bar be 100% accurate and have some small room for error. and expanded to the mound visit where you get better feedback than currently where the pitcher always says he is good unless the stamina is completely tanked.
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