Waivers still a problem

[jbaxter]

Hi Jeff,

I really like that you dealt with the waivers loophole to make it harder to stockpile players and picks, but it has now gone too far by not allowing for the player to be sent down (thus exposed to waivers again) or traded. Waivers is meant as a way to give older minor league players a chance to play in the NHL. This is often as temporary help. When a team loses a decent player for a couple of months, they'll often take a player off waivers rather than rush a prospect. When the injured player returns, the acquired player is often put back on waivers and either sent down or taken by another team in need.

For sending down, if a player has played fewer than 10 games for the acquiring team, he must be offered back to the original team from which he was taken. After 10 games, he's just a regular player being sent down.

For trades, the rule is a bit more complicated and might be too difficult to bother coding. In a nutshell, it's "players who are claimed off waivers must be offered to the other teams that placed an original claim before that player can be traded."

But as it is now, it's a strong disincentive to claiming players.

[renojedi]

As a recap, the problem before now was the AI claiming players off waivers and immediately sending them to the minors. This was especially frustrating when it was our players.

The actual rule is what you stated regarding offering them back to the original team before they could be sent down. Jeff stated that coding the exact NHL rule for waivers was difficult so the workaround was a temporary NMC for the rest of they year. This would also solve the problem of a game user claiming several players just to trade them or stash them in the minors themselves.

I agree that this had unintended consequences. First, it forced an artificial change to my strategy; I am not going to take a chance on a player who could block my ability to move him if he didn't perform. I look it as a PTO just like you; sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. I'd argue the same goes for real life GMs. If I sign an FA or make a trade, I can move that player if the are bad but I can't do it with a waiver claim?

Second, there are reports from people who do long term sims that after a few years, star players are waived because the AI can't move any other players due to this workaround.

I'd like the NMC workaround to be an option we can turn on and off. I guess I could do commish mode and just take it off but that will get cumbersome if I have to do it for all AI teams as well and check it on a daily basis. And, if I forgot, there is the chance a star player might get waived later which would start to kill immersion for me when teams are actually making themselves worse with their roster moves.

[Zeke K]

Every player over 1.5 stars seems to get claimed right now, and then of course the person on their roster that got replaced gets waived. Then THEY get picked up, and another player hits waivers. The domino effect here is tremendous with near daily claims.

[JeffR]

We're working on some adjustments to the waiver claim logic.

[bmason]

Does this scenario of "have to offer the player back to X team(s)" happen much in real life? I can't recall ever seeing it in a real instance where a player went back to their original team for the reasons.

Just wondering only because it would seem easier if you gently put that part aside and have the game do something like:

For players claimed off waivers, don't allow them to be put back on waivers for 10 days. And don't worry about the trade rule.

Of course if this does happen in real life all the time and I never noticed, ignore my spitballing.

[renojedi]

It does happen from time to time. This year, Washington waived Axel Jonsson-Fjällby. Buffalo claimed him then waived him 7 days later so the Caps claimed him back.

That being said, I like your solution as well. Or, just force the player back to waivers before being sent down. He won't be offered back to just the team that lost him but it seems like a better compromise than the NMC.

[KevT90]

I think it would be more realistic to just have the player go back on waivers if sent down (offered to all team).

I like that it prevents the exploit for trading but this is where adjustment to the trading logic is needed in that the AI should not value a pool of 2* or 2.5* more than just one as those players are everywhere in lower leagues and free agency.

[wiggleman83]

Maybe a NTC for the rest of the season when a player is claimed plus he has to go through waivers to be sent to the minors

[renojedi]

Originally Posted by wiggleman83

Maybe a NTC for the rest of the season when a player is claimed plus he has to go through waivers to be sent to the minors

If that can be added, that is the best solution. I'm not so worried about me because I can edit my waiver picks as I have. I picked up two players. One is still a starter and one didn't work out. So I took the NMC off, put him back on waivers, and someone else picked him up. Not the original team but still better than an NMC.

My worry is the AI teams. I am 40 games into the season and every day several players are getting picked up off waivers, many in the 1.5 - 2 star ability range. Eventually those teams will get handcuffed with all the NMCs and might be forced due to injuries and not having enough players at a particular position to waive their 2.5 - 4 star players who don't have NMCs.