Negotiations Still Horribly Broken

[Tazilon]

Not certain how the OOTP negotiation system can remain so bad year after year, but here it is - still horrible in OOTP23.

Typical sequence for a star player's negotiatons:

30 year old player making $23,000,000 per year demands $43,000,000 for 7 years.

You counter with an offer of $35,000,000 for 6 years.

Instead of shooting for somewhere between his offer and yours, player returns with a demand for $46,000,000 for 7 years.

This is NOT how negotiations work!

When will you finally fix this crap? It's been going on for years now.

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by Tazilon

Not certain how the OOTP negotiation system can remain so bad year after year, but here it is - still horrible in OOTP23.

Typical sequence for a star player's negotiatons:

30 year old player making $23,000,000 per year demands $43,000,000 for 7 years.

You counter with an offer of $35,000,000 for 6 years.

Instead of shooting for somewhere between his offer and yours, player returns with a demand for $46,000,000 for 7 years.

This is NOT how negotiations work!

When will you finally fix this crap? It's been going on for years now.

I always took that as "now you've pissed him off."


Let him stew and come back to him later.

[DG18]

I've also just looked at that as the game's way of letting you know that a player wants to test the market.

[andyhdz]

Originally Posted by Tazilon

Not certain how the OOTP negotiation system can remain so bad year after year, but here it is - still horrible in OOTP23.

Typical sequence for a star player's negotiatons:

30 year old player making $23,000,000 per year demands $43,000,000 for 7 years.

You counter with an offer of $35,000,000 for 6 years.

Instead of shooting for somewhere between his offer and yours, player returns with a demand for $46,000,000 for 7 years.

This is NOT how negotiations work!

When will you finally fix this crap? It's been going on for years now.

Your not haggling for a dresser at a local flea market where he'll meet you half way. Stay reasonably close to his asking price and it works better.

[tehsuigi]

Originally Posted by DG18

I've also just looked at that as the game's way of letting you know that a player wants to test the market.

Where he will inevitably take a smaller offer than the initial one you gave him, because of course.

[Clavette]

Originally Posted by tehsuigi

Where he will inevitably take a smaller offer than the initial one you gave him, because of course.

This is my only complaint with negotiations. It just happens too often

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by Tazilon

Not certain how the OOTP negotiation system can remain so bad year after year, but here it is - still horrible in OOTP23.

Typical sequence for a star player's negotiatons:

30 year old player making $23,000,000 per year demands $43,000,000 for 7 years.

You counter with an offer of $35,000,000 for 6 years.

Instead of shooting for somewhere between his offer and yours, player returns with a demand for $46,000,000 for 7 years.

This is NOT how negotiations work!

When will you finally fix this crap? It's been going on for years now.

If you're offering 20% less than the asking price, I agree that coming back with an ask increase of 5% is pretty unrealistic. The more realistic outcome would be the player hanging up and no longer getting your phone calls answered by that player or any other player the agent represents.

My experience is that this basically never happens unless I massively lowball someone (which is what offering 35M to a player asking 43M is).

[Ratbelly]

I dont have an issue with that. He thinks your counter was silly so he gave you silly response back. I thin the optimal solution though would be for him to stay to his original asking price.

[AirmenSmith]

My biggest issue with it also is when they end up taking way less money then you offered and never gives you the chance to make the same offer again.

I will say that one of the first things I do in the real world game is adjust the financials for player salaries. I lower them a lot otherwise you are getting demands of 50/60 mil in a few seasons.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

If you're offering 20% less than the asking price, I agree that coming back with an ask increase of 5% is pretty unrealistic. The more realistic outcome would be the player hanging up and no longer getting your phone calls answered by that player or any other player the agent represents.

My experience is that this basically never happens unless I massively lowball someone (which is what offering 35M to a player asking 43M is).

Why not just have.the player not move off of his asking price at all?

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by Tazilon

Not certain how the OOTP negotiation system can remain so bad year after year, but here it is - still horrible in OOTP23.

Typical sequence for a star player's negotiatons:

30 year old player making $23,000,000 per year demands $43,000,000 for 7 years.

You counter with an offer of $35,000,000 for 6 years.

Instead of shooting for somewhere between his offer and yours, player returns with a demand for $46,000,000 for 7 years.

This is NOT how negotiations work!



When will you finally fix this crap? It's been going on for years now.

Is it a common occurrence for all players? What happens when YOU meet him in the middle?

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Why not just have.the player not move off of his asking price at all?

From a realistic answer, because giving insulting offers makes a player less eager to sign with you so his price went up.

From a gameplay perspective, it's basically exactly what everyone always says they don't like about "Make This Work Now" if the player stays at his asking price, where you can just super lowball every player then nickel and dime them bit by bit until you find the lowest price they'll accept.

[andyhdz]

Originally Posted by AirmenSmith

My biggest issue with it also is when they end up taking way less money then you offered and never gives you the chance to make the same offer again.

I will say that one of the first things I do in the real world game is adjust the financials for player salaries. I lower them a lot otherwise you are getting demands of 50/60 mil in a few seasons.

No, that only happens when your team revenue is way too much. I've had my league for over a hundred years and my asking price is still around 2020 salaries

[Ktulu]

That's a $91m difference. Not exactly close.

[Pelican]

What I see more frequently is a player responding to a decent offer by not changing his position. At all. But this may be dependent on the circumstances. I'm usually trying to resurrect a moribund franchise, and the player may want to move onto a contender.

What bothers me much more is bewildering responses from young, pre-arb players I want to lock up on multi-year contracts. Remember, I don't have to do anything, and he makes the minimum, no matter how good he is. So I offer multiple years at several million a year. The response is not to ask for more, but to ask for a single year contract - at less money! This is important to me, because I think teams are missing the chance to lock up young players, by paying value early, regardless of the continued unreasonable restraints on players' earning in their first three years.

[MrDov]

I think this behavior is more realistic than you think. Look at Judge and the Yankees this year. Freddie Freeman with the Braves. Baez, Bryant, and Rizzo with the Cubs. Ian Desmond with the Nationals. There will be dozens of more examples, that’s just quickly off the top of my head. Every spring training I feel like multiple teams have a storyline along the lines of “star player X and team Y are negotiating an extension, but player X wants to wrap up negotiations before the season starts” then you never hear another peep about it, presumably because they couldn’t come close to a deal.

If a player thinks they’re worth $46M per year, why should they settle for 75% of that. Or what I think is more likely the case, if a player wants to experience FA and/or leave your team and join a different one for whatever reason, of course they’d only sign an extension that’s too good to pass up. Anything remotely market rate they’ll just wait on. And if they end up signing a FA deal for less than what you offered, then they should find a new agent. But it’s not like it’s unheard of for a guy to misjudge the market.

[progen]

Originally Posted by Pelican

What I see more frequently is a player responding to a decent offer by not changing his position. At all. But this may be dependent on the circumstances. I'm usually trying to resurrect a moribund franchise, and the player may want to move onto a contender.

What bothers me much more is bewildering responses from young, pre-arb players I want to lock up on multi-year contracts. Remember, I don't have to do anything, and he makes the minimum, no matter how good he is. So I offer multiple years at several million a year. The response is not to ask for more, but to ask for a single year contract - at less money! This is important to me, because I think teams are missing the chance to lock up young players, by paying value early, regardless of the continued unreasonable restraints on players' earning in their first three years.

I'm with you there. It does get frustrating. I usually play with a low market team, or an expansion team(Montreal), so I have to be cost savvy. When I offer a multi-year deal at more than his one year asking price, the player will respond with, like the money, but not number of years, then he'll ask for a one year deal for "more money." Maybe he feels, hey, if they have that kind of money, why not ask for more for one year, which does make some sense I guess.

Tripling his original asking price, or more maybe would get a deal done, but I don't have the money of a Dodgers or Red Sox team. I never tried that, but perhaps one time I will, just to see what happens.

[Mat]

Originally Posted by progen

I'm with you there. It does get frustrating. I usually play with a low market team, or an expansion team(Montreal), so I have to be cost savvy. When I offer a multi-year deal at more than his one year asking price, the player will respond with, like the money, but not number of years, then he'll ask for a one year deal for "more money." Maybe he feels, hey, if they have that kind of money, why not ask for more for one year, which does make some sense I guess.

Tripling his original asking price, or more maybe would get a deal done, but I don't have the money of a Dodgers or Red Sox team. I never tried that, but perhaps one time I will, just to see what happens.

I think it is a little disingenuous to offer decent arb eligible players long term contracts and expect them to take it?

If you want to lock a decent player to a long term contract you better chuck the kitchen sink at them yeah?

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by Mat

I think it is a little disingenuous to offer decent arb eligible players long term contracts and expect them to take it?

If you want to lock a decent player to a long term contract you better chuck the kitchen sink at them yeah?

My guess is that for a while now (though it's changing with Wander/Tatis, and whatever truck of money Soto/Vlad/Bo will get) people looked at the Acuna and Albies deals as reasonable pre-Arb extensions, and not players being MASSIVELY exploited by their agents.

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by MathBandit

If you're offering 20% less than the asking price, I agree that coming back with an ask increase of 5% is pretty unrealistic. The more realistic outcome would be the player hanging up and no longer getting your phone calls answered by that player or any other player the agent represents.

My experience is that this basically never happens unless I massively lowball someone (which is what offering 35M to a player asking 43M is).

While I wouldn't say it would happen often I can see the tactic if I were the player. You wanna low ball me, I was trying to compromise now I am asking for what I really think I am worth. Is it a good tactic? It is a game of brinksmanship so it is very risky. It can happen but it might be happening a bit too much.