Development fixed?

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Mat

The biggest issue I see (fictional league) is with how the the rookie draftees are generated. There is always a group that are quite well developed, before even allowing for time to develop while in the draft pool.

Hmmm, I can't say I've seen this much in my tests.

At least as far as a generated player in the draft pool initially generating above a '20' or maybe '25' current rating on the 20-80 by 5 scale in my tests. When it happens, it's just a handful at most. I've seen players get there after sitting in the pool a bit, fairly frequently (too frequently). Which is what we primarily adjusted for this last pass through. But not really when they first generate.

Not saying it can't happen or hasn't happened in any of the other tests we've done that I didn't do. But for me it's been at least a pretty rare thing to see.

Are you using default PCM's and development settings or have you customized these at all?

Also, are these leagues that have been running for a while and built up a pool of talent, or are they newly generated leagues?

Newly generated leagues, the talent distribution tends to be a bit different than leagues that have been running for some years, so I could see it being more likely to happen in those than in a league with 20 or 50 years of history or in the MLB quickstart etc.

[Mat]

All standard PCM's and dev settings. I did only sim 10 years I will sim further!

[klkitchens]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

This is already controlled by adjustable settings in the game. You can freely adjust those to whatever you want to get the development to be quicker or slower or whatever you think is best/more realistic for your game.

Just go to 'game settings' > 'players and facegen' and adjust the Batter Dev. Speed, Pitcher Dev. Speed and/or the Talent Change Randomness settings.

As far as the changes in the patch, the underlying source of the players getting to the majors too quickly was that some players were developing too quickly while still in the draft pool, and thus coming out of the draft too far up on the development curve, with too high current ratings. Then with even normal amounts of development once in the minors, they were hitting the majors too soon.

The adjustments we made should significantly improve that now. Obviously it still might not be perfect, and if there are still issues, we can look at tweaking things more.

That's cool. but are they exportable and shareable with other players? That would be the bomb.

[batsfan]

My biggest issue with this is the unrealistic progression through the minors. I am frequently seeing highly developed draft picks get called up with very few if any games above A-ball. In my sim, I have scouting and coaching disabled, and AI player evaluation set to only stats, no ratings. Yet these prospects with good ratings but no stats consistently are getting the call.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Hmmm, I can't say I've seen this much in my tests.

At least as far as a generated player in the draft pool initially generating above a '20' or maybe '25' current rating on the 20-80 by 5 scale in my tests. When it happens, it's just a handful at most. I've seen players get there after sitting in the pool a bit, fairly frequently (too frequently). Which is what we primarily adjusted for this last pass through. But not really when they first generate.

Not saying it can't happen or hasn't happened in any of the other tests we've done that I didn't do. But for me it's been at least a pretty rare thing to see.

Are you using default PCM's and development settings or have you customized these at all?

Also, are these leagues that have been running for a while and built up a pool of talent, or are they newly generated leagues?

Newly generated leagues, the talent distribution tends to be a bit different than leagues that have been running for some years, so I could see it being more likely for those, to happen in those than in a league with 20 or 50 years of history or in the MLB quickstart etc.

Yes, this is definitely adjustable, but I would argue we’d want the default (out of the box) settings to be better. One might adjust the development settings, only to realize the the defaults have changed without them knowing.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by klkitchens

That's cool. but are they exportable and shareable with other players? That would be the bomb.

Not as such, though it would just take them a few seconds to enter any new settings based on recommendations.

But it's not a bad idea to have this be easily exportable and shareable. I'll add it to my list of ideas for us to discuss in the future.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Yes, this is definitely adjustable, but I would argue we’d want the default (out of the box) settings to be better. One might adjust the development settings, only to realize the the defaults have changed without them knowing.

Well, yeah, that's what we're working on here, getting the defaults right

This is not a super easy thing to get perfect, especially since it's also tied up with a bunch of other ai functions like roster management, 40-man roster management, minor league promotions, option years, arbitration status, etc.

It's really easy to go a little far in one direction and get 30 guys getting called up in their draft years, but if we go too far trying to fix that, we end up with the issue we'd had in some cases in past years of guys staying in A ball until they're 28 and never developing or getting called up.

So it's a tough balance to get just right, and even as is, I personally prefer this to how we had it in previous years when guys were stuck in the low minors too long.

We'll keep looking this over though and continue to pay attention to all your feedback and if we need to tweak things more, we will.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Well, yeah, that's what we're working on here, getting the defaults right

This is not a super easy thing to get perfect, especially since it's also tied up with a bunch of other ai functions like roster management, 40-man roster management, minor league promotions, option years, arbitration status, etc.

It's really easy to go a little far in one direction and get 30 guys getting called up in their draft years, but if we go too far trying to fix that, we end up with the issue we'd had in some cases past years of guys staying in A ball until they're 28 and never developing or getting called up.

So it's a tough balance to get just right, and even as is, I personally prefer this to how we had it in previous years when guys were stuck in the low minors too long.

We'll keep looking this over though and continue to pay attention to all your feedback and if we need to tweak things more, we will.

Thanks

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Mat

All standard PCM's and dev settings. I did only sim 10 years I will sim further!

do you have 100% scouting? the default scouting subterfuge adds a ton of talent to the eye.

[BradG223]

I think this is somewhat related to this topic: are there any ideas out there to slow down player development in historical play (Full Minors - no recalc)? I just started a 1942 sim and some players (Al Rosen, Ray Boone) are debuting 5+ years sooner than they did in real life.
I know my historical world won't replicate real life with recalc off, but the discrepancy I'm seeing seems a bit excessive.

[nyctomek]

Anyone have any thoughts on this after the latest patch?

Just had my first draft pool announced since installing the new patch. I haven't started a new fgame, just continuing a game I've been running, so not sure if that's the reason, but it seems players are still very much developed. As an example, the first two pitchers I looked at in the 2024 draft class.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by nyctomek

I haven't started a new fgame, just continuing a game I've been running, so not sure if that's the reason

The patch is not going retroactively undevelop anyone who already developed too much under the previous patch, so you really won't be able to get a feel for this without either starting a new game or waiting a few years until the guys present previously leave the draft pools.

[itsmb8]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

The patch is not going retroactively undevelop anyone who already developed too much under the previous patch, so you really won't be able to get a feel for this without wither starting a new game or waiting a few years until the guys present previously leave the draft pools.

I think this is something a lot of people have failed to realize. Players first appear 4 years before their draft year, so unless you just started a brand new game, those players in the draft pool just announced have already been developing for at least a year.

I think best practice would be testing all patch changes in a brand new save no matter what.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by itsmb8

I think best practice would be testing all patch changes in a brand new save no matter what.

Yes, this is absolutely true.

[BradG223]

I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but from what I gather players are absolutely still advancing too fast. Even with the new patch.

In a completely new real MLB sim, 2022 saw ten players debut who were drafted the year prior, and 2023 saw 11.
In real life, 2017-2019 saw one such occurrence each year (triple-checked baseball-reference).

I'll try a new sim, and will go deeper in the future and see if I get the same results.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by BradG223

I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but from what I gather players are absolutely still advancing too fast. Even with the new patch.

In a completely new real MLB sim, 2022 saw ten players debut who were drafted the year prior, and 2023 saw 11.
In real life, 2017-2019 saw one such occurrence each year (triple-checked baseball-reference).

I'll try a new sim, and will go deeper in the future and see if I get the same results.

Just curious. In this newest sim, how many players from the 2020 draft class debuted in 2021?

[sutnopG]

It's me again - the starter of this thread...

Appreciate all insights in to this potential issue. Discussions like this is important for the overall evolution of the game.

But my question is still there. Had my hopes up that the patch released this week would make everyone just leave this and be happy about development / promotion to MLB.

My feeling is that this is still an issue BUT i realize that it's a small amount of people writing in this thread and overall i believe most are satisfied with this part of the game.

Anyone with more data on this? Anyone new with a different opinion?

Asks because my brain can't handle this if the issue is that big some say and will not invest time before it's declared fixed or someone just say it's blown up haha.

Many thanks in advance!

[Vegas Vic]

Here's my current shortstop, only 22 years old, who I picked up in a trade with the Angels. Not an easy trade, I had to give up the #1 starting pitching prospect and a couple of other good young players. I just signed him to a long term deal with a front loaded contract.

Notice that he started rookie ball at 16 years of age, and at 18 the Angels moved him up from A to A+ to MLB, bypassing AA and AAA.

[fnz]

Originally Posted by sutnopG

It's me again - the starter of this thread...

Appreciate all insights in to this potential issue. Discussions like this is important for the overall evolution of the game.

But my question is still there. Had my hopes up that the patch released this week would make everyone just leave this and be happy about development / promotion to MLB.

Based on the reading I'm doing about this (it's preventing me from starting my other saves, so I'm very invested in it haha), it seems like the "promotion to MLB" is the often-overlooked part of this. I'm starting to question if I'm the only person who doesn't play a fictional league in the year 2196.

I've seen the same exact things everyone else has been seeing with draft classes, but I'm most often seeing players being promoted, who are already in the roster, at the start of the save, which makes me think this could be a problem that extends outside of development. These players aren't being developed by the game engine over the course of my save, they're beginning that way (I imagine the work to fix the entire historical database requires a large time investment).

As shown in the post above mine, they're often being promoted three levels at once. A lot of the players that I see promoted at young ages in the game seem to come from Single A. Is there some sort of slider/behind the scenes mechanic that influences the way AI teams promote players? It seems right now that the entire minor league system is just treated as a reserve roster, and the AI picks guys to promote from there, without a regard for the level the player is at. This might be by design, I have no idea.

I'm not trying to question any game design decisions here, I'm just trying to understand the issue as I'm sure the dev team is.

[jaguar8311]

Originally Posted by fnz

Based on the reading I'm doing about this (it's preventing me from starting my other saves, so I'm very invested in it haha), it seems like the "promotion to MLB" is the often-overlooked part of this. I'm starting to question if I'm the only person who doesn't play a fictional league in the year 2196.

I've seen the same exact things everyone else has been seeing with draft classes, but I'm most often seeing players being promoted, who are already in the roster, at the start of the save, which makes me think this could be a problem that extends outside of development. These players aren't being developed by the game engine over the course of my save, they're beginning that way (I imagine the work to fix the entire historical database requires a large time investment).

As shown in the post above mine, they're often being promoted three levels at once. A lot of the players that I see promoted at young ages in the game seem to come from Single A. Is there some sort of slider/behind the scenes mechanic that influences the way AI teams promote players? It seems right now that the entire minor league system is just treated as a reserve roster, and the AI picks guys to promote from there, without a regard for the level the player is at. This might be by design, I have no idea.

I'm not trying to question any game design decisions here, I'm just trying to understand the issue as I'm sure the dev team is.

I'm experiencing the same things too. No natural progression of development, the top prospects just jump levels at a time. Example, by June 2022, you have SP's who were drafted in 2021 in the MLB. But they're not even SP's, they're being called up as relievers!

I was so ready to start a career save. I guess I'll have to wait longer



None of these players should be in the MLB right now. It's only June 1, 2022, and these are the players from last year's draft!

https://imgur.com/a/kzJNFbO