Thoughts on adding cash to AI teams?

[Sweed]

I have a long running league and most AI teams are getting too far into the red. I'm in September and am thinking I'll be adding money to these clubs to get the playing field back to a more level place.

I'm thinking about different ways to prorate cash infusions based on team budgets and how far in the red they are. League wide budgets go from around
55 mil up to 165 mil.

My thinking is a team like The Rays with a 55 mil budget and 40 mil in the red is to give them 40 mil and bring them back to balance.

Teams with larger budgets >$120 mil, I'm trying to come up with a formula that will help but not bail them out. Maybe cut their debt in half( more, less?) as they are capable of making up ground with expiring contracts, ticket prices, etc. Too bail them out further, I'm afraid, would lead to out of control salary inflation.

Then how to prorate for the teams with midlevel budgets? > $80 mil and <$120 mil? Cover 75% at low end, 60% at high end? I'm really just spit-balling numbers with no basis on how or if they will work

Then, when to do it? Just after world series and before FA?
Can you just erase debt and not add cash? Sorry, I haven't dug through the possible ways, afraid I'm typing this "on the fly" My fear is if I add cash and not time it right will the owner take cash out of the team thinking he's made a tidy profit? Would it really make a difference how one does it? Either way the owner may see a pile of money and want his share.

So before the time comes to act I thought I'd throw this out to hear what others have done. Things that worked , things to avoid.

Thanks.

[wallewalls]

I edit the budgets of each team every few years. I've also noticed a lot of teams in the red, so I figured that would be a good way to counter that, rather than adding cash, which I wasn't sure if the owner would just simply pocket or not, as you mentioned.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by wallewalls

I edit the budgets of each team every few years. I've also noticed a lot of teams in the red, so I figured that would be a good way to counter that, rather than adding cash, which I wasn't sure if the owner would just simply pocket or not, as you mentioned.

That's something I had not considered. Thanks for the suggestion it gives me something else to ponder.

[lencombs]

I have a 60 team league in it's 136th season and I haven't made any financial adjustments since it started.

Your post got me curious to do a financial checkup on the league and I noticed 7 of the 59 ai teams finished with a balance in the red last season, and of those only 2 are also in the red midway through the current season. They seem to work themselves out of the red over time be it getting out of a bad contract, or trading away a salary player or whatnot. It's like in the MLB some teams manage money better and it fluctuates.

On the flip side, some of the ai teams I have seen had some sweet rosters pieced together for multi-season playoff runs.

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by wallewalls

I edit the budgets of each team every few years. I've also noticed a lot of teams in the red, so I figured that would be a good way to counter that, rather than adding cash, which I wasn't sure if the owner would just simply pocket or not, as you mentioned.

I have done this as well with good results and I view it as a better solution than cash injections.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by wallewalls

I edit the budgets of each team every few years. I've also noticed a lot of teams in the red, so I figured that would be a good way to counter that, rather than adding cash, which I wasn't sure if the owner would just simply pocket or not, as you mentioned.

Originally Posted by luckymann

I have done this as well with good results and I view it as a better solution than cash injections.

Appreciate the thoughts.

I did wonder, what stops the owner from changing the budget you just altered? I guess, in my mind, if he could pull the cash out he could also say to himself, "upping my budget from 50 mil to 75 mil?, I don't think so." and the next season reduce it. But it seems this isn't an issue or you would have mentioned it.

As noted I hadn't thought about changing the budget. I am certainly giving it serious consideration. My reservation is I like the idea that the owners have set a budget and I would like to keep that if it would work. I play out all of my games so doing it "wrong" may not show up for quite some time. I may try both ways and sim, then ignore stats\standings and only check out the financials. I hope my original idea works but go in fully understanding that your way may be the best way or perhaps the only way.

Thanks again to both for your thoughts.

[PSUColonel]

I have been told. one way to prevent the AI from totally mismanaging finances (going into red) is to disable the "owner controls budget feature" as well as to disable "storylines"

Apparently by taking off the handcuffs, AI teams will have much more money to spend on FA and the like, and therefore won't b going into the red in an effort to build a roster.

The reason to disable the storylines, is because apparently every time a GM is approached about charities and the like, it causes market sizes to be reduced, thereby reducing the amount of media revenue teams receive each year.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I have been told. one way to prevent the AI from totally mismanaging finances (going into red) is to disable the "owner controls budget feature" as well as to disable "storylines"

Apparently by taking off the handcuffs, AI teams will have much more money to spend on FA and the like, and therefore won't b going into the red in an effort to build a roster.

The reason to disable the storylines, is because apparently every time a GM is approached about charities and the like, it causes market sizes to be reduced, thereby reducing the amount of media revenue teams receive each year.

There's another thing I had not thought of, thanks. I turned off story lines when they were first introduced, just no interest in dealing them. But I have always had "owner controls budget" on since inception.

I thought, originally, owners controlling was supposed to help the AI as they could put money into the team when going to far red. Though it almost never seemed to work that way. At least I think I recall, on occasion, an owner putting money in? But if they do\are, at least in my league with the red I'm seeing, it's not enough.

Also since they could take cash out it was a way to curb a human that accumulated too much money. I do have the biggest cash reserve and my owner, last season, took out enough to cut it in half. So that, at least at times, seems to work.

I'll look more into it before the season ends.

[PSUColonel]

Yeah….I’d say it’s a double edge sword. On one hand, disabling most certainIy helps the AI…but allows the human brain layer to go wild. Turning it on keeps the human in check, but also handicaps the AI.

I have been advocating for a total financial system re-write for years, but I’m not sure that’s going to happen.

In the mean time, it may simply be a case of “picking your poison”

[Sweed]

I looked into this a bit more and was surprised the only adjustments I can make, at least that I can see, is "budget" or "starting balance (cash)". My hope is I can add starting cash as I don't want to be increasing budgets. I prefer the realistic world of haves and have nots. Not sure what this will look like when I do this as far as the accounting screen. Will adding money in the starting balance change anything to make the math work in the accounting screen? Ie previous balance + revenue sharing + cash from owner = starting balance, so if I add $X-mil to starting balance will that change something in the accounting screen so the math looks right? I have no idea but will be testing it out, I guess I hoped along the way someone has done this and would pop into this thread

The other thing that surprised me as I looked through my league is owners are indeed putting in quite a bit of money to struggling clubs but, it IMHO doesn't seem to be enough. Note in my screen 2 yrs ago Rays owner put in 22.7 mil and this year almost 13 mil. However that left them starting balance of -$20 mil. These numbers fluctuate a lot between teams. Some owners contributed enough to get to approx -$1 mil.

So at season's end, working from a backup, I'll test out ways to do this starting with adding "starting balance". It will at least be interesting
In the end I'll just want to get teams back to financial stability and see if it lasts, or if, it deteriorates. This is a long time league so some of the problem may just be because things started in previous versions before the financials were improved over the years? Perhaps once adjusted it will stay somewhat inline. If not I may at least find a system of adjusting every few years that will make me happy.

Two screens from Tampa as an example of what I am looking at and the options to "fix". Accounting and the edit financial page available in commish mode.

Thanks again to all who made comments and suggestions.

[PSUColonel]

I am not sure myself...hopefully someone in the know will pop in. Another thing I am going to do is use inflation, but I don't think that should really have any bearing on this issue.

But to be safe, from now on, I don't think the owners inject enough gas, so, I think it's probably a good idea to not enable this feature going forward.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Sweed

There's another thing I had not thought of, thanks. I turned off story lines when they were first introduced, just no interest in dealing them. But I have always had "owner controls budget" on since inception.

I thought, originally, owners controlling was supposed to help the AI as they could put money into the team when going to far red. Though it almost never seemed to work that way. At least I think I recall, on occasion, an owner putting money in? But if they do\are, at least in my league with the red I'm seeing, it's not enough.

Also since they could take cash out it was a way to curb a human that accumulated too much money. I do have the biggest cash reserve and my owner, last season, took out enough to cut it in half. So that, at least at times, seems to work.

I'll look more into it before the season ends.

I wouldn't mind storylines if they were less corny...didn't take money away from the budget (reducing market size) and were actually more baseball related. Things to me that are good story lines would be rifts between players or staff or other personnel.

Stories about an organization member wanting to leave and then leaving or rumors of such etc...

In other words, they need to actually mean something, and should really be baseball related. Not falling off of treadmills or walking under ladders etc..

[luckymann]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Appreciate the thoughts.

I did wonder, what stops the owner from changing the budget you just altered? I guess, in my mind, if he could pull the cash out he could also say to himself, "upping my budget from 50 mil to 75 mil?, I don't think so." and the next season reduce it. But it seems this isn't an issue or you would have mentioned it.

As noted I hadn't thought about changing the budget. I am certainly giving it serious consideration. My reservation is I like the idea that the owners have set a budget and I would like to keep that if it would work. I play out all of my games so doing it "wrong" may not show up for quite some time. I may try both ways and sim, then ignore stats\standings and only check out the financials. I hope my original idea works but go in fully understanding that your way may be the best way or perhaps the only way.

Thanks again to both for your thoughts.

I actually do it twice, once on the first day of the offseason and again as noted above, because most of the offseason activity happens between the first and final budgets. Doing it the first time limits the richer clubs' advantages in the FA market and stops there being any balance sheet problems with cutting their budget after they've committed to the higher one via the FA market.

I tick the top 5 or so down a moderate amount and the bottom 5 up the largest increment, but still retain the various differentials albeit to a lesser degree. I also use the media allocation to tinker with overall revenues, despite this not being all that realistic. The other things I edit are market size and loyalty, but never fan interest - that I just let the machinations of the clubs' respective success and failure decide.

I don't make changes EVERY year, just whenever's necessary in order to make the league look and act how I want it to. Cash injections are a last resort for clubs who have fallen dangerously in the red.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by luckymann

I actually do it twice, once on the first day of the offseason and again as noted above, because most of the offseason activity happens between the first and final budgets. Doing it the first time limits the richer clubs' advantages in the FA market and stops there being any balance sheet problems with cutting their budget after they've committed to the higher one via the FA market.

I tick the top 5 or so down a moderate amount and the bottom 5 up the largest increment, but still retain the various differentials albeit to a lesser degree. I also use the media allocation to tinker with overall revenues, despite this not being all that realistic. The other things I edit are market size and loyalty, but never fan interest - that I just let the machinations of the clubs' respective success and failure decide.

I don't make changes EVERY year, just whenever's necessary in order to make the league look and act how I want it to. Cash injections are a last resort for clubs who have fallen dangerously in the red.

Thanks for this, more food for thought.

I did think about the media money too since there was no way to just put in cash from the owner. I had not thought about market size or loyalty.

My hope is to do things simply with cash (as in starting balance). I would like to not touch the economy of the game if possible (IE budgets or media)and let it go where it will.

If budget\media etc. ends up being the best\only way then I do like your method of top 5- bottom 5 and will keep that in mind.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I am not sure myself...hopefully someone in the know will pop in. Another thing I am going to do is use inflation, but I don't think that should really have any bearing on this issue.

But to be safe, from now on, I don't think the owners inject enough gas, so, I think it's probably a good idea to not enable this feature going forward.

I'm not sure the "owner controls budget" affects cash infusions into cash strapped clubs? I think cash infusions work independent of this feature as a way to try to keep clubs having a reasonable amount of money. My other thought is turning off owner control does not change budget increases year to year. I think all it does is limit how much of cash on hand one can use along with adding variety from team to team. Without every team is unlimited. That may be a good thing, especially for the AI? Maybe I am totally wrong too?

Perhaps a setting where "owner controls" only applies to human teams? But still have the current game economy be the limiting factor for the AI. IE there will still be haves and have nots but, all AI teams, big market or small, would have access to all cash. Though this still might not "fix" teams going into the red. After all just giving them more cash doesn't mean they won't spend themselves back to where they were with the limits

It's an interesting discussion At season's end I'll be in test mode and see how it works out.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I'm not sure the "owner controls budget" affects cash infusions into cash strapped clubs? I think cash infusions work independent of this feature as a way to try to keep clubs having a reasonable amount of money. My other thought is turning off owner control does not change budget increases year to year. I think all it does is limit how much of cash on hand one can use along with adding variety from team to team. Without every team is unlimited. That may be a good thing, especially for the AI? Maybe I am totally wrong too?

Perhaps a setting where "owner controls" only applies to human teams? But still have the current game economy be the limiting factor for the AI. IE there will still be haves and have nots but, all AI teams, big market or small, would have access to all cash. Though this still might not "fix" teams going into the red. After all just giving them more cash doesn't mean they won't spend themselves back to where they were with the limits

It's an interesting discussion At season's end I'll be in test mode and see how it works out.

Be sure to let us know what you find…it’s a curious situation for sure.

[PSUColonel]

One other consideration…I don’t think it’s very realistic to not know from year to year what an owner is going to do regarding cash….I think that’s something a GM would know in advance…the only question I have, is does it just make things way too easy for the human GM?

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

One other consideration…I don’t think it’s very realistic to not know from year to year what an owner is going to do regarding cash….I think that’s something a GM would know in advance…the only question I have, is does it just make things way too easy for the human GM?

I haven't put any thought into it. I just take it in when it happens.

I'd like commissioner power to edit owner cash along with the budget and starting balance. At least in my mind this would be the easiest and quickest fix.
With the caveat there may be knock on effects I haven't thought of Heading to suggestion forum soon

I will report back what I do and results when I get there. I did just purchase the newest FM that will slow down my OOTP a bit I should still make good pace though as I can't go long without my baseball fix and I am looking forward (really ) to seeing how this works out.

[Leo_The_Lip]

Just to add my two cents to the pot, I'll mention again what I've found and posted about over the years.

1) If you are starting out in a new league, set all marktet sizes to 10. Less than that and some teams fall too quickly below 7, which is when trouble starts.

2) I set every owner's traits to 3 to begin. As they die off, I check to see no one falls below this level.

3) Remember, the owner increasing your budget by $20 million and demanding you increase cash by $30 is completely inrealistic. This NEVER happens in real life. In any realistic organization, the budget would set $10 lower and you would know what you can spend.

So the only option to prevent this total nonsense is to review each team at the end of the year. My point 2 makes this easier and less tedious.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip

Just to add my two cents to the pot, I'll mention again what I've found and posted about over the years.

1) If you are starting out in a new league, set all marktet sizes to 10. Less than that and some teams fall too quickly below 7, which is when trouble starts.

2) I set every owner's traits to 3 to begin. As they die off, I check to see no one falls below this level.

3) Remember, the owner increasing your budget by $20 million and demanding you increase cash by $30 is completely inrealistic. This NEVER happens in real life. In any realistic organization, the budget would set $10 lower and you would know what you can spend.

So the only option to prevent this total nonsense is to review each team at the end of the year. My point 2 makes this easier and less tedious.

See, this is the kind of stuff that ruins OOTP for me....I don't think you should have to go in and do this much work. It's not realistic, and it's not fun. OOTP should be able to self sustain financially as you move from year to year within the simulation.