Mike Hampton - Page 2

I Am The Game · 04-01-2002, 10:31 PM

Don't take with what he did last year in Coors completely. Take his three year totals. That will give you a nice dosage of 2 pitchers parks in the Astrodome and Shea, and a hitters park in Coors. Should average out fine.

And Coors effects you home and road. Just like the players who hit the ball out of Coors have trouble hitting the ball as a Rockie, but they kill the ball in Coors (who doesn't), their trouble is out of Coors. It becomes a mental issue. Hampton got off to a hot start last year, home and road, until he started having a bad start or two at home.

And it was pointed out and I just want to agree. In Coors you get tired faster because you throw a lot of pitches in those oh-so-common three run innings. And even if you go 7 innings give up 6 ER (quality start in Coors), the chances are a reliever comes in gives up a 3 run bomb and the game is tied at 9, and then you aren't eligible for the win anymore.

Hampton may be struggling this year because of last year at Coors, and then he goes to Arizona and gets tagged like a lot of pitchers did this spring in the Cactus League. Not a confidence booster that's for sure. If Colorado ever trades him like they did with Kile he'll be fine. Until then, expect mediocrity from an Ace.

The kicker about this is, him and Kile are friends and Kile was trying to get him to come to St.Louis. I'm sure him and Kile talked about Kile's struggles in Coors while Hampton was in Houston and then New York, so he really has nobody to blame but his greedy self IMO.

Jason Moyer · 04-01-2002, 11:00 PM

In 1999 Pedro Astacio went 17-11 with a 5.04 ERA as a Rockie. The adjusted league average ERA taking into account half his games were played in Denver was 5.75.

In the same year Darryl Kile went 8-13 with a 6.61 ERA. The reason he lost gamse wasn't because he was in Denver, it was because his ERA was a full run above the adjusted league average (5.75 as above).

Mike Hampton went 14-13 last year with a 5.41 ERA. He should consider himself fortunate since the adjusted league average was 5.19.

I'm not saying who the better pitchers are, but if your ERA is higher than the adjusted league average you're not going to win many games in any park.

As a side note for people who think Rolen's roster set is biased towards the Phillies, note that the opening day rotation (not counting Coggins, but including Wolf) includes 4 pitchers whose ERA's were under the park-adjusted average ERA's last year (Person, Wolf, Duckworth, Padilla). It doesn't take a genius to figure out you win games if you allow fewer runs than your opponents. =)

Jason

CBL-Commish · 04-02-2002, 02:47 AM

The problem with Rockies' pitchers is that it takes a different approach to win games in Colorado than it does in a "normal" park. Because a very large percentage of balls in play (e.g. not strikeouts) become hits, strikeout pitchers are at a premium in Colorado, even if they walk a lot of batters. (In an aside, this is also a reason that free swingers like Bichette and Pierre are valuable in Colorado - a very high percentage of balls in play become hits, offsetting the fact they walk about once a month)

But because breaking balls don't work well at altitude, it's harder for most pitchers to get strikeouts. So you have to find some pitchers like a young Nolan Ryan who can get tons of Ks by just blowing people away with heat. But that approach isn't as successful on the road, because the large walk totals become detrimental in a normal environment.

Somehow the Rockies need to find pitchers who can successfuly alter their approaches depending on where the game is being played, or use some kind of strange home/road pitching platoon. It hasn't happened yet.

J P Falcon · 04-02-2002, 03:42 AM

One study recommended that the Rockies go to a 6 man rotation because their starters were worn out by August. I doubt it will ever be done, but it would be an interesting if put into practice.

Chris M. · 04-02-2002, 04:25 AM

I don't know how realistically rolen has rated Mike Hampton -- only time will tell. It's certainly incorrect to say that he had a lousy year last year. What he had was a lousy second half of the year; he was a legit all-star in the first half, Coors Field or no Coors Field. Supposedly he had a non-publicized groin pull. Maybe. Maybe When the Rockies went on their patented June/July swoon the pressure to stop the losing single-handedly got to be too much for him. Who knows? The only thing we know for sure is that he's not throwing with the same mechanics, similar to the problem he had when he struggled early on with the Mets. Hopefully he'll be able to correct the problem, and soon. If not, then maybe he was rated too high! Because when his release point is off, clearly he's nothing special. Hampton's a bulldog, so hopefully he'll fight through this.

The six-pitcher rotation idea is interesting. I don't know if that's the problem though. I'm pretty sure that Rockies starters don't throw particularly more innings than starters on other teams -- because usually if they get shelled and run it's early rather than later. I think the problem for the Rockies is that you need to have a bunch of high-quality middle relievers, something few teams who don't play at Coors Field can pull off.

Another interesting idea I've heard is the suggestion that, like professional tennis, MLB should adopt a special high-altitude deadball to be used at Coors Field and other high-altitude minor league parks. It wouldn't do anything about curve balls not breaking as well, but it would certainly help. Probably never happen though unless Emporer For Life BeelzeBud decides to make it another one of his pet causes.

--Chris M.

Erich Ingram · 04-25-2002, 05:23 AM

Just wondering if people have been keeping up with Mike Hampton. Looks more and more like a bad year for him. ERA has finally gotten down to 8.88 and not a win in sight. Still walking more than he strikes out.

I am just wondering when everyone thinks he is going to get it going this year? Maybe this year he will be exactly opposite of last year when he started off great and then imploded but then again maybe not.

Hammer755 · 04-25-2002, 05:39 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Rolen17:
Just wondering if people have been keeping up with Mike Hampton. Looks more and more like a bad year for him. ERA has finally gotten down to 8.88 and not a win in sight. Still walking more than he strikes out.

I am just wondering when everyone thinks he is going to get it going this year? Maybe this year he will be exactly opposite of last year when he started off great and then imploded but then again maybe not.<hr /></blockquote>I don't think any starting pitcher can be successful playing for the Rockies. Hampton is a mess mentally, and over the past couple of years his road numbers are just as poor as his stats at Coors. Pitching in that park for half a season messes with your head, and I think the only way for Hampton to revert to All-Star form is to get out of Denver. Everyone said that Darryl Kile was done, but he left for St. Louis and has been one of the best pitchers in the NL since. There are rumors going around that Colorado offered Hampton and Larry Walker to Boston for Manny Ramirez, but obviously that's just a rumor at this point.

I heard Leo Mazzone on the Dan Patrick show a few days ago, and he concurred that there may not be a single pitcher today that is mentally strong enough to pitch an entire season in Coors. He cited Glavine's amazing Coors record (2 shutouts), but Mazzone said he didn't think even Glavine could be successful pitching for the Rockies.

jmel07 · 04-25-2002, 08:24 AM

I think what everyone has overlooked is that Hampton has the chance to hit 5-10 HRs in Coors every year. Maybe he went there for the hitting aspect of his game. It's possible that he thought he could hit one HR each game and thus negate one run on his ERA

smeyers003 · 04-25-2002, 01:57 PM

Hampton deserves all he gets. He decided to trash his carrer for $$. His greed has given him horrible stats(pitching at least) and a losing team. He should have stayed with the Mets.

HolyCow98 · 04-25-2002, 02:40 PM

I think Mike Hampton is also a mess mentally but that is not the point, I think his ratings have to be based on how he performs on the field with, at the most, a slight adjustment due to the stadium he plays for. I mean OOTP doesn't simulate the mental toughness of the players so all you have to go on is performance. On the other hand I think if Mike Hampton ever plays for another team that he has an extremely good chance to regain most if not all of his past form, IMO.

Carplos · 04-25-2002, 04:53 PM

Does anybody even remember that he pitched in Astrodome and Shea Stadium before Planet Coors? Doesn't shock me THAT much that he did crap in Coors. Look at Jose Lima.

Carplos · 04-25-2002, 04:54 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by smeyers003:
Hampton deserves all he gets. He decided to trash his carrer for $$. His greed has given him horrible stats(pitching at least) and a losing team. He should have stayed with the Mets.<hr /></blockquote>Greed? The Mets offered him MORE money than the Rockies. His wife got mugged in NY and they generally hated the place.

04-01-2002, 11:00 PM	#22
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,108	In 1999 Pedro Astacio went 17-11 with a 5.04 ERA as a Rockie. The adjusted league average ERA taking into account half his games were played in Denver was 5.75. In the same year Darryl Kile went 8-13 with a 6.61 ERA. The reason he lost gamse wasn't because he was in Denver, it was because his ERA was a full run above the adjusted league average (5.75 as above). Mike Hampton went 14-13 last year with a 5.41 ERA. He should consider himself fortunate since the adjusted league average was 5.19. I'm not saying who the better pitchers are, but if your ERA is higher than the adjusted league average you're not going to win many games in any park. As a side note for people who think Rolen's roster set is biased towards the Phillies, note that the opening day rotation (not counting Coggins, but including Wolf) includes 4 pitchers whose ERA's were under the park-adjusted average ERA's last year (Person, Wolf, Duckworth, Padilla). It doesn't take a genius to figure out you win games if you allow fewer runs than your opponents. =) Jason __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech

04-02-2002, 02:47 AM	#23
CBL-Commish All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,999	The problem with Rockies' pitchers is that it takes a different approach to win games in Colorado than it does in a "normal" park. Because a very large percentage of balls in play (e.g. not strikeouts) become hits, strikeout pitchers are at a premium in Colorado, even if they walk a lot of batters. (In an aside, this is also a reason that free swingers like Bichette and Pierre are valuable in Colorado - a very high percentage of balls in play become hits, offsetting the fact they walk about once a month) But because breaking balls don't work well at altitude, it's harder for most pitchers to get strikeouts. So you have to find some pitchers like a young Nolan Ryan who can get tons of Ks by just blowing people away with heat. But that approach isn't as successful on the road, because the large walk totals become detrimental in a normal environment. Somehow the Rockies need to find pitchers who can successfuly alter their approaches depending on where the game is being played, or use some kind of strange home/road pitching platoon. It hasn't happened yet. __________________ For the best in O's news: Orioles' Hangout.com

04-25-2002, 05:23 AM	#26
Erich Ingram Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 2,217	Just wondering if people have been keeping up with Mike Hampton. Looks more and more like a bad year for him. ERA has finally gotten down to 8.88 and not a win in sight. Still walking more than he strikes out. I am just wondering when everyone thinks he is going to get it going this year? Maybe this year he will be exactly opposite of last year when he started off great and then imploded but then again maybe not. __________________ Erich Ingram (Rolen17) IOSBL San Diego Aztecs 2010, 2012,2013, 2014 World Series Champions Maelstrom Padres 2026 World Champions eMLB Washington Nationals

04-25-2002, 05:39 AM	#27
Hammer755 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,348	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Rolen17: <strong>Just wondering if people have been keeping up with Mike Hampton. Looks more and more like a bad year for him. ERA has finally gotten down to 8.88 and not a win in sight. Still walking more than he strikes out. I am just wondering when everyone thinks he is going to get it going this year? Maybe this year he will be exactly opposite of last year when he started off great and then imploded but then again maybe not.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think any starting pitcher can be successful playing for the Rockies. Hampton is a mess mentally, and over the past couple of years his road numbers are just as poor as his stats at Coors. Pitching in that park for half a season messes with your head, and I think the only way for Hampton to revert to All-Star form is to get out of Denver. Everyone said that Darryl Kile was done, but he left for St. Louis and has been one of the best pitchers in the NL since. There are rumors going around that Colorado offered Hampton and Larry Walker to Boston for Manny Ramirez, but obviously that's just a rumor at this point. I heard Leo Mazzone on the Dan Patrick show a few days ago, and he concurred that there may not be a single pitcher today that is mentally strong enough to pitch an entire season in Coors. He cited Glavine's amazing Coors record (2 shutouts), but Mazzone said he didn't think even Glavine could be successful pitching for the Rockies.

04-25-2002, 02:40 PM	#30
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	I think Mike Hampton is also a mess mentally but that is not the point, I think his ratings have to be based on how he performs on the field with, at the most, a slight adjustment due to the stadium he plays for. I mean OOTP doesn't simulate the mental toughness of the players so all you have to go on is performance. On the other hand I think if Mike Hampton ever plays for another team that he has an extremely good chance to regain most if not all of his past form, IMO. __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

04-01-2002, 10:31 PM	#21
I Am The Game All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 691	Don't take with what he did last year in Coors completely. Take his three year totals. That will give you a nice dosage of 2 pitchers parks in the Astrodome and Shea, and a hitters park in Coors. Should average out fine. And Coors effects you home and road. Just like the players who hit the ball out of Coors have trouble hitting the ball as a Rockie, but they kill the ball in Coors (who doesn't), their trouble is out of Coors. It becomes a mental issue. Hampton got off to a hot start last year, home and road, until he started having a bad start or two at home. And it was pointed out and I just want to agree. In Coors you get tired faster because you throw a lot of pitches in those oh-so-common three run innings. And even if you go 7 innings give up 6 ER (quality start in Coors), the chances are a reliever comes in gives up a 3 run bomb and the game is tied at 9, and then you aren't eligible for the win anymore. Hampton may be struggling this year because of last year at Coors, and then he goes to Arizona and gets tagged like a lot of pitchers did this spring in the Cactus League. Not a confidence booster that's for sure. If Colorado ever trades him like they did with Kile he'll be fine. Until then, expect mediocrity from an Ace. The kicker about this is, him and Kile are friends and Kile was trying to get him to come to St.Louis. I'm sure him and Kile talked about Kile's struggles in Coors while Hampton was in Houston and then New York, so he really has nobody to blame but his greedy self IMO.

04-02-2002, 03:42 AM	#24
J P Falcon Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 406	One study recommended that the Rockies go to a 6 man rotation because their starters were worn out by August. I doubt it will ever be done, but it would be an interesting if put into practice.

04-02-2002, 04:25 AM	#25
Chris M. Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 11	I don't know how realistically rolen has rated Mike Hampton -- only time will tell. It's certainly incorrect to say that he had a lousy year last year. What he had was a lousy second half of the year; he was a legit all-star in the first half, Coors Field or no Coors Field. Supposedly he had a non-publicized groin pull. Maybe. Maybe When the Rockies went on their patented June/July swoon the pressure to stop the losing single-handedly got to be too much for him. Who knows? The only thing we know for sure is that he's not throwing with the same mechanics, similar to the problem he had when he struggled early on with the Mets. Hopefully he'll be able to correct the problem, and soon. If not, then maybe he was rated too high! Because when his release point is off, clearly he's nothing special. Hampton's a bulldog, so hopefully he'll fight through this. The six-pitcher rotation idea is interesting. I don't know if that's the problem though. I'm pretty sure that Rockies starters don't throw particularly more innings than starters on other teams -- because usually if they get shelled and run it's early rather than later. I think the problem for the Rockies is that you need to have a bunch of high-quality middle relievers, something few teams who don't play at Coors Field can pull off. Another interesting idea I've heard is the suggestion that, like professional tennis, MLB should adopt a special high-altitude deadball to be used at Coors Field and other high-altitude minor league parks. It wouldn't do anything about curve balls not breaking as well, but it would certainly help. Probably never happen though unless Emporer For Life BeelzeBud decides to make it another one of his pet causes. --Chris M.

04-25-2002, 08:24 AM	#28
jmel07 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 136	I think what everyone has overlooked is that Hampton has the chance to hit 5-10 HRs in Coors every year. Maybe he went there for the hitting aspect of his game. It's possible that he thought he could hit one HR each game and thus negate one run on his ERA

04-25-2002, 01:57 PM	#29
smeyers003 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 416	Hampton deserves all he gets. He decided to trash his carrer for $$. His greed has given him horrible stats(pitching at least) and a losing team. He should have stayed with the Mets.

04-25-2002, 04:53 PM	#31
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,896 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	Does anybody even remember that he pitched in Astrodome and Shea Stadium before Planet Coors? Doesn't shock me THAT much that he did crap in Coors. Look at Jose Lima.

04-25-2002, 04:54 PM	#32
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,896 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by smeyers003: <strong>Hampton deserves all he gets. He decided to trash his carrer for $$. His greed has given him horrible stats(pitching at least) and a losing team. He should have stayed with the Mets.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Greed? The Mets offered him MORE money than the Rockies. His wife got mugged in NY and they generally hated the place.