Historical Minors - Page 12

David Watts · 10-06-2021, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splat58

A guy named Canada playing for the Expos.

I got a kick out of that as well.

David Watts · 10-06-2021, 01:58 PM

I think the real Gene Richards made his Major League debut in 1977. In this replay Richards has burst onto the scene in 1975 as a member of the Atlanta Braves. Richards is currently hitting in the hood of .378, best in the NL. He hit over .400 for a lengthy stretch and then sat in the .390's for a stretch as well. It's been a memorable first half for Richards to say the least.

splat58 · 10-06-2021, 03:01 PM

Richards was drafted by San Diego. His first year was spent with the Reno Silver Sox, who were shared by San Diego and Minnesota. OOTP probably has them as unaffiliated, and the AI treats him as a free agent. His history in your game may show Atlanta signing him off the Reno roster.

I've also noticed
OOTP putting Tony Pena in the Atlanta organization. Pena was signed by Pittsburgh. Pgh had so many catchers they loaned Pena to one of Atlanta's MiL teams for a while in 1976.

I've noticed some other players treated like Richards - starting their MiL careers with teams treated by OOTP as unaffiliated. Then the AI has them signing with organizations they didn't play for. (Nino Espinosa, Larry Harlow in my league, that I caught.)

Starting a league in 1969, I found Steve Renko in the Expos organization at the start of the season. Donn Clendenon is on the Expos roster to start the season. The problem is Renko was part of the package traded by the Mets to the Expos for Clendenon in June 1969. Renko should begin the season in the Mets organization.

So, before I play another league I'm going to use Baseball Reference to look at the transactions by each team each year to make sure players appear in the correct organizations to begin their careers. Time consuming but will save me some irritation.

splat58 · 10-06-2021, 03:36 PM

Another one I found was 1962 Denny McLain. Signed by the ChiW, he played for the Harlan Smokies, who were shared by ChiW & NYY. OOTP treats them as unaffiliated.
So McLain gets treated as a free agent and is signed by some other organization during the season.

David Watts · 10-06-2021, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splat58

Richards was drafted by San Diego. His first year was spent with the Reno Silver Sox, who were shared by San Diego and Minnesota. OOTP probably has them as unaffiliated, and the AI treats him as a free agent. His history in your game may show Atlanta signing him off the Reno roster.

I've also noticed
OOTP putting Tony Pena in the Atlanta organization. Pena was signed by Pittsburgh. Pgh had so many catchers they loaned Pena to one of Atlanta's MiL teams for a while in 1976.

I've noticed some other players treated like Richards - starting their MiL careers with teams treated by OOTP as unaffiliated. Then the AI has them signing with organizations they didn't play for. (Nino Espinosa, Larry Harlow in my league, that I caught.)

Starting a league in 1969, I found Steve Renko in the Expos organization at the start of the season. Donn Clendenon is on the Expos roster to start the season. The problem is Renko was part of the package traded by the Mets to the Expos for Clendenon in June 1969. Renko should begin the season in the Mets organization.

So, before I play another league I'm going to use Baseball Reference to look at the transactions by each team each year to make sure players appear in the correct organizations to begin their careers. Time consuming but will save me some irritation.

The one position that continues to baffle me when playing this way is catcher. I've seen so many good catchers waived and released. A lot of teams have 2nd string catchers that never seen a day in the bigs.

splat58 · 10-06-2021, 04:06 PM

Also the disrespect for good glove / no hit shortstops. Larry Bowa always gets waived by Philly in the early 1970's. In 2 straight leagues I started in 1969, St. Louis trades for Winston Llenas & installs him at SS and leaves Dal Maxvill on the bench. Llenas was a helluva MiL hitter but never hit in the Bigs & wasn't much of a glove at short. He ends up with big negative range factors.

Starting in 1969, Detroit plays Mickey Stanley at SS & Jim Northrup in CF. Makes great sense offensively & Stanley was average defensively. But Northrup finished 1969 with a negative 52.6 ZR in CF. He improved to negative 7.7 in 1970. The Tigers would have been better served by playing Stanley in CF & a real SS.

splat58 · 10-06-2021, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

The one position that continues to baffle me when playing this way is catcher. I've seen so many good catchers waived and released. A lot of teams have 2nd string catchers that never seen a day in the bigs.

To your point, in my league started in 1969, Johnny Edwards gets claimed on waivers by San Diego after spring training. He's a mediocre hitter but an excellent defender. He only hits .198/.271/.293 but has a +1.8 ZR, 1.175 EFF, 36.6 CS%, 3.75 CERA for a hapless expansion team.

He gets waived after spring training in 1970 & no team picks him up all season even though he's still an excellent defender. While so many teams have MiL catchers on their rosters who can't hit or field.

David Watts · 10-06-2021, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splat58

Also the disrespect for good glove / no hit shortstops. Larry Bowa always gets waived by Philly in the early 1970's. In 2 straight leagues I started in 1975, St. Louis trades for Winston Llenas & installs him at SS and leaves Dal Maxvill on the bench. Llenas was a helluva MiL hitter but never hit in the Bigs & wasn't much of a glove at short. He ends up with big negative range factors.

Starting in 1969, Detroit plays Mickey Stanley at SS & Jim Northrup in CF. Makes great sense offensively & Stanley was average defensively. But Northrup finished 1969 with a negative 52.6 ZR in CF. He improved to negative 7.7 in 1970. The Tigers would have been better served by playing Stanley in CF & a real SS.

I've had good luck in terms of SS so far in my game. Bowa is still starting for the Phils, Dent is starting for the Sox. Belanger is still the O's SS. Campi is still starting for the A's and Brinkman is still plugging along for the Tigers. Yount is a strange one, as he's started both 74 and 75 playing 2B with Gorman Thomas manning SS. But, each season the AI finally rights the ship and gets him at SS where he belongs. In 75 it actually looks like Thomas may be ready to permanently move to the OF.

Strange deal about the day Stoneman threw that no hitter pictured above. Dave Rozema threw a 1 hitter against the Baltimore Orioles that very same day. Rozema has been awful for most of his rookie year, but managed to right the ship for at least one game....we will have to see if he's turned the corner leaving suckatude in his rear view mirror.

Clay Carroll was pretty untouchable for the Reds over the first two month of the season. Carroll was nailing down each and every save opportunity handed him and rolling with an ERA in the low 1's. The the final week of June came and Carroll has now blown his last 3 save opportunities and picked up 3 straight losses in doing so. His ERA is now approaching the mid 3's. He has 19 saves on the season which matches his season total for the 73 and 74 seasons.

Meanwhile I'm starting to think no lead is to large for Steve Foucalt to blow. Dude might be the worst closer in baseball history. He was recently brought into a 13-2 game and before you could blink it was 13-9. Recently the Rangers have show signs they may be ready to try someone else in the role of closer, but only time will tell. Tom Murphy of the Angels is another closer that's starting to implode. Rollie Fingers on the other hand is on a torrid pace with in the hood of 27 saves already in 75.

thehef · 10-06-2021, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

... in 1975 ... Luis Tiant is 8-3, 2.28 as the Reds #3 starter.

That just seems weird, Tiant on the '75 Reds

David Watts · 10-06-2021, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

That just seems weird, Tiant on the '75 Reds

It sure does and man could the Red Sox use him. The Sox have been awful over the first 3 months of the 75 season. They've been showing some life as of late, but the hole they dug themselves is just too deep.

David Watts · 10-07-2021, 09:06 AM

Was watching a Tiger game last night and I saw something that really has me debating whether I want to turn High fatigue back to Normal fatigue. One of my all time biggest sports sim pet peeves is guys playing out of position. So in the Tiger game I was watching, Dan Meyer started and played an entire game as the team's SS. He is not rated to play SS. Dudes and OF/!B. Now Brinkman and McAulliffe were both fatigued Tony Taylor the teams other rated SS was playing 2B. If I see this happen again, I will have to go back to normal fatigue.

splat58 · 10-07-2021, 09:20 AM

Meyer played 2B & 3B in the minors. If you're using 5 year recalc it may be looking at him as an IF eligible player.

David Watts · 10-07-2021, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splat58

Meyer played 2B & 3B in the minors. If you're using 5 year recalc it may be looking at him as an IF eligible player.

Oh wow, I didn't even think to check that. Still don't like the fact that he doesn't have a rating there. With your info it won't be a game breaker for me, unless I see the AI start doing it on a everyday basis. Hopefully it was just a matter of necessity for one game only.

splat58 · 10-07-2021, 03:21 PM

What trade level do you use for your league? I had mine set on average & saw a lot of ridiculous trades - like 1970 Billy Williams for 2 MiL who never played in the MiL after 1971. I have development on, but doubt it would help those jabronies.

I reset the trade level to low for 1972. One week into April the 29 year old Tony Perez was traded for 35 y/o Ron Perranoski and Steve Brye.

No way would ChiC & Cincy make stupid trades like that. I'm going to have to Bowie Kuhn this latest one, although I'd rather just watch what happens in the league, like you do.

David Watts · 10-07-2021, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splat58

What trade level do you use for your league? I had mine set on average & saw a lot of ridiculous trades - like 1970 Billy Williams for 2 MiL who never played in the MiL after 1971. I have development on, but doubt it would help those jabronies.

I reset the trade level to low for 1972. One week into April the 29 year old Tony Perez was traded for 35 y/o Ron Perranoski and Steve Brye.

No way would ChiC & Cincy make stupid trades like that. I'm going to have to Bowie Kuhn this latest one, although I'd rather just watch what happens in the league, like you do.

I have it set to average. I actually wish there was more player movement and can't wait for free agency to kick in. I doubt I will ever play using the reserve clause again. I do find myself shaking my head at some of the trades though. I think the ones that involve a real established player for 3 or 4 "neverwillplay" prospects are the hardest to stomach. But, I think those are just the nature of the beast when playing with so many players.

thehef · 10-07-2021, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

Was watching a Tiger game last night and I saw something that really has me debating whether I want to turn High fatigue back to Normal fatigue. One of my all time biggest sports sim pet peeves is guys playing out of position. So in the Tiger game I was watching, Dan Meyer started and played an entire game as the team's SS. He is not rated to play SS. Dudes and OF/!B. Now Brinkman and McAulliffe were both fatigued Tony Taylor the teams other rated SS was playing 2B. If I see this happen again, I will have to go back to normal fatigue.

Definitely an area where OOTP needs to tweak things. Think of the reasons guys would play out of position in real life. There are a few, including running out players late in a game/extra innings, but "fatigue to other players" is not one of them; certainly not a reason you would put an OF/1B in the SS position. In reality, a manager would play the tired guy before something drastic/illogical.

The very worst OOTP AI should have done is put Taylor at SS and Meyer at 2B. I mean even that should not have happened; OOTP should have started a tired Brinkman or McAuliffe at SS and Taylor at 2B, but if OOTP determined that neither Eddie or Dick would be in the lineup, and that Taylor & Meyer were to start & man the middle infield positions, it should've at least known to put Taylor at SS & Meyer at 2B.

I shudder to think of the miles of code that go into lineup creation, and when I then think of how much OOTP gets right vs how much it gets wrong, it's pretty dang impressive. But still, this is an example of something that needs a'fixin'.

Brad K · 10-07-2021, 10:35 PM

I noticed a box score where the 1B was injured early and the replacement was someone with no qualification at 1B. The two players listed as backup 1B were starters at other positions. AI uses them at 1B for starting lineups when the 1B is fatigued or hurt prior to the game, but didn't move them to 1B for an in game injury.

In the big picture though, AI is amazingly good with it's handling of lineups.

David Watts · 10-08-2021, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splat58

Meyer played 2B & 3B in the minors. If you're using 5 year recalc it may be looking at him as an IF eligible player.

Wow, you nailed it on the head. My bad for not checking before I opened my mouth Meyer is actually rated 5 out of 10 at 2B. He is now a red 1 at SS. He also has ratings to play 3B like you said. So like theHef said, Meyer at 2B and Taylor at SS, would have been the way to go. Was looking at the lineup page and the Meyer is actually slated in the 2B portion along with McAuliffe. Taylor is now listed as the teams backup at 3B. Tigers need a utility guy, so Meyer might be a blessing.

David Watts · 10-08-2021, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splat58

Also the disrespect for good glove / no hit shortstops. Larry Bowa always gets waived by Philly in the early 1970's. In 2 straight leagues I started in 1969, St. Louis trades for Winston Llenas & installs him at SS and leaves Dal Maxvill on the bench. Llenas was a helluva MiL hitter but never hit in the Bigs & wasn't much of a glove at short. He ends up with big negative range factors.

Starting in 1969, Detroit plays Mickey Stanley at SS & Jim Northrup in CF. Makes great sense offensively & Stanley was average defensively. But Northrup finished 1969 with a negative 52.6 ZR in CF. He improved to negative 7.7 in 1970. The Tigers would have been better served by playing Stanley in CF & a real SS.

I also may have spoken too soon here as well. The Phillies now have Larry Bowa starting at 2B, Alan Bannister playing SS.

David Watts · 10-08-2021, 01:28 PM

When I get home, I'm going to go searching for Frank White.

10-06-2021, 04:06 PM	#226
splat58 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 74	Also the disrespect for good glove / no hit shortstops. Larry Bowa always gets waived by Philly in the early 1970's. In 2 straight leagues I started in 1969, St. Louis trades for Winston Llenas & installs him at SS and leaves Dal Maxvill on the bench. Llenas was a helluva MiL hitter but never hit in the Bigs & wasn't much of a glove at short. He ends up with big negative range factors. Starting in 1969, Detroit plays Mickey Stanley at SS & Jim Northrup in CF. Makes great sense offensively & Stanley was average defensively. But Northrup finished 1969 with a negative 52.6 ZR in CF. He improved to negative 7.7 in 1970. The Tigers would have been better served by playing Stanley in CF & a real SS. Last edited by splat58; 10-06-2021 at 04:44 PM.

10-07-2021, 09:06 AM	#231
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,885 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Was watching a Tiger game last night and I saw something that really has me debating whether I want to turn High fatigue back to Normal fatigue. One of my all time biggest sports sim pet peeves is guys playing out of position. So in the Tiger game I was watching, Dan Meyer started and played an entire game as the team's SS. He is not rated to play SS. Dudes and OF/!B. Now Brinkman and McAulliffe were both fatigued Tony Taylor the teams other rated SS was playing 2B. If I see this happen again, I will have to go back to normal fatigue. Last edited by David Watts; 10-07-2021 at 09:07 AM.

10-07-2021, 03:21 PM	#234
splat58 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 74	What trade level do you use for your league? I had mine set on average & saw a lot of ridiculous trades - like 1970 Billy Williams for 2 MiL who never played in the MiL after 1971. I have development on, but doubt it would help those jabronies. I reset the trade level to low for 1972. One week into April the 29 year old Tony Perez was traded for 35 y/o Ron Perranoski and Steve Brye. No way would ChiC & Cincy make stupid trades like that. I'm going to have to Bowie Kuhn this latest one, although I'd rather just watch what happens in the league, like you do. Last edited by splat58; 10-07-2021 at 03:23 PM.

10-06-2021, 01:58 PM	#222
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,885 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I think the real Gene Richards made his Major League debut in 1977. In this replay Richards has burst onto the scene in 1975 as a member of the Atlanta Braves. Richards is currently hitting in the hood of .378, best in the NL. He hit over .400 for a lengthy stretch and then sat in the .390's for a stretch as well. It's been a memorable first half for Richards to say the least.

10-06-2021, 03:01 PM	#223
splat58 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 74	Richards was drafted by San Diego. His first year was spent with the Reno Silver Sox, who were shared by San Diego and Minnesota. OOTP probably has them as unaffiliated, and the AI treats him as a free agent. His history in your game may show Atlanta signing him off the Reno roster. I've also noticed OOTP putting Tony Pena in the Atlanta organization. Pena was signed by Pittsburgh. Pgh had so many catchers they loaned Pena to one of Atlanta's MiL teams for a while in 1976. I've noticed some other players treated like Richards - starting their MiL careers with teams treated by OOTP as unaffiliated. Then the AI has them signing with organizations they didn't play for. (Nino Espinosa, Larry Harlow in my league, that I caught.) Starting a league in 1969, I found Steve Renko in the Expos organization at the start of the season. Donn Clendenon is on the Expos roster to start the season. The problem is Renko was part of the package traded by the Mets to the Expos for Clendenon in June 1969. Renko should begin the season in the Mets organization. So, before I play another league I'm going to use Baseball Reference to look at the transactions by each team each year to make sure players appear in the correct organizations to begin their careers. Time consuming but will save me some irritation.

10-06-2021, 03:36 PM	#224
splat58 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 74	Another one I found was 1962 Denny McLain. Signed by the ChiW, he played for the Harlan Smokies, who were shared by ChiW & NYY. OOTP treats them as unaffiliated. So McLain gets treated as a free agent and is signed by some other organization during the season.

10-07-2021, 09:20 AM	#232
splat58 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 74	Meyer played 2B & 3B in the minors. If you're using 5 year recalc it may be looking at him as an IF eligible player.

10-07-2021, 10:35 PM	#237
Brad K Banned Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,693 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	I noticed a box score where the 1B was injured early and the replacement was someone with no qualification at 1B. The two players listed as backup 1B were starters at other positions. AI uses them at 1B for starting lineups when the 1B is fatigued or hurt prior to the game, but didn't move them to 1B for an in game injury. In the big picture though, AI is amazingly good with it's handling of lineups.

10-08-2021, 01:28 PM	#240
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,885 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	When I get home, I'm going to go searching for Frank White.