It might be the same game engine but it isn't producing the same results

[Dave Stieb II]

I'm into about the my sixth new standard game in OOTP22 and it will probably be my last. No sense wasting good time after wasting good money when you're looking for a realistic baseball simulation game and not getting anything close to that.
I play all the games out. Pitch by painful pitch.
I've reached the 16-18 game mark in each of the previous saves before aborting.
I've reached the 18 game mark in my current save with Miami and the results are much the same as the previous saves.
And, unfortunately, the results are not realistic.Not even close.
Further background:
My pitching coach is Dave Righetti.
My hitting coach is Joey DeMontis.
Both quality coaches.
My staff chemistry is ecstatic.
Our record is 10-8 but this is NOT about that. Not at all. It's about realism.
I have not used 'pitch around' on one single pitch while playing the games out.
Just trying to cover as many bases as I can to not waste time as fellow posters search for plausible explanations for the indefensible.
I won't apologize for the 'small' sample size either. It is no longer a small sample size when you look at the innings pitched collectively, both by our pitchers and the other teams around the league.
The problem is - in EVERY ONE of my six new standard games this year - is that my pitchers' K rates per 9 innings are so extremely, negatively, abnormally low compared to league norms, it has ruined any sense of immersion or pleasure.
That, along with the absurdly low babip's of far too many of my players - again in every attempted start up - renders the game basically unplayable from the point of realism.
Yes, IRL, there are always a few outliers - especially 18 games into a season. But OOTP - and I really started to notice this last year and it's worse in OOTP22 - takes everything to an extreme and consequently you have a mutltude of pitchers with less than 5 K's per 9 innings and at least five batters with babip's under .200 and another group well under the norm of around .300.
And they are not offset by a couple part-time role players with babips over .400 in limited playing time. Sorry.
And the pitchers aren't offset by - any other pitchers.
So I'm going to post the following:
1. Our pitching staff to date with the focus on K/9.
2. AL pitching totals to date - check out team K totals.
3. NL same as above.
4. Our team individual batting to date with focus on BABIP.
Finally, I will be the first to admit that this Miami team isn't loaded with big K pitchers outside of Matt Barnes (he sucks, too, though).
But c'mon.
These numbers are SO FAR below their RL norms and the team is so far off the league average that it is pathetic.
I am so tired of watching my pitchers fall behind in almost every count, even with 60+ control, work back to full counts, have the batters foul off a half dozen pitches and then get a batted ball in play with either a positive or negative result. Rinse and repeat.
Where is the occasional strike out??????
Conversely, how long do I have to watch the same large group of players with babip's either subterranean or at least well below the RL norm, pop up, ground out, or hit a fly ball directly at an outfielder.
When do at least a few of those guys get a hit to fall in???????
I know. Same game engine is used both for simmed and played out games.
But once again I will tell you - while that might be true it certainly doesn't produce the same results.
Resulting sense of immersion or plesure = 0.
Spent thousands of hours playing the last five versions. Noticed the extreme negativity and lack of realism creeping in last year. It is far worse this year.
I'm pretty much done.

[ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH]

[silvam14]

Have you ever gotten past a measly 18 game sample size?

[Dave Stieb II]

I knew that was coming.
To answer your question: Not this year. Not necessary.

When exactly the same thing reoccurs six straight start ups; when the small strikeout numbers are so outrageous ACROSS THE BOARD for all pitchers every time; when a half dozen regulars have babips lower than .250 every time; ad nauseum - that is no longer a measly small sample size.

Even if the K numbers for at least 10 of my 13 pitchers corrected to close to their norms, and my team totals (even if among the lower ones in the league) suddenly reached the same stratosphere as the other teams what kind of realistic baseball simulation is that?
No one can K anyone then suddenly all of them correct to their norms?
Please. The exact same problem occurred in six straight start ups. That is no longer a small sample size. I already qualify as insane for doing the same thing and getting the same results six straight times.
And the total lack of enjoyment or realism - I just had a 0 K game to add insult to injury - has rendered the game unplayable. (Not that a 0 K game can't happen, even in 2021, but it is an extreme outlier - the sort of thing OOTP has turned into the norm while making the normal an extreme outlier).
Besideds,that lopsided team K total differential would only grow with a larger sample size unless the 'engine' suddenly realized that the very same players all needed to multiply their K totals X 1.3 to 2 times their current levels which, again, would be totally unrealistic.
Oh, it's May, maybe we should start striking people out to near our career norms.?
No. Sorry. Your standard 'sample size' defence doesn't fit every situation and certainly not this one. Not this time.

[The Game]

What teams have you used for each of your leagues? I can post league totals K/9 & BABIP for 5 leagues. all are above average. I am in my 2nd season on 22 for my main EBL vs MLB league. I am slightly mad that in my ASPBL with modern modifiers and neutralized stats i have SP with K/9 in the 15 range.31 games. in another with over 60 games in Dick Allen has the stats below.. None one else is within 10 HR of him.

Otani, Mathewson & W. Johnson are clones.

[Mantush]

I'm seeing SO/9 close to 9 for almost every team in the league (except yours). This is in line with results thus far in modern 2021. https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...MLB/2021.shtml

May I ask what you are expecting to see?

[pstrickert]

If you're seeing these results every time, there may be a problem. It definitely strikes me as odd.

[lencombs]

I have ran a few LiveSims on autopilot and the Marlins and Rockies are at the bottom of the NL in team K's.

Checking the current real MLB stats the Rockies are next to last in K's, while the Marlins are currently trending better than they have simmed for me sitting mid-pack 8th in the NL.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by Mantush

I'm seeing SO/9 close to 9 for almost every team in the league (except yours). This is in line with results thus far in modern 2021. https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...MLB/2021.shtml

May I ask what you are expecting to see?

You just stated the problem clearly and succinctly. K rates close to 9 per 9 innings for every other team but mine.
But let me be clear, the Marlins shouldn't be near the league leaders or even middle of the pack in K's necessarily. This current staff probably should be among the lower K-rate per 9 innings teams
But when all the others are around 9 per 9 and then we are at 6.3/9 that is a substantial, irrational difference. Matt Barnes, 4. something K's per 9 innings. C'mon! And SP who should be between 6 and 8 per 9 ar K'ing 4 per 9.
It is across the board, it is wrong, it is unrealistic and it is unplayable.

[andyhdz]

Originally Posted by Dave Stieb II

I knew that was coming.
To answer your question: Not this year. Not necessary.

When exactly the same thing reoccurs six straight start ups; when the small strikeout numbers are so outrageous ACROSS THE BOARD for all pitchers every time; when a half dozen regulars have babips lower than .250 every time; ad nauseum - that is no longer a measly small sample size.

Even if the K numbers for at least 10 of my 13 pitchers corrected to close to their norms, and my team totals (even if among the lower ones in the league) suddenly reached the same stratosphere as the other teams what kind of realistic baseball simulation is that?
No one can K anyone then suddenly all of them correct to their norms?
Please. The exact same problem occurred in six straight start ups. That is no longer a small sample size. I already qualify as insane for doing the same thing and getting the same results six straight times.
And the total lack of enjoyment or realism - I just had a 0 K game to add insult to injury - has rendered the game unplayable. (Not that a 0 K game can't happen, even in 2021, but it is an extreme outlier - the sort of thing OOTP has turned into the norm while making the normal an extreme outlier).
Besideds,that lopsided team K total differential would only grow with a larger sample size unless the 'engine' suddenly realized that the very same players all needed to multiply their K totals X 1.3 to 2 times their current levels which, again, would be totally unrealistic.
Oh, it's May, maybe we should start striking people out to near our career norms.?
No. Sorry. Your standard 'sample size' defence doesn't fit every situation and certainly not this one. Not this time.

Your playing the same opponents 18 times for six different replays and you wonder why are seeing similar results? Try randomizing your opponents and then see what happens.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by lencombs

I have ran a few LiveSims on autopilot and the Marlins and Rockies are at the bottom of the NL in team K's.

Checking the current real MLB stats the Rockies are next to last in K's, while the Marlins are currently trending better than they have simmed for me sitting mid-pack 8th in the NL.

Thanks for this but here is the reality of my current sim and the five previous (many with pitching staffs that would be expected to have higher K/9 rates than the Marlins, including the Padres and Mets).
In each sim, my pitchers were substantially below - almost to a man every single sim - their RL K/9 rates. The outlier was the pitcher who was at or slightly above his career norm. The rest were substantially below. Each team also underperformed as a group then, obviously.
Even this Marlins team, which I never expected to be among the team leaders or even middle of the pack, is K'ing 6.3/9 as opposed to EVERY OTHER TEAM, all of whom are in the 9/9 range. I have SP who might be expected to K 6.5-8 per 9 at 4.3, 4.7 trash like that.
Unfortunately, I deleted the prior saves after I aborted. I am accustomed to taking garbage to the curb.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by andyhdz

Your playing the same opponents 18 times for six different replays and you wonder why are seeing similar results? Try randomizing your opponents and then see what happens.

How about I just do what I actually did.
Played with SD, Mets, SF, KC, White Sox and now Marlins.
Obviously, none of them faced the same opponents.
How about that?
I guess I wasn't clear that I used six different teams for the six start ups. I would never play the same team twice unless I've tried multiple other teams I'm interested in.

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by lencombs

I have ran a few LiveSims on autopilot and the Marlins and Rockies are at the bottom of the NL in team K's.

Checking the current real MLB stats the Rockies are next to last in K's, while the Marlins are currently trending better than they have simmed for me sitting mid-pack 8th in the NL.

I just had a chance to look at the attachment you included and it adds substantial weight to my point.
So here's the rub:
In your simmed save, the Marlins had 1311 K's opposed to 1629 for the NL-leading Dogers. By my calculation, that means Miami K'd 80.5% of the Dodgers total.
In my played out games to date, Miami has struck out 114 batters while the league leading Padres (funny, they certainly never were close to the lead when I played out their games) have K'd 186. That amounts to the Marlins striking out 61% of the batters San Diego pitchers have.
I should reiterate that I didn't suddenly take the Marlins, play 18 games and come on here and yell that the sky was falling.
The very same thing happened - to various degrees - playing approximately 18 games with San Diego, NYM, the White Sox, Royals and San Fran in my previous start ups. I didn't save the screenshots. I didn't do the math. I didn't have to. Virtually all my pitchers, for each of those teams, were below their career norms in K/9 and in many cases substantially below.
This is not a question of suggesting the game is "fixed" against me, the paying customer.
But I am saying that there is a difference between the results - at least in this important area - depending on whether you play out the games or sim them.
And K/9 is very important because, if OOTP BABIP's actually adjust to sensible and realistic norms for the majority of players as the season moves on, then the ability to K people becomes even more important.

[OutS|der]

If 18 games is enough to make you quit then this or any sports sim isn't for you.

None of your points past that mean anything cause all I see is only 18 games.

Come back with it's 100,18 games of this

[Dave Stieb II]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

If 18 games is enough to make you quit then this or any sports sim isn't for you.

None of your points past that mean anything cause all I see is only 18 games.

Come back with it's 100,18 games of this

None of my points past this might mean anything to you - but you don't speak for everyone as far as I know.
Are you some sort of moderator?
This is my thread. These are valid points, and if you look past your small minded small sample size assumption you might see this.
Please don't return to this thread and don't ever speak down to me from your self-created high and mighty throne again, no matter how many other lackeys you might have to do your bidding.

[spacer15415]

Originally Posted by Dave Stieb II

None of my points past this might mean anything to you - but you don't speak for everyone as far as I know.
Are you some sort of moderator?
This is my thread. These are valid points, and if you look past your small minded small sample size assumption you might see this.
Please don't return to this thread and don't ever speak down to me from your self-created high and mighty throne again, no matter how many other lackeys you might have to do your bidding.

Jeebus!

[Bobfather]

I also play out every game. (one pitch). But I ignore the stats until the end of May. I suggest playing out more games to see if the numbers normalize
Just a suggestion, not a criticism.

[slic1149]

FWIW, The only reason to play a game is if you are having fun. It is, after all, a game. I can only speak for myself but I would suggest you quit playing. I am sure the developers would hate to lose you as a customer and be sorry you found their game somehow lacking. But you have expectations that are not being met. Just remember your dissatisfaction is yours and it does not affect my enjoyment at all. I hope you find a game that does meet your expectations.

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by Dave Stieb II

None of my points past this might mean anything to you - but you don't speak for everyone as far as I know.
Are you some sort of moderator?
This is my thread. These are valid points, and if you look past your small minded small sample size assumption you might see this.
Please don't return to this thread and don't ever speak down to me from your self-created high and mighty throne again, no matter how many other lackeys you might have to do your bidding.

18 games. Just 18 games.

If you’re so quick to give up after 18 games have you tried simming any of those saves for the whole year and seeing if your “complaints” hold up over time?

Also do you see the same results when you auto sim for the 18 opening games or have you only played them out?

[rudel.dietrich]

Does this happen when you sim out a game, or only when you manage games yourself pitch by pitch?

If possible, could you set up the same league and sim the first 18 games and report the numbers?

[zappa1]

And don't even start on stolen bases. lol