Dramatic Offensive Drop After Conversion from OOTP 20 to 22 - Online League

ajkeence99 · 01-11-2022, 09:19 AM

Good Morning. I am a member of a league, Sim Baseball League (SIMBL).

http://www.simbaseballleague.com/gam..._100_home.html

We only upgrade to the newest version of OOTP every other version. The league encountered some issues many years ago, before I joined, and is on the 2nd file that has been running since the 2019 season which you will see if you look at the league reports from the link above. We are currently in the 2057 playoffs so this file has been running for approximately 38 seasons with no issues.

Following the latest update from OOTP 20 to OOTP 22, we have seen some very dramatic changes in offensive numbers throughout the league. No settings were changed during the upgrade. I compiled some basic stats to exhibit these differences.

2055
.256/.323/.409/.732
RC/27 4.71
R/G 4.3
Runs 698
2B 232
3B 29
HR 186
SB 204
CS 48
ERA 4.04
WHIP 1.31
BABIP .296
2056
.227/.300/.371/.671
RC/27 3.82
R/G 3.75
Runs 604
2B 206
3B 24
HR 174
SB 265
CS 75
ERA 3.39
WHIP 1.18
BABIP .262
2057
.223/.292/.365/.658
R/G 3.55
Runs 579
2B 200
3B 24
HR 175
SB 250
CS 70
ERA 3.26
WHIP 1.14
BABIP .253

Some of the information is rough numbers as I didn't do the math on the slash line and simply averaged the average from each of the two leagues. The numbers are team averages per league. 2055 was our last year in OOTP 20 and we are now completing our second season in OOTP 22 and offense declined even more. We've seen a lot of random pitching records being broken and the leaderboards in many pitching stats being filled up with new names over the past 2 seasons.

One of the more alarming changes I see is the change in BABIP. Historically, it seemed to fall in the .290-.298 range but has been .262 and .253 the last two seasons. Runs per game has dropped nearly a full run from 4.71 to 3.75 to 3.55. Stolen base attempts are up significantly with the success rate dropping 3% from 81% to 78%. WHIP went from 1.31 to 1.18 to 1.14 over the sample size.

We are looking to do a pause after the playoffs to explore fixing this issue but I'm posting here in hopes that someone else has encountered this problem and can point us in the right direction. Thanks for reading this and I'm willing to answer any questions or get any info one may require. I am not the commish but am posting here at his direction.

v/r
Anthony Keence
ajkeence99@gmail.com

ajkeence99 · 01-12-2022, 12:51 PM

I was really hopeful that someone had encountered this issue or at least had an idea as to what might have caused it. Per the commish, nothing was changed during the upgrade. The league has been around for 15 years and the every other version upgrade has been done multiple times so it shouldn't be a case of not knowing how to do it and messing something up.

Given what I looked through, the most glaring thing is the huge change in BABIP. Going from falling in the .290-.298 range nearly every season to dropping immediately to the .250-.260 range is huge, I think. I just don't know what might cause that.

Bumstead · 01-13-2022, 09:31 AM

I am also in the league. It's a frustrating result having upgraded from version 20 to version 22 and now I am playing multiple guys daily that are hitting .180-.200 (and I made the League Championship Series). We have 24 GMs that buy the new version mostly every year, so I find it a bit disappointing that there has been no response from OOTP in regards to this issue. Based on talking with other humans that are in other leagues, this isn't a unique occurrence. Any help would be appreciated.

Sweed · 01-13-2022, 09:40 AM

If you've been playing for years perhaps you've already done all of the following? Figured I'd throw it out just in case you have not.

Did you check the League Totals and League Total Modifiers after import?
Normally all of this can be fixed by making sure they are what you want and hitting "autocalc" before the season starts. Autocalc is not available after the first game is played.

Also any chance the league babip setting changed during import? IOW LT and LTM may be right but the babip is not?

Could be, with it being a new version, some under the hood changes made a difference when working with your player file? In any case checking what I listed would be where I would start. If that doesn't fix it then, I'm afraid it's all the advice I've got. In that case I'd file a support ticket and maybe you'll get a faster response?

Bumstead · 01-13-2022, 09:53 AM

Thank you Sir. Can I check that without having the ability to sim the league? Either way, I will confirm that the Commish has checked those settings.

GMGOD · 01-13-2022, 01:21 PM

OOTP Can we please get a ticket started on this?

Thank you.

Matt Arnold · 01-13-2022, 03:16 PM

First thing to check with this are the modifiers. Generally speaking when the league values deviate that much, I would recommend getting into the pre-season or spring training, taking a screenshot of the modifiers page, and then hitting the auto-calc button and seeing what everything changes to.

As every version there are changes to the game engine, especially if you don't have auto-calc enabled, sometimes if the league talent levels swing in unexpected directions that can have negative consequences to league values.

GMGOD · 01-24-2022, 12:03 AM

Thanks Matt.

I auto calced at the start of the next preseason and SIMmed a full season ahead and as I expected it was a disaster. Now offense is too high and all league offensive records in a 40-year file were set.

We really need OOTP help as 15 real-life years customers are beyond frustrated. All we are asking as loyal customers is to save our file as it was and realistic before the conversion bug has ruined it and our recreation.

Please reach out to me privately via email if anyone cares and can help.

Thanks Matt and thanks guys.

Christian Gardes · 01-24-2022, 01:50 PM

Hi! Sending us your league save will help us determine how to best adjust your settings to get back to the offense level you expect. I sent a PM with instructions on how to send us the save.

biekert · 02-03-2022, 09:18 PM

Can I ask what happened on this issue?? Was a solution reached?

I write because our online league also migrated from OOTP 20 to 22, and the offensive decline over the last two years of game time has been absolutely catastrophic - makes the dead ball era seem like an Arena football league (e.g., almost half the teams hitting under 200 and slugging at or under 300).

Finding this thread gave me (some) hope that the problem can be solved. Would really appreciate any input you can provide.

biekert · 02-07-2022, 02:28 PM

Would very much appreciate some feedback on this issue.

Our league consists of 16 OOTP owners who purchase new installments every 2 versions, so definitely think a response would be in accordance with best business practices. I am becoming quite demoralized and am contemplating ceasing participation in the league/game.

Alex Murray · 02-07-2022, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biekert

Would very much appreciate some feedback on this issue.

The modifier changes we sent over should have resolved that first league's issues. I do believe progress was made regarding their stats.

Can you DM me info regarding your league biekert? I would be happy to look into that one and see if can do the same thing with the modifier totals and rates for your league. If you are not the commissioner of that online league I will need to be put in touch with them to get files and get that squared away.

You can DM me here on the forums to get that started.

Thanks
Alex

84CubsFan · 02-15-2022, 10:40 AM

Alex,
Just following up on this and bumping to the top -- DM'd you as well.
Thanks for your help!

84CubsFan · 02-22-2022, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Murray

The modifier changes we sent over should have resolved that first league's issues. I do believe progress was made regarding their stats.

Can you DM me info regarding your league biekert? I would be happy to look into that one and see if can do the same thing with the modifier totals and rates for your league. If you are not the commissioner of that online league I will need to be put in touch with them to get files and get that squared away.

You can DM me here on the forums to get that started.

Thanks
Alex

Alex, any chance I could get that further help with this?

biekert · 02-25-2022, 10:48 PM

OK, 84CubsFan (our league commissioner) is due a response; it has been several weeks.

Our league definitely needs help on leaving the "worse than dead ball era", and I am becoming a bit aggrieved at the lack of support shown to 16 players who buy a new version of this game every 2 years.

84CubsFan · 03-03-2022, 04:28 PM

That's my bad -- Alex responded on 2-22. I just didn't see the response until today. Thanks, Alex, for your help.

Alex Murray · 03-08-2022, 05:07 PM

Yeah, I'm going to just direct users to email me directly instead of using the forum DM system lol. Playing phone tag via forums isn't the fastest way. We are looking at some minor tweaks to the league totals for this league to try and counter the deadball issue the offense is running through.

We can continue to monitor it as well in case we need more or less adjustments.

Thanks
Alex

01-11-2022, 09:19 AM	#1
ajkeence99 Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9	Dramatic Offensive Drop After Conversion from OOTP 20 to 22 - Online League Good Morning. I am a member of a league, Sim Baseball League (SIMBL). http://www.simbaseballleague.com/gam..._100_home.html We only upgrade to the newest version of OOTP every other version. The league encountered some issues many years ago, before I joined, and is on the 2nd file that has been running since the 2019 season which you will see if you look at the league reports from the link above. We are currently in the 2057 playoffs so this file has been running for approximately 38 seasons with no issues. Following the latest update from OOTP 20 to OOTP 22, we have seen some very dramatic changes in offensive numbers throughout the league. No settings were changed during the upgrade. I compiled some basic stats to exhibit these differences. 2055 .256/.323/.409/.732 RC/27 4.71 R/G 4.3 Runs 698 2B 232 3B 29 HR 186 SB 204 CS 48 ERA 4.04 WHIP 1.31 BABIP .296 2056 .227/.300/.371/.671 RC/27 3.82 R/G 3.75 Runs 604 2B 206 3B 24 HR 174 SB 265 CS 75 ERA 3.39 WHIP 1.18 BABIP .262 2057 .223/.292/.365/.658 R/G 3.55 Runs 579 2B 200 3B 24 HR 175 SB 250 CS 70 ERA 3.26 WHIP 1.14 BABIP .253 Some of the information is rough numbers as I didn't do the math on the slash line and simply averaged the average from each of the two leagues. The numbers are team averages per league. 2055 was our last year in OOTP 20 and we are now completing our second season in OOTP 22 and offense declined even more. We've seen a lot of random pitching records being broken and the leaderboards in many pitching stats being filled up with new names over the past 2 seasons. One of the more alarming changes I see is the change in BABIP. Historically, it seemed to fall in the .290-.298 range but has been .262 and .253 the last two seasons. Runs per game has dropped nearly a full run from 4.71 to 3.75 to 3.55. Stolen base attempts are up significantly with the success rate dropping 3% from 81% to 78%. WHIP went from 1.31 to 1.18 to 1.14 over the sample size. We are looking to do a pause after the playoffs to explore fixing this issue but I'm posting here in hopes that someone else has encountered this problem and can point us in the right direction. Thanks for reading this and I'm willing to answer any questions or get any info one may require. I am not the commish but am posting here at his direction. v/r Anthony Keence ajkeence99@gmail.com

01-13-2022, 09:40 AM	#4
Sweed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 6,643	If you've been playing for years perhaps you've already done all of the following? Figured I'd throw it out just in case you have not. Did you check the League Totals and League Total Modifiers after import? Normally all of this can be fixed by making sure they are what you want and hitting "autocalc" before the season starts. Autocalc is not available after the first game is played. Also any chance the league babip setting changed during import? IOW LT and LTM may be right but the babip is not? Could be, with it being a new version, some under the hood changes made a difference when working with your player file? In any case checking what I listed would be where I would start. If that doesn't fix it then, I'm afraid it's all the advice I've got. In that case I'd file a support ticket and maybe you'll get a faster response? Attached Images

01-13-2022, 01:21 PM	#6
GMGOD Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 218 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	OOTP Can we please get a ticket started on this? Thank you. __________________ The SIMBL "An Online League Specifically FOR the GM and BY the GM." www.simbaseballleague.com A Premier Online League Always Seeking Quality Owners- Join The SIMBL!

01-24-2022, 12:03 AM	#8
GMGOD Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 218 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Thanks Matt. I auto calced at the start of the next preseason and SIMmed a full season ahead and as I expected it was a disaster. Now offense is too high and all league offensive records in a 40-year file were set. We really need OOTP help as 15 real-life years customers are beyond frustrated. All we are asking as loyal customers is to save our file as it was and realistic before the conversion bug has ruined it and our recreation. Please reach out to me privately via email if anyone cares and can help. Thanks Matt and thanks guys. __________________ The SIMBL "An Online League Specifically FOR the GM and BY the GM." www.simbaseballleague.com A Premier Online League Always Seeking Quality Owners- Join The SIMBL! Last edited by GMGOD; 01-24-2022 at 12:10 AM.

02-07-2022, 02:28 PM	#11
biekert Bat Boy Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 18	Bueller? Would very much appreciate some feedback on this issue. Our league consists of 16 OOTP owners who purchase new installments every 2 versions, so definitely think a response would be in accordance with best business practices. I am becoming quite demoralized and am contemplating ceasing participation in the league/game.

01-12-2022, 12:51 PM	#2
ajkeence99 Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9	I was really hopeful that someone had encountered this issue or at least had an idea as to what might have caused it. Per the commish, nothing was changed during the upgrade. The league has been around for 15 years and the every other version upgrade has been done multiple times so it shouldn't be a case of not knowing how to do it and messing something up. Given what I looked through, the most glaring thing is the huge change in BABIP. Going from falling in the .290-.298 range nearly every season to dropping immediately to the .250-.260 range is huge, I think. I just don't know what might cause that.

01-13-2022, 09:31 AM	#3
Bumstead Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 117	I am also in the league. It's a frustrating result having upgraded from version 20 to version 22 and now I am playing multiple guys daily that are hitting .180-.200 (and I made the League Championship Series). We have 24 GMs that buy the new version mostly every year, so I find it a bit disappointing that there has been no response from OOTP in regards to this issue. Based on talking with other humans that are in other leagues, this isn't a unique occurrence. Any help would be appreciated.

01-13-2022, 09:53 AM	#5
Bumstead Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 117	Thank you Sir. Can I check that without having the ability to sim the league? Either way, I will confirm that the Commish has checked those settings.

01-13-2022, 03:16 PM	#7
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,797	First thing to check with this are the modifiers. Generally speaking when the league values deviate that much, I would recommend getting into the pre-season or spring training, taking a screenshot of the modifiers page, and then hitting the auto-calc button and seeing what everything changes to. As every version there are changes to the game engine, especially if you don't have auto-calc enabled, sometimes if the league talent levels swing in unexpected directions that can have negative consequences to league values.

01-24-2022, 01:50 PM	#9
Christian Gardes OOTP Developments Tech Support Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 2	Hi! Sending us your league save will help us determine how to best adjust your settings to get back to the offense level you expect. I sent a PM with instructions on how to send us the save.

02-03-2022, 09:18 PM	#10
biekert Bat Boy Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 18	Can I ask what happened on this issue?? Was a solution reached? I write because our online league also migrated from OOTP 20 to 22, and the offensive decline over the last two years of game time has been absolutely catastrophic - makes the dead ball era seem like an Arena football league (e.g., almost half the teams hitting under 200 and slugging at or under 300). Finding this thread gave me (some) hope that the problem can be solved. Would really appreciate any input you can provide.

02-15-2022, 10:40 AM	#13
84CubsFan Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 376	Alex, Just following up on this and bumping to the top -- DM'd you as well. Thanks for your help!

02-25-2022, 10:48 PM	#15
biekert Bat Boy Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 18	OK, 84CubsFan (our league commissioner) is due a response; it has been several weeks. Our league definitely needs help on leaving the "worse than dead ball era", and I am becoming a bit aggrieved at the lack of support shown to 16 players who buy a new version of this game every 2 years.

03-03-2022, 04:28 PM	#16
84CubsFan Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 376	That's my bad -- Alex responded on 2-22. I just didn't see the response until today. Thanks, Alex, for your help.

03-08-2022, 05:07 PM	#17
Alex Murray All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 500	Yeah, I'm going to just direct users to email me directly instead of using the forum DM system lol. Playing phone tag via forums isn't the fastest way. We are looking at some minor tweaks to the league totals for this league to try and counter the deadball issue the offense is running through. We can continue to monitor it as well in case we need more or less adjustments. Thanks Alex __________________