MLB too big??

andyhdz · 05-26-2021, 12:26 PM

I don't consider myself an MLB fanatic. I follow my team pretty well and know their players and top prospects and that's it along with the major stars of the other teams. I think that's about normal for the average MLB fan (maybe a tad bit above the average). My point is here are the reasons why I don't know most of the other players on other teams.

1. fantasy baseball is nowhere near as popular as football so there is no need to know everyone like you do that 3rd WR on some random team.
2. Baseball coverage is very, very local so besides some weekly nationally televised games that get low ratings anyways people will tune in to their local game and that's it.
3. Baseball is a hard sport to play so a lot of players just don't stay consistently good and along with the injuries, trades and transactions and comings and goings and 5 tiered minor league system below them it's just hard to keep up with everyone.

This leads me to conclude, that while 32 works fine for football, 30 is great for basketball, 30 is just too big for the MLB. MLB knows this, doesn't want to expand, and even thought about contracting before they came to their $en$e.

When I play OOTP I notice this when I have larger leagues and find it hard to follow players and don't have much of an investment in them but now that I reduced my league to 24 I find it way easier to follow players on other teams and can quickly remember that average 3B on Team A that is now traded to Team B. I can imagine this connection was even greater back when there were just 16 teams.

Agree or disagree?

koohead · 05-26-2021, 01:31 PM

The biggest difference between football and baseball is the time commitment, from a fan perspective. Football fans have to dedicate 3-4 hours once a week. Baseball fans, if they really want to know the 4th starter or the 39th guy on the 40-man roster, need to keep up with the news on a daily basis. Fantasy baseball has actually helped me get to know players outside of my market and teams of interest. No one outside of Cardinals fans or diehard fantasy managers would know Tommy Edman or Tyler O'Neill, or that Dylan Carlson is / was a top prospect. (No idea why i'm picking the on the Cards).
It's also hard to follow baseball from a prospect standpoint. College football and basketball get alot of media time, and players go from being stars in college to stars in the pros year 1. Even the top college baseball players take 2-3 years before their debut. Out of sight out of mind. So its hard to make and maintain that connection to players throughout their career.
Modern media is about information right away and in quick bursts. Journalism is gone from Sports, outside of The Athletic. Most fans don't want to spend time every day keeping up with the sport.

dsvitak · 05-26-2021, 01:47 PM

OK. Listen up, I'm only going to go through the math once.

In 1910, there were 16 mlb teams, with 92 million Americans. Subtract out 10 million African-Americans, and this leaves 5.1 million white Americans per MLB franchise.

In 1950, there were 16 mlb teams, with 151 million Americans, about 9 million Americans per franchise.

In 2020, there are 330 million Americans, and HUNDREDS of millions of Latino's, Japanese, Koreans, and others, all wanting to play in MLB.

With 600 million + eligible, and just 30 teams, this is 20 million people - plus - eligible for each major league team.

I can firmly state that the number of excellent players available for each team has never been higher.

Except.

Except that the TRAINING and expectations for these players are massively different that what they were when I first started playing organized baseball, 60 years ago.

The modern players are excellent athletes, but their training is ****. Their basic knowlege, EVEN AT THE MLB LEVEL, is less than that of my high school team. Moving the runner along, throwing to the correct base, and simply knowing how to play the game is crucial.

I was a little league coach, for the first time, on a small US Air Force base in England, in 1977. I would spend a half hour grilling my 10 and 11 year old players on scenarios. Runner at second, one out, fly ball to left field. What does the first baseman do? Everyone had somewhere to go, on every fair ball put in play. I got constant compliments on my team. The ball was hit, and people were MOVING.

I don't see this at the MLB level. No one on, ground ball to the SS, the catcher needs to MOVE his ass down toward first base. Left fielder needs to haul ass toward the left field line. Right fielder needs to head down the right field line, closer to the plate.

rant on

That's my biggest complaint, is that modern managers/front office personnel don't seem to care about creating a TEAM...they seem to want the next Acuna, or Tatis, or Guerrero, or worse still, Javy Baez. Flashy players in gold chains that swing for the fences.

Puig was a perfect example of this. Jim Bouton once described Mike Ivy of having a 40 million dollar airport-body, with a twenty dollar head-control tower.

That's how I see it. I know more about baseball, by FAR, than most of the baseball players I watch.

I got to watch Pujols slap a ground ball to short, runner on first and one out, and jog halfway to first.

What happened to hustle??? All this got Pujols was 406 double plays, 56 more than the next player in MLB history. Frankly, his buddy Yadier is almost as bad.

/rant off

dsvitak · 05-26-2021, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyhdz

I don't consider myself an MLB fanatic. I follow my team pretty well and know their players and top prospects and that's it along with the major stars of the other teams. I think that's about normal for the average MLB fan (maybe a tad bit above the average). My point is here are the reasons why I don't know most of the other players on other teams.

1. fantasy baseball is nowhere near as popular as football so there is no need to know everyone like you do that 3rd WR on some random team.
2. Baseball coverage is very, very local so besides some weekly nationally televised games that get low ratings anyways people will tune in to their local game and that's it.
3. Baseball is a hard sport to play so a lot of players just don't stay consistently good and along with the injuries, trades and transactions and comings and goings and 5 tiered minor league system below them it's just hard to keep up with everyone.

This leads me to conclude, that while 32 works fine for football, 30 is great for basketball, 30 is just too big for the MLB. MLB knows this, doesn't want to expand, and even thought about contracting before they came to their $en$e.

When I play OOTP I notice this when I have larger leagues and find it hard to follow players and don't have much of an investment in them but now that I reduced my league to 24 I find it way easier to follow players on other teams and can quickly remember that average 3B on Team A that is now traded to Team B. I can imagine this connection was even greater back when there were just 16 teams.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree. When the reserve clause was eliminated in MLB, this stopped knowing where all the players were.

How many players play their entire career with one team? QUICK..WHO DOES YADIER MOLINA PLAY FOR?

That wasn't hard...now, how about Josh Donaldson, or Billy Hamilton? Puig?

You can follow players, but it isn't easy, given the level of player movement.

dsvitak · 05-26-2021, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koohead

The biggest difference between football and baseball is the time commitment, from a fan perspective. Football fans have to dedicate 3-4 hours once a week. Baseball fans, if they really want to know the 4th starter or the 39th guy on the 40-man roster, need to keep up with the news on a daily basis. Fantasy baseball has actually helped me get to know players outside of my market and teams of interest. No one outside of Cardinals fans or diehard fantasy managers would know Tommy Edman or Tyler O'Neill, or that Dylan Carlson is / was a top prospect. (No idea why i'm picking the on the Cards).
It's also hard to follow baseball from a prospect standpoint. College football and basketball get alot of media time, and players go from being stars in college to stars in the pros year 1. Even the top college baseball players take 2-3 years before their debut. Out of sight out of mind. So its hard to make and maintain that connection to players throughout their career.
Modern media is about information right away and in quick bursts. Journalism is gone from Sports, outside of The Athletic. Most fans don't want to spend time every day keeping up with the sport.

Tommy Edman is going to be an All Star in this league. So is Dylan Carlson. Carlson, especially. He is only 22, and is third in pitches taken per at bat. Highly selective contact hitter. A future MVP.

Westheim · 05-26-2021, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsvitak

That wasn't hard...now, how about Josh Donaldson, or Billy Hamilton? Puig?

Donaldson's a Twin. Puig's nothing. And Hamilton's a scrub and really, truly doesn't matter.

Zorian77 · 05-26-2021, 02:39 PM

Sports aren't designed for a fan to have perfect knowledge of everything that is happening in the sports league. They're designed to entertain and make money for the players and owners. There are at least half a dozen markets the MLB could expand into and make more money.

monkeyman576 · 05-26-2021, 04:25 PM

I agree that expansion would be good for MLB. Expand with 4 teams, Las Vegas(NL), Portland(AL), Nashville(NL), and Charlotte(AL). There are plenty of players in the minor leagues to build your MLB teams with so there is no risk of over saturation. MLB teams make more money, more fans get to watch baseball, everyone is happy.

koohead · 05-26-2021, 05:01 PM

speaking of Tommy...FML

dsvitak · 05-27-2021, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koohead

speaking of Tommy...FML

He picked a pretty good day to help my point. In the eighth inning today, the Cards had two hits, both Edman bombs.

The fun thing, according to the Cards announcers, is that they averaged 433 feet.

He isn't a big guy, but he can rake. Nice, level swing, just puts the ball in play. He is leading the league in at bats, and is on pace for about 70 strikeouts. In this day and age, that's pretty low.

05-26-2021, 12:26 PM	#1
andyhdz All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Fresno, CA by way of Texas Posts: 1,754	MLB too big?? I don't consider myself an MLB fanatic. I follow my team pretty well and know their players and top prospects and that's it along with the major stars of the other teams. I think that's about normal for the average MLB fan (maybe a tad bit above the average). My point is here are the reasons why I don't know most of the other players on other teams. 1. fantasy baseball is nowhere near as popular as football so there is no need to know everyone like you do that 3rd WR on some random team. 2. Baseball coverage is very, very local so besides some weekly nationally televised games that get low ratings anyways people will tune in to their local game and that's it. 3. Baseball is a hard sport to play so a lot of players just don't stay consistently good and along with the injuries, trades and transactions and comings and goings and 5 tiered minor league system below them it's just hard to keep up with everyone. This leads me to conclude, that while 32 works fine for football, 30 is great for basketball, 30 is just too big for the MLB. MLB knows this, doesn't want to expand, and even thought about contracting before they came to their $en$e. When I play OOTP I notice this when I have larger leagues and find it hard to follow players and don't have much of an investment in them but now that I reduced my league to 24 I find it way easier to follow players on other teams and can quickly remember that average 3B on Team A that is now traded to Team B. I can imagine this connection was even greater back when there were just 16 teams. Agree or disagree? __________________ *************************************** It's your game. Play it how you like it. *************************************** Last edited by andyhdz; 05-26-2021 at 12:28 PM.

05-26-2021, 01:31 PM	#2
koohead Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,195	The biggest difference between football and baseball is the time commitment, from a fan perspective. Football fans have to dedicate 3-4 hours once a week. Baseball fans, if they really want to know the 4th starter or the 39th guy on the 40-man roster, need to keep up with the news on a daily basis. Fantasy baseball has actually helped me get to know players outside of my market and teams of interest. No one outside of Cardinals fans or diehard fantasy managers would know Tommy Edman or Tyler O'Neill, or that Dylan Carlson is / was a top prospect. (No idea why i'm picking the on the Cards). It's also hard to follow baseball from a prospect standpoint. College football and basketball get alot of media time, and players go from being stars in college to stars in the pros year 1. Even the top college baseball players take 2-3 years before their debut. Out of sight out of mind. So its hard to make and maintain that connection to players throughout their career. Modern media is about information right away and in quick bursts. Journalism is gone from Sports, outside of The Athletic. Most fans don't want to spend time every day keeping up with the sport. __________________ GM - New Jersey Bears of the NPBL;

05-26-2021, 05:01 PM	#9
koohead Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,195	speaking of Tommy...FML Attached Images __________________ GM - New Jersey Bears of the NPBL;

05-26-2021, 01:47 PM	#3
dsvitak Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,256	OK. Listen up, I'm only going to go through the math once. In 1910, there were 16 mlb teams, with 92 million Americans. Subtract out 10 million African-Americans, and this leaves 5.1 million white Americans per MLB franchise. In 1950, there were 16 mlb teams, with 151 million Americans, about 9 million Americans per franchise. In 2020, there are 330 million Americans, and HUNDREDS of millions of Latino's, Japanese, Koreans, and others, all wanting to play in MLB. With 600 million + eligible, and just 30 teams, this is 20 million people - plus - eligible for each major league team. I can firmly state that the number of excellent players available for each team has never been higher. Except. Except that the TRAINING and expectations for these players are massively different that what they were when I first started playing organized baseball, 60 years ago. The modern players are excellent athletes, but their training is ****. Their basic knowlege, EVEN AT THE MLB LEVEL, is less than that of my high school team. Moving the runner along, throwing to the correct base, and simply knowing how to play the game is crucial. I was a little league coach, for the first time, on a small US Air Force base in England, in 1977. I would spend a half hour grilling my 10 and 11 year old players on scenarios. Runner at second, one out, fly ball to left field. What does the first baseman do? Everyone had somewhere to go, on every fair ball put in play. I got constant compliments on my team. The ball was hit, and people were MOVING. I don't see this at the MLB level. No one on, ground ball to the SS, the catcher needs to MOVE his ass down toward first base. Left fielder needs to haul ass toward the left field line. Right fielder needs to head down the right field line, closer to the plate. rant on That's my biggest complaint, is that modern managers/front office personnel don't seem to care about creating a TEAM...they seem to want the next Acuna, or Tatis, or Guerrero, or worse still, Javy Baez. Flashy players in gold chains that swing for the fences. Puig was a perfect example of this. Jim Bouton once described Mike Ivy of having a 40 million dollar airport-body, with a twenty dollar head-control tower. That's how I see it. I know more about baseball, by FAR, than most of the baseball players I watch. I got to watch Pujols slap a ground ball to short, runner on first and one out, and jog halfway to first. What happened to hustle??? All this got Pujols was 406 double plays, 56 more than the next player in MLB history. Frankly, his buddy Yadier is almost as bad. /rant off

05-26-2021, 02:39 PM	#7
Zorian77 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 58	Sports aren't designed for a fan to have perfect knowledge of everything that is happening in the sports league. They're designed to entertain and make money for the players and owners. There are at least half a dozen markets the MLB could expand into and make more money.

05-26-2021, 04:25 PM	#8
monkeyman576 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,328	I agree that expansion would be good for MLB. Expand with 4 teams, Las Vegas(NL), Portland(AL), Nashville(NL), and Charlotte(AL). There are plenty of players in the minor leagues to build your MLB teams with so there is no risk of over saturation. MLB teams make more money, more fans get to watch baseball, everyone is happy.