Players who ONLY play centerfield/shortstop

[BadluckinOOTP]

When OOTP creates outfielders, it sometimes makes excellent defensive outfielders who only have any experience playing center. Numerous times (I sim huge chunks of time) I've seen excellent outfielders be forced to play awful centerfield because the game won't convert them to a corner spot because they have zero experience there, especially when they age and their defensive abilities start to deteriorate, but their bat doesn't.

The same issue exists with SS, but to a lesser extent, I believe. The AI won't move them to 2B or 3B or even 1B, if they have zero experience there, and will play horrific defensive shortstops because their bat is still potent. I know Willie Mays and Kenny Lofton played center at 41, but most other hard hitting centerfielders/shortstops are going to convert to another position if their bat still has it and they lose some steps defensively.

I've taken to trying to identify these guys and editing to add other position But I wish there was another way. My solution would be that any natural centerfielder or shorstop would come with at least a little experience at any position to the left or right of them and maybe that would stimulate the AI playing them at new positions. But, that would probably open a new can of problems.

[CBeisbol]

Agreed
4 stars

[BadluckinOOTP]

Trout is a good example of this in the 2020 file. Eventually, he's going to become a LF or 1B or something, but the AI trots him out at CF even though he's a 7 out of 20 in center, and could be a 13 or 14 in left.

[Rain King]

Yeah, I see this often enough that I always use the DH now...just to keep these type of guys out of the field (since the AI doesn't switch their position).

[mytreds]

I see many players being played in positions that they have lower ratings on compared to other positions they play. I agree it’s annoying to do manually.

[StLee]

I tend to micromanage too much. I have played OOTP for a long time, but I feel this is one of those hard-coded things since the beginning that is a product of the original coder not completely understanding how baseball talent is made. The majority of MLB players were their high school team's ace, SS, or CF. They make it to upper levels (college/rookie league) and then expand their abilities.

BUT the main thing is this, a SS in the MLB CAN play every position in the infield. A CF can play every outfield position quite well. SOME players can field a ground ball and a fly ball with equal ability. OOTP does not generate versatile players well.

I HATE when I see a SS who only has stats for SS. I micromanage so much that I make them all positions.

[StLee]

I left off catcher. Top HS and collegiate catchers start there in the MLB.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by mytreds

I see many players being played in positions that they have lower ratings on compared to other positions they play. I agree it’s annoying to do manually.

I don't feel like this is the issue. The player should play the position that makes the most sense for the team. If they are the best CF, they should play CF...even though every CF will also be even better at an easier outfield position such as LF.

The issue is more that they don't get moved when they ONLY have a rating at the primary position (because they don't have experience at any others). Teams find a way to get their players' experience at the other positions as their skill diminish. CF's move to a corner position, SS's (if they have great bats) will move somewhere else on the infield.

This transition sometimes doesn't happen in OOTP and you are left with a guy rated as a 2 CF starting there because of their bat....when that guy should really be a 4 or 5 LF at that point which is much less damaging to the overall team defense.

[SirMichaelJordan]

I use this chart to manually edit.

It’s a huge disadvantage for the AI as they will suffer from poor defense.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by StLee

I tend to micromanage too much. I have played OOTP for a long time, but I feel this is one of those hard-coded things since the beginning that is a product of the original coder not completely understanding how baseball talent is made. The majority of MLB players were their high school team's ace, SS, or CF. They make it to upper levels (college/rookie league) and then expand their abilities.

BUT the main thing is this, a SS in the MLB CAN play every position in the infield. A CF can play every outfield position quite well. SOME players can field a ground ball and a fly ball with equal ability. OOTP does not generate versatile players well.

I HATE when I see a SS who only has stats for SS. I micromanage so much that I make them all positions.

OOTP does a pretty good job of representing this. Those players can easily switch to a lesser position, they are just missing some experience there that would generate a visible rating. The issue is more with the AI if they do not transition that player when it is obvious they can no longer hack it at that primary position.

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by Rain King

OOTP does a pretty good job of representing this. Those players can easily switch to a lesser position, they are just missing some experience there that would generate a visible rating. The issue is more with the AI if they do not transition that player when it is obvious they can no longer hack it at that primary position.

I agree, I've always felt that an SS with good ratings can play "lesser" positions fine, and the AI will use some of your SS at other IF positions if they have no other options. Maybe it should weight the fielding ratings more than the position ratings when choosing? But then the AI would always play Jeter at 2B and people would grouse about that.

Also, isn't Nate Silver's chart wrong? Catchers usually try 3B first when falling off C because they have good arms (cf. Pablo Sandoval, Jaime Quirk, Ken Macha, Johnny Bench). Then 1B if not.

[Westheim]

The AI does move players from time to time. I've seen it move a run-down catcher to centerfield a while back That was also the end of the New York Crusaders as a competitive entity.

I get the annoyance in the thread though; my longterm shortstop (only 31!) defensively is past his "best before" date and I had to move him to third base for the new season. Zero experience. It's gross. Worse, the third baseman had to move to short to accomodate the other guy's decomposing body, and can't cope either. The left side is a free-for-all. It's only the start of May and my hair is already all white. At least the parts that I didn't rip out by the fistful.

[wodi]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

I use this chart to manually edit.

It’s a huge disadvantage for the AI as they will suffer from poor defense.

Maybe this is the reason I have long felt, winning in the regular season was very easy as you got deeper in.... because the AIs defense became really poor.

Any shot this can be addressed in a patch?

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by wodi

Maybe this is the reason I have long felt, winning in the regular season was very easy as you got deeper in.... because the AIs defense became really poor.

Any shot this can be addressed in a patch?

I’m sure it’s one of the problems.

Players end of having over -20 UZR in key fielding positions.

Every offseason, I sort all league players by age 30 and make the appropriate edits to affect players.


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[t-bone shuffle]

I believe part of the problem you see here has to to with players from the mlb season sets. In these, a SS for example who has no statistical time at say CF, will have OF ratings set to 0. All the experience in the world cant improve when this is the case.

Fictional players are almost always assigned defensive ratings for all positions, which depending upon other attributes would allow a player to learn a new spot. For example, all fictional players will be generated with catcher ability and arm ratings of at least 1. So, at least it might be possible for one to learn the C position.

Bottom line is that a zero position rating eliminates any possibility of learning to play that position.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle

I believe part of the problem you see here has to to with players from the mlb season sets. In these, a SS for example who has no statistical time at say CF, will have OF ratings set to 0. All the experience in the world cant improve when this is the case.

Fictional players are almost always assigned defensive ratings for all positions, which depending upon other attributes would allow a player to learn a new spot. For example, all fictional players will be generated with catcher ability and arm ratings of at least 1. So, at least it might be possible for one to learn the C position.

Bottom line is that a zero position rating eliminates any possibility of learning to play that position.

It happens to fictional players as well.

It’s not really a problem of the user teaching new position but the AI never doing so especially with a veteran.

Then when you run into a aging vet who lost all of his other position ratings and is now a 20 at 2B, instead of the AI moving him, they will keep him at 2B


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[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

It happens to fictional players as well.

It’s not really a problem of the user teaching new position but the AI never doing so especially with a veteran.

Then when you run into a aging vet who lost all of his other position ratings and is now a 20 at 2B, instead of the AI moving him, they will keep him at 2B


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My mistake, I didn't properly read the OP. He is describing an AI inefficiency

I hit on a long time pet peeve of mine regarding roster set generated players and the lack of overall skill set being the deciding factor in position potential. It's really just an issue with roster set generated players.

[BadluckinOOTP]

I'd like to bump this. Have guys playing -20 ZR defense at CF/SS, because they can still really hit. They would be moved to a different position long ago by a player.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by BadluckinOOTP

I'd like to bump this. Have guys playing -20 ZR defense at CF/SS, because they can still really hit. They would be moved to a different position long ago by a player.

I hope this is addressed in 22. A talented fielder who could play those positions during his prime years would most definitely have some skills at other positions (like corner IF/corner OF) and would move down the spectrum as they got older.


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[MikeS21]

You almost have to physically change the positions of some players because they are listed in the wrong positions in the game. Jose Garcia of the Reds is set in the game as a 2B. And I have seen many instances of players listed at a position that they have no ratings at all.