Player refuses to be demoted

catholic · 09-09-2021, 05:52 PM

I play identical to MLB with fictional players.

I trade for a MLB player with options(who has yet to be assigned) and then he refuses to be demoted to AAA or the minors. How do I know before I make the trade he will do this? What can I do when he refuses to be demoted?

omg_pwnasaurus · 09-09-2021, 06:22 PM

Usually they are denoted with a ^ IIRC in the roster view.

catholic · 09-09-2021, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omg_pwnasaurus

Usually they are denoted with a ^ IIRC in the roster view.

Got it, I see that now, thanks.

Brad K · 09-09-2021, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omg_pwnasaurus

Usually they are denoted with a ^ IIRC in the roster view.

That is for players who can't be demoted (out of options). He's talking about players who have options but have the right to refuse demotion.

OP, I don't know of a way to determine the player will refuse demotion before a trade and if there isn't that's the way it should be. How would the team trading for him find out? Is the team he's on going to go to him and say "We are thinking of trading you but the team we want to trade you to won't take you unless you agree to go to the minors. Will you do it?"

omg_pwnasaurus · 09-09-2021, 09:05 PM

Text for attachment

Brad K · 09-09-2021, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omg_pwnasaurus

Text for attachment

OK, cool, I referred to the wrong symbol. You're right about the meaning of that one.

Right to refuse doesn't mean they will and I think it's unrealistic to know in advance what a player will do.

lencombs · 09-10-2021, 01:39 AM

That was always such a headache I finally disabled the option to refuse minor league assignments in league settings a few versions ago and my life is happier now.

BBGiovanni · 09-10-2021, 08:06 AM

I just always assume a vet will refuse, then I'm mildly/pleasantly surprised when they agree. I just got Ryan Zimmerman to do it, maybe the most prominent guy I've done.

Your options are basically (1) trade him, my favorite, or (b) play him until he gets hurt and put him on the 60 day DL and rehab assignments. You may be able to swap bad contracts; if this is an SP, a desperate team might send you an overpaid OF that's more useful on your roster.

If you want to override this you can go into commissioner mode and edit the player on to a new team.

brotherblues · 09-10-2021, 10:18 AM

Compared to the NFLPA dealing with NFL owners... The MLBPA has really bent MLB owners over the negotiating table.

RchW · 09-10-2021, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brotherblues

Compared to the NFLPA dealing with NFL owners... The MLBPA has really bent MLB owners over the negotiating table.

On the contrary the MLBPA has been extraordinarily bad at tying drafted players to six years of MLB service time before FA while many players not subject to the draft can make big bucks before playing a game. One of the worst unions in sport.

brotherblues · 09-10-2021, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

On the contrary the MLBPA has been extraordinarily bad at tying drafted players to six years of MLB service time before FA while many players not subject to the draft can make big bucks before playing a game. One of the worst unions in sport.

True. I guess I was thinking more from the veteran player side of it, with MLB vets getting all kinds of protections and the ridiculous fully guaranteed contracts.

Rain King · 09-10-2021, 11:08 AM

I believe a player has to have 5 years of MLB service time to refuse a demotion. I don't think OOTP currently has that as a customizable option.

Ty Cobb · 09-11-2021, 09:29 PM

Players don't run my teams. Refuse demotion, get retired. I don't care who it is.

Brad K · 09-12-2021, 05:19 AM

I assume your GM is Harry Bennett?

PSUColonel · 12-21-2021, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain King

I believe a player has to have 5 years of MLB service time to refuse a demotion. I don't think OOTP currently has that as a customizable option.

Is this what it is in MLB? This probably should be customizable for future versions....especially with the new CBA looming...it's something which probably should be customizable/alterable.

Dave Stieb II · 12-21-2021, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

On the contrary the MLBPA has been extraordinarily bad at tying drafted players to six years of MLB service time before FA while many players not subject to the draft can make big bucks before playing a game. One of the worst unions in sport.

So true, since 1994.
For the last 27 years the players have been asleep at the switch during CBA negotiations.
But not now. They've woke from their slumber.
I think Scott Bore-ass has 3-4 clients on the negotiating team, including Mad Max Scherzer.
So, naturally, their proposal attempts to make up for all that lost time in one fell swoop....with additional goodies for time served.
Really extreme.
And that is why I am pessimistic and think this thing is going to drag into next season.
I really hope I'm wrong. But if you review the general terms of both proposals, they are not even talking the same language.

Pelican · 12-21-2021, 12:19 PM

I recall overriding the player's refusal by designating him for assignment for a few days, then either he relented or the passage of time allowed me to send him down to AAA. Or maybe, I also put him on waivers, and after no takers (big contract; aging veteran), he could be demoted. That's probably what happened. But, yeah, the symbols should appear next to the player's name, and correspond to the key at the bottom of the page. Ultimately you may be forced to simply release the player and eat the contract (looking at you, Chris Davis). Some of those guys turn up in the Atlantic League (my independent league of choice) playing out the string, for the sheer fun of it. The Hilton Head Loggerheads have a number of those guys.

PSUColonel · 12-21-2021, 04:16 PM

The symbols are there, yes, but what is the actual rule?....does anyone know? I know it pertains to a certain number of years (something like 5) but I am not sure of the exact number.

michael.oberegge · 12-22-2021, 09:04 AM

It's 5 years of major league service. That's when a player gets the right to refuse demotion. I thought the get communicated this in some way... Not sure how I know this otherwise, but I'm certain it's 5 years.

Note that it gives him the right to refuse; it doesnmean that he will. Some might accept, but there is no way to know until you try

Whether that is realistic, I don't know, but it's an important restriction for the game. You only have to pay Minor leaguers 15% of their salary, so if you could demote any one at any time, you could exploit it and mitigate a larger contract for someone who has declined... And no one in the world would willingly take that pay cut.

(Not sure if the 15% applies to free agent contracts... Rookie contracts for sure, and maybe arb contracts.)

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Sweed · 12-22-2021, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael.oberegge

It's 5 years of major league service. That's when a player gets the right to refuse demotion. I thought the get communicated this in some way... Not sure how I know this otherwise, but I'm certain it's 5 years.

Note that it gives him the right to refuse; it doesnmean that he will. Some might accept, but there is no way to know until you try

Whether that is realistic, I don't know, but it's an important restriction for the game. You only have to pay Minor leaguers 15% of their salary, so if you could demote any one at any time, you could exploit it and mitigate a larger contract for someone who has declined... And no one in the world would willingly take that pay cut.

(Not sure if the 15% applies to free agent contracts... Rookie contracts for sure, and maybe arb contracts.)

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

The 15% rule (actually 16.5% in OOTP) is only for min-sal contracts. All others, IRL and OOTP, including arb contracts are guaranteed money in the collective bargaining agreement.

I did say IRL but with the real life collective bargaining agreement I can't say for sure there isn't some obscure language in it that makes some exceptions to the rule. Also there are a few options, consequences for players that do or don't refuse demotion.

I think players with 5 years but min-sal still get full MLB pay if they accept demotion. (I don't think OOTP does this?) Maybe some type of 2 way contract or part of the MLBPA-MLB bargaining agreement? Though I don't honestly know if these 5 yr min-sal players exist? If so I have to think there can't be very many?

I think 5 yr players have the following or similar options?

A player can refuse demotion, immediately void the contract, and become a FA. He leaves guaranteed money on the table but has a chance to stay in the show.
If nobody signs him he's out a paycheck and out of baseball.

He can refuse demotion, NOT void the contract, and force the team to release him and pay full value or keep him up. Of course if team releases and pay he's out of the game but has his money and is a FA. The "waiver DFA" route.

He accepts demotion, keeps his MLB pay, is still a part of the team, and allows the possibility of being recalled as\when needed.

09-09-2021, 05:52 PM	#1
catholic Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 28	Player refuses to be demoted I play identical to MLB with fictional players. I trade for a MLB player with options(who has yet to be assigned) and then he refuses to be demoted to AAA or the minors. How do I know before I make the trade he will do this? What can I do when he refuses to be demoted? Last edited by catholic; 09-09-2021 at 05:59 PM.

09-09-2021, 09:05 PM	#5
omg_pwnasaurus Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 415	Text for attachment Attached Images

09-10-2021, 01:39 AM	#7
lencombs All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Eureka, Ca Posts: 535	That was always such a headache I finally disabled the option to refuse minor league assignments in league settings a few versions ago and my life is happier now. __________________ "A passion for statistics is the earmark of a literate people." - Paul Fisher "Baseball isn't statistics. Baseball is (Joe) DiMaggio rounding second." - Jimmy Cannon

09-10-2021, 08:06 AM	#8
BBGiovanni All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Republic of California Posts: 1,910	I just always assume a vet will refuse, then I'm mildly/pleasantly surprised when they agree. I just got Ryan Zimmerman to do it, maybe the most prominent guy I've done. Your options are basically (1) trade him, my favorite, or (b) play him until he gets hurt and put him on the 60 day DL and rehab assignments. You may be able to swap bad contracts; if this is an SP, a desperate team might send you an overpaid OF that's more useful on your roster. If you want to override this you can go into commissioner mode and edit the player on to a new team. __________________ Let's Go (San Jose) Giants, Let's Go Mets! Current Project: WBAT/AABBA: Organized Base Ball And the "New Normal" World Baseball Aid Tournament 2023 trophy round underway!

09-11-2021, 09:29 PM	#13
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 4,617	Players don't run my teams. Refuse demotion, get retired. I don't care who it is. __________________ "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me." Thanos

09-09-2021, 06:22 PM	#2
omg_pwnasaurus Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 415	Usually they are denoted with a ^ IIRC in the roster view.

09-10-2021, 10:18 AM	#9
brotherblues All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 658	Compared to the NFLPA dealing with NFL owners... The MLBPA has really bent MLB owners over the negotiating table.

09-10-2021, 11:08 AM	#12
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,317	I believe a player has to have 5 years of MLB service time to refuse a demotion. I don't think OOTP currently has that as a customizable option.

09-12-2021, 05:19 AM	#14
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	I assume your GM is Harry Bennett?

12-21-2021, 12:19 PM	#17
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 3,161	Dfa I recall overriding the player's refusal by designating him for assignment for a few days, then either he relented or the passage of time allowed me to send him down to AAA. Or maybe, I also put him on waivers, and after no takers (big contract; aging veteran), he could be demoted. That's probably what happened. But, yeah, the symbols should appear next to the player's name, and correspond to the key at the bottom of the page. Ultimately you may be forced to simply release the player and eat the contract (looking at you, Chris Davis). Some of those guys turn up in the Atlantic League (my independent league of choice) playing out the string, for the sheer fun of it. The Hilton Head Loggerheads have a number of those guys.

12-21-2021, 04:16 PM	#18
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,134	The symbols are there, yes, but what is the actual rule?....does anyone know? I know it pertains to a certain number of years (something like 5) but I am not sure of the exact number.

12-22-2021, 09:04 AM	#19
michael.oberegge Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 7	It's 5 years of major league service. That's when a player gets the right to refuse demotion. I thought the get communicated this in some way... Not sure how I know this otherwise, but I'm certain it's 5 years. Note that it gives him the right to refuse; it doesnmean that he will. Some might accept, but there is no way to know until you try Whether that is realistic, I don't know, but it's an important restriction for the game. You only have to pay Minor leaguers 15% of their salary, so if you could demote any one at any time, you could exploit it and mitigate a larger contract for someone who has declined... And no one in the world would willingly take that pay cut. (Not sure if the 15% applies to free agent contracts... Rookie contracts for sure, and maybe arb contracts.) Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk