The OOTP Clubhouse Atmosphere

RubeBaker · 04-23-2022, 12:33 PM

I have been an OOTP customer since 2013. Prior to that I was playing Diamond Mind Baseball for almost twenty years. I briefly dabbled in playing Strat-O-Matic Baseball's computer game which was fun as was Diamond Mind, but they were mostly made for replaying seasons. What I wanted to do was play seasons. Be the manager. Be the GM. And, finally, there was a computer game on the market which provided that: Out of the Park Baseball.

In the last 9 years, I have watched this game grow from a cult status to mainstream status. I watched the OOTP YouTube channel grow from a handful of basic tutorial videos to daily and weekly streaming of franchises, tutorials, and a partnership with Major League Baseball. You know you have officially made it when your baseball game is used on MLB Network as a tool for analyzing and predicting a season.

This community has also grown in the last nine years, not just here, but on platforms such as Discord, Podcasts, and Twitch where thousands, if not millions, of devoted gamers are participating in discussions and often help one another with basic strategy questions or troubleshooting. As someone who works frequently with IT, I am truly amazed at how quickly the OOTP team responds to bugs, crashes, and errors. I sincerely envy the quick turnaround time and can personally attest to how this team frequently goes above and beyond delivering world-class service to its customers.

However, it occurs to me that perusing the forums here in the past week, not to mention recent months, some of you do not share the same sentiments as I do. Let me just say that I do not think criticism is a bad thing. OOTP may have given us Perfect Team, but it is far from a perfect game. Yet I think the team is fully aware of that which is why they constantly strive year-in and year-out to make improvements on the game to get it as close to perfection as possible, fully realizing they will likely never reach total perfection. And I'm sure Markus and his team welcome constructive criticism as it will help them learn and reevaluate what's working and what's not working with regards to OOTP, FHM, etc.

Criticism is one thing; toxicity is another. I am disappointed and disheartened to read so many negative comments and personal attacks on the OOTP team and its community by some on these forums. It makes sense that you're frustrated with the delay of Perfect Team. I get it. It does not make sense that you take out your frustrations on good people, most of whom you do not know, who are dong the best they can to work on getting issues resolved or willing to help other members of the community. This is something I have witnessed on Discord, Twitch, and YouTube as well and I personally am sick of it.

Perfect Team will soon be here before we know it, and I'll miss Kris running the operation, but I'm rooting for Dishnet and confident he's going to do a fine job once everything gets up and running. I know it's difficult in these times to exercise patience, but there are far worse problems going on in this country and in this world right now than the delay of a video game or a feature within it. We have OOTP23 and I am grateful for that. I look forward to playing Perfect Team soon, but in the meantime I'm going to enjoy the hell out of running my franchise and testing out all of the new features.

To the OOTP Team, I would like to leave you with this that a friend of mine once told me, "Never let the negativity get to you. There are gonna be a lot of people you have to plow through, but as long you believe in yourself, that's all that matters." Thank you for listening.

BirdWatcher · 04-23-2022, 12:42 PM

Hear, hear!

Ty Cobb · 04-23-2022, 12:56 PM

Been here since 6.5. Agree with you 100%, and you said it well.

Germaniac · 04-23-2022, 01:00 PM

I absolutely agree.

Sh** happens, but what went on here over the past 24 hours was way beyond my imagination

stevem810 · 04-23-2022, 01:11 PM

OOTP has brought much joy over the years. I enjoy it as much as ever.

Regarding thoughtless and hurtful comments I have found it best to not respond to them.

Nero · 04-23-2022, 01:52 PM

Since '99..before the forums got merged over here.

OOTP has been an annual rite of spring for me. It's always, always scratched an itch for me, and I certainly appreciate how the game as evolved, for a "simulation" style game, there isn't anything better for my mind.

I don't spend a ton of time on the forums, but they were always a place to go for some help, and served as a great reference. It was cool to occasionally sit and read about the seasons, and worlds many of you had developed. Like the OP said, these days I see more griping, but I attribute it to the fact that OOTP is more popular. Way back when, it was the same people posting year after year, and the cult following was because we loved the game. These days, anyone who picks up the game is instantly an "expert". Hey, spend your money, you've got every right to speak your mind, but the quality of opinion, and the value should be properly evaluated.

Baseball is a long season, with a 162 regular season games, PT may have had a rough start, or non-start, but I've got ever reason to believe in the team, and that they'll get it going shortly. Treading water and going .500 or staying just barely in contention works, its' just a few games in. Rest assured well before the weather gets hot, OOTP's bats will get hot, the arms will turn in consistent top appearances, and as usual OOTP will make it to October in 1st place.

The world isn't ending. Not today at least....

Scipio Africanus · 04-23-2022, 01:54 PM

Glad it's not just me who thinks the forum has gotten a lot more hostile lately. I think people should be able to post their complaints and allow for some honest, non-ad hominem responses, but the threads are being left open waaaayyy too long when nothing constructive is being added. I wish the mods would take a heavier hand, not with banning and such, just with locking threads.

PSUColonel · 04-23-2022, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus

Glad it's not just me who thinks the forum has gotten a lot more hostile lately. I think people should be able to post their complaints and allow for some honest, non-ad hominem responses, but the threads are being left open waaaayyy too long when nothing constructive is being added. I wish the mods would take a heavier hand, not with banning and such, just with locking threads.

Look at it this way...this will happen with success. There is going to be a to more traffic in this community than in the past, so it's not just going to be us old head analytic types. When you go to other mainstream game forums, you will encounter the same type of behavior. These guys have thick skin, believe me. hey have put up with the likes of myself for 23 years lol.

You are right though...constructive criticism should always be welcomed, as I believe it's what has helped build this franchise....unfortunately, you are going to get some wahoos also....just the nature of the beast.

Nero · 04-23-2022, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus

Glad it's not just me who thinks the forum has gotten a lot more hostile lately. I think people should be able to post their complaints and allow for some honest, non-ad hominem responses, but the threads are being left open waaaayyy too long when nothing constructive is being added. I wish the mods would take a heavier hand, not with banning and such, just with locking threads.

I'm not sure I want more moderation....

My belief is that more and more people seem to think that their individual issue applies to everyone, or that they are speaking for everyone. Add in the fact that if they post, they expect an immediate solution, act of contrition, and apology.

Fifteen years ago, the smaller group that was playing was more invested in seeing the game improve, and didn't feel that we were owed anything. (That's a generalization, because there are always outliers.)

Different generation? Millennials? I suppose any explanation is equally valid. I think the safest way to go is that the forum is a reflection of the world we live in at last.

Scipio Africanus · 04-23-2022, 04:10 PM

I'm tempted to blame social media. But then I remember the USENET forums from the 1990s. There was always a small number of people who just wanted to throw a tantrum about everything, or they just wanted to "internet argue" with whoever was dumb enough to keep hurling insults back and forth with them.

smithtm · 04-23-2022, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubeBaker

I have been an OOTP customer since 2013. Prior to that I was playing Diamond Mind Baseball for almost twenty years. I briefly dabbled in playing Strat-O-Matic Baseball's computer game which was fun as was Diamond Mind, but they were mostly made for replaying seasons. What I wanted to do was play seasons. Be the manager. Be the GM. And, finally, there was a computer game on the market which provided that: Out of the Park Baseball.

In the last 9 years, I have watched this game grow from a cult status to mainstream status. I watched the OOTP YouTube channel grow from a handful of basic tutorial videos to daily and weekly streaming of franchises, tutorials, and a partnership with Major League Baseball. You know you have officially made it when your baseball game is used on MLB Network as a tool for analyzing and predicting a season.

This community has also grown in the last nine years, not just here, but on platforms such as Discord, Podcasts, and Twitch where thousands, if not millions, of devoted gamers are participating in discussions and often help one another with basic strategy questions or troubleshooting. As someone who works frequently with IT, I am truly amazed at how quickly the OOTP team responds to bugs, crashes, and errors. I sincerely envy the quick turnaround time and can personally attest to how this team frequently goes above and beyond delivering world-class service to its customers.

However, it occurs to me that perusing the forums here in the past week, not to mention recent months, some of you do not share the same sentiments as I do. Let me just say that I do not think criticism is a bad thing. OOTP may have given us Perfect Team, but it is far from a perfect game. Yet I think the team is fully aware of that which is why they constantly strive year-in and year-out to make improvements on the game to get it as close to perfection as possible, fully realizing they will likely never reach total perfection. And I'm sure Markus and his team welcome constructive criticism as it will help them learn and reevaluate what's working and what's not working with regards to OOTP, FHM, etc.

Criticism is one thing; toxicity is another. I am disappointed and disheartened to read so many negative comments and personal attacks on the OOTP team and its community by some on these forums. It makes sense that you're frustrated with the delay of Perfect Team. I get it. It does not make sense that you take out your frustrations on good people, most of whom you do not know, who are dong the best they can to work on getting issues resolved or willing to help other members of the community. This is something I have witnessed on Discord, Twitch, and YouTube as well and I personally am sick of it.

Perfect Team will soon be here before we know it, and I'll miss Kris running the operation, but I'm rooting for Dishnet and confident he's going to do a fine job once everything gets up and running. I know it's difficult in these times to exercise patience, but there are far worse problems going on in this country and in this world right now than the delay of a video game or a feature within it. We have OOTP23 and I am grateful for that. I look forward to playing Perfect Team soon, but in the meantime I'm going to enjoy the hell out of running my franchise and testing out all of the new features.

To the OOTP Team, I would like to leave you with this that a friend of mine once told me, "Never let the negativity get to you. There are gonna be a lot of people you have to plow through, but as long you believe in yourself, that's all that matters." Thank you for listening.

Thank you for saying this. I don't think I could agree with you anymore and I appreciate that you voiced this.

RoryN · 04-23-2022, 06:26 PM

I've been around OOTP since OOTP4; not as long as some but longer than most, I'd guess. I've seen the game and community evolve (and occasionally devolve) through that time. The one constant has been the OOTP team taking in all the criticisms and suggestions and working with those ideas to try and put forth a better game.

Not a "perfect" game; a better game. I don't think any game has ever been released without some bugs or glitches. And with technology advancing, I think it becomes more difficult to release a fairly clean game. Markus and crew have done a stellar job, in my opinion, of releasing playable versions of OOTP and then working to squash as many bugs as possible.

But in today's world, I guess there are a large number of people who can't seem to wait patiently for things to get done correctly. I'm guessing those people, especially when relating to computer/video games, have zero knowledge on what goes into making a playable game. Hell, we used to code old-school on the C-64 using prewritten codes and it took us days to get things done so they worked correctly. The old saying "Good things come to those who wait" has all but been forgotten and replaced with "I want it all and I want it now" (apologies to Queen).

There's been a lot of back-and-forth about whether the game is an "offline simulation," an "online simulation," or "Perfect Team." Guess what? It's all three, even though some of us ignore one or two of those aspects. It's not about making the best game for just one faction; it's about making a game that suits all factions and making it as good as possible. I think Markus and company have shown that this is the basis of why they continue creating new versions of the game for baseball simulation fans world wide.

Socali · 04-23-2022, 06:56 PM

Perfect Team has been a cash cow for OOTP. I think it is safe to say no disappointed, angry, complainant as we have seen expressed wants PT successfully working more than OOTP does. No doubt they will do better in the future because of this but there inevitably is always something. Life happens.

We have much bigger problems in this world than a game module not working. Perspective; you gain more of it as you get older, hopefully.

markprior22 · 04-23-2022, 06:59 PM

Well said Rube

24Rocks · 04-23-2022, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubeBaker

I have been an OOTP customer since 2013. Prior to that I was playing Diamond Mind Baseball for almost twenty years. I briefly dabbled in playing Strat-O-Matic Baseball's computer game which was fun as was Diamond Mind, but they were mostly made for replaying seasons. What I wanted to do was play seasons. Be the manager. Be the GM. And, finally, there was a computer game on the market which provided that: Out of the Park Baseball.

In the last 9 years, I have watched this game grow from a cult status to mainstream status. I watched the OOTP YouTube channel grow from a handful of basic tutorial videos to daily and weekly streaming of franchises, tutorials, and a partnership with Major League Baseball. You know you have officially made it when your baseball game is used on MLB Network as a tool for analyzing and predicting a season.

This community has also grown in the last nine years, not just here, but on platforms such as Discord, Podcasts, and Twitch where thousands, if not millions, of devoted gamers are participating in discussions and often help one another with basic strategy questions or troubleshooting. As someone who works frequently with IT, I am truly amazed at how quickly the OOTP team responds to bugs, crashes, and errors. I sincerely envy the quick turnaround time and can personally attest to how this team frequently goes above and beyond delivering world-class service to its customers.

However, it occurs to me that perusing the forums here in the past week, not to mention recent months, some of you do not share the same sentiments as I do. Let me just say that I do not think criticism is a bad thing. OOTP may have given us Perfect Team, but it is far from a perfect game. Yet I think the team is fully aware of that which is why they constantly strive year-in and year-out to make improvements on the game to get it as close to perfection as possible, fully realizing they will likely never reach total perfection. And I'm sure Markus and his team welcome constructive criticism as it will help them learn and reevaluate what's working and what's not working with regards to OOTP, FHM, etc.

Criticism is one thing; toxicity is another. I am disappointed and disheartened to read so many negative comments and personal attacks on the OOTP team and its community by some on these forums. It makes sense that you're frustrated with the delay of Perfect Team. I get it. It does not make sense that you take out your frustrations on good people, most of whom you do not know, who are dong the best they can to work on getting issues resolved or willing to help other members of the community. This is something I have witnessed on Discord, Twitch, and YouTube as well and I personally am sick of it.

Perfect Team will soon be here before we know it, and I'll miss Kris running the operation, but I'm rooting for Dishnet and confident he's going to do a fine job once everything gets up and running. I know it's difficult in these times to exercise patience, but there are far worse problems going on in this country and in this world right now than the delay of a video game or a feature within it. We have OOTP23 and I am grateful for that. I look forward to playing Perfect Team soon, but in the meantime I'm going to enjoy the hell out of running my franchise and testing out all of the new features.

To the OOTP Team, I would like to leave you with this that a friend of mine once told me, "Never let the negativity get to you. There are gonna be a lot of people you have to plow through, but as long you believe in yourself, that's all that matters." Thank you for listening.

Thank you so much for this post, as kid in Elementary school when I first started playing this game I wasn't active in this community but as I grew up I became more active and the best part is how helpful and engaging this community and the OOTP dev team was to questions and criticism with even the games Head Marcus responding to so many posts.

Me and my Dad buy this game every year even tho we only run long running Fictional universes because of all the work that goes in to this game & because they want to give us the best game possible they are always reading checking the forum and the hate and negativity isn't going to help PT get ready faster.

ignats75 · 04-23-2022, 07:36 PM

Very well said

Pelican · 04-23-2022, 09:37 PM

Agree 100% with RubeBaker. Eloquently put. We can disagree and argue without flaming out.

Pineywoods OOTPer · 04-23-2022, 09:52 PM

I agree 1000% with Rube and the sentiment here.

RchW · 04-23-2022, 10:15 PM

Rube, thanks for saying exactly what I wanted to but couldn’t because I’d have gotten myself banned.

5-4-3 · 04-24-2022, 01:28 AM

They can take as long as they want with Perfect Team as far as I’m concerned. You couldn’t pay me to play it. But to each his own.

04-23-2022, 12:33 PM	#1
RubeBaker All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: USA Posts: 642	The OOTP Clubhouse Atmosphere I have been an OOTP customer since 2013. Prior to that I was playing Diamond Mind Baseball for almost twenty years. I briefly dabbled in playing Strat-O-Matic Baseball's computer game which was fun as was Diamond Mind, but they were mostly made for replaying seasons. What I wanted to do was play seasons. Be the manager. Be the GM. And, finally, there was a computer game on the market which provided that: Out of the Park Baseball. In the last 9 years, I have watched this game grow from a cult status to mainstream status. I watched the OOTP YouTube channel grow from a handful of basic tutorial videos to daily and weekly streaming of franchises, tutorials, and a partnership with Major League Baseball. You know you have officially made it when your baseball game is used on MLB Network as a tool for analyzing and predicting a season. This community has also grown in the last nine years, not just here, but on platforms such as Discord, Podcasts, and Twitch where thousands, if not millions, of devoted gamers are participating in discussions and often help one another with basic strategy questions or troubleshooting. As someone who works frequently with IT, I am truly amazed at how quickly the OOTP team responds to bugs, crashes, and errors. I sincerely envy the quick turnaround time and can personally attest to how this team frequently goes above and beyond delivering world-class service to its customers. However, it occurs to me that perusing the forums here in the past week, not to mention recent months, some of you do not share the same sentiments as I do. Let me just say that I do not think criticism is a bad thing. OOTP may have given us Perfect Team, but it is far from a perfect game. Yet I think the team is fully aware of that which is why they constantly strive year-in and year-out to make improvements on the game to get it as close to perfection as possible, fully realizing they will likely never reach total perfection. And I'm sure Markus and his team welcome constructive criticism as it will help them learn and reevaluate what's working and what's not working with regards to OOTP, FHM, etc. Criticism is one thing; toxicity is another. I am disappointed and disheartened to read so many negative comments and personal attacks on the OOTP team and its community by some on these forums. It makes sense that you're frustrated with the delay of Perfect Team. I get it. It does not make sense that you take out your frustrations on good people, most of whom you do not know, who are dong the best they can to work on getting issues resolved or willing to help other members of the community. This is something I have witnessed on Discord, Twitch, and YouTube as well and I personally am sick of it. Perfect Team will soon be here before we know it, and I'll miss Kris running the operation, but I'm rooting for Dishnet and confident he's going to do a fine job once everything gets up and running. I know it's difficult in these times to exercise patience, but there are far worse problems going on in this country and in this world right now than the delay of a video game or a feature within it. We have OOTP23 and I am grateful for that. I look forward to playing Perfect Team soon, but in the meantime I'm going to enjoy the hell out of running my franchise and testing out all of the new features. To the OOTP Team, I would like to leave you with this that a friend of mine once told me, "Never let the negativity get to you. There are gonna be a lot of people you have to plow through, but as long you believe in yourself, that's all that matters." Thank you for listening. Last edited by RubeBaker; 04-23-2022 at 12:35 PM.

04-23-2022, 12:42 PM	#2
BirdWatcher Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 4,263	Hear, hear! __________________ The Denver Brewers of the W.P. Kinsella League-- The fun starts here(1965-1971: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=289570 And continues here (1972-1976): https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=300500 On we go (1977- 1979): https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=314601 For ongoing and more random updates on the WPK:https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=325147, https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=330717

04-23-2022, 12:56 PM	#3
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 4,563	Been here since 6.5. Agree with you 100%, and you said it well. __________________ "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me." Thanos

04-23-2022, 01:00 PM	#4
Germaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Frankenthal, Germany Posts: 3,056	I absolutely agree. Sh** happens, but what went on here over the past 24 hours was way beyond my imagination __________________ I'm going to have to meet my Maker some day. And if He asks me why I didn't let this boy play, and I say it's because he's black, that might not be a satisfactory answer. Happy Chandler, 1947

04-23-2022, 01:11 PM	#5
stevem810 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sarasota Posts: 1,937	OOTP has brought much joy over the years. I enjoy it as much as ever. Regarding thoughtless and hurtful comments I have found it best to not respond to them. __________________ Julien Henri Version 21 https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...22#post4626122 Michigan Town Ball https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...28#post4630528

04-23-2022, 01:52 PM	#6
Nero Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 206	Since '99..before the forums got merged over here. OOTP has been an annual rite of spring for me. It's always, always scratched an itch for me, and I certainly appreciate how the game as evolved, for a "simulation" style game, there isn't anything better for my mind. I don't spend a ton of time on the forums, but they were always a place to go for some help, and served as a great reference. It was cool to occasionally sit and read about the seasons, and worlds many of you had developed. Like the OP said, these days I see more griping, but I attribute it to the fact that OOTP is more popular. Way back when, it was the same people posting year after year, and the cult following was because we loved the game. These days, anyone who picks up the game is instantly an "expert". Hey, spend your money, you've got every right to speak your mind, but the quality of opinion, and the value should be properly evaluated. Baseball is a long season, with a 162 regular season games, PT may have had a rough start, or non-start, but I've got ever reason to believe in the team, and that they'll get it going shortly. Treading water and going .500 or staying just barely in contention works, its' just a few games in. Rest assured well before the weather gets hot, OOTP's bats will get hot, the arms will turn in consistent top appearances, and as usual OOTP will make it to October in 1st place. The world isn't ending. Not today at least....

04-23-2022, 01:54 PM	#7
Scipio Africanus Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 374	Glad it's not just me who thinks the forum has gotten a lot more hostile lately. I think people should be able to post their complaints and allow for some honest, non-ad hominem responses, but the threads are being left open waaaayyy too long when nothing constructive is being added. I wish the mods would take a heavier hand, not with banning and such, just with locking threads.

04-23-2022, 04:10 PM	#10
Scipio Africanus Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 374	I'm tempted to blame social media. But then I remember the USENET forums from the 1990s. There was always a small number of people who just wanted to throw a tantrum about everything, or they just wanted to "internet argue" with whoever was dumb enough to keep hurling insults back and forth with them.

04-23-2022, 06:26 PM	#12
RoryN Minors (Single A) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Baker City, OR Posts: 80	I've been around OOTP since OOTP4; not as long as some but longer than most, I'd guess. I've seen the game and community evolve (and occasionally devolve) through that time. The one constant has been the OOTP team taking in all the criticisms and suggestions and working with those ideas to try and put forth a better game. Not a "perfect" game; a better game. I don't think any game has ever been released without some bugs or glitches. And with technology advancing, I think it becomes more difficult to release a fairly clean game. Markus and crew have done a stellar job, in my opinion, of releasing playable versions of OOTP and then working to squash as many bugs as possible. But in today's world, I guess there are a large number of people who can't seem to wait patiently for things to get done correctly. I'm guessing those people, especially when relating to computer/video games, have zero knowledge on what goes into making a playable game. Hell, we used to code old-school on the C-64 using prewritten codes and it took us days to get things done so they worked correctly. The old saying "Good things come to those who wait" has all but been forgotten and replaced with "I want it all and I want it now" (apologies to Queen). There's been a lot of back-and-forth about whether the game is an "offline simulation," an "online simulation," or "Perfect Team." Guess what? It's all three, even though some of us ignore one or two of those aspects. It's not about making the best game for just one faction; it's about making a game that suits all factions and making it as good as possible. I think Markus and company have shown that this is the basis of why they continue creating new versions of the game for baseball simulation fans world wide.

04-23-2022, 06:56 PM	#13
Socali Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 197	Perfect Team has been a cash cow for OOTP. I think it is safe to say no disappointed, angry, complainant as we have seen expressed wants PT successfully working more than OOTP does. No doubt they will do better in the future because of this but there inevitably is always something. Life happens. We have much bigger problems in this world than a game module not working. Perspective; you gain more of it as you get older, hopefully.

04-23-2022, 06:59 PM	#14
markprior22 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: springfield, illinois Posts: 1,233	Well said Rube

04-23-2022, 07:36 PM	#16
ignats75 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Lakewood, OH Posts: 284	Very well said __________________

04-23-2022, 09:37 PM	#17
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 2,848	Agree 100% with RubeBaker. Eloquently put. We can disagree and argue without flaming out.

04-23-2022, 09:52 PM	#18
Pineywoods OOTPer All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: White Oak, Texas Posts: 721	I agree 1000% with Rube and the sentiment here. __________________ The Pineywoods OOTPer Senior Office Manager, 13th Circle of Heck.

04-23-2022, 10:15 PM	#19
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Rube, thanks for saying exactly what I wanted to but couldn’t because I’d have gotten myself banned. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

04-24-2022, 01:28 AM	#20
5-4-3 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 143	They can take as long as they want with Perfect Team as far as I’m concerned. You couldn’t pay me to play it. But to each his own.