Double or triple

Dutch Alexander · 01-20-2021, 08:54 AM

See below gamelog. Mauk Bonis hits a groundball into RF with runners at 1st and 3rd and two outs. Both runners score and Bonis ends up at 3rd. The RF fields the ball and throws to 3rd were Bonis is safe. This is scored as a double for Bonis, see gamelog.

Can someone explain to me why this is not a triple? If the throw is to homeplate and the hitter advances an extra base it makes that it is scored a double with the runner advancing a base on the throw.
But in this case the throw is to 3rd base so it seems to me this should be a triple. I've seen this play numerous times.

BIG17EASY · 01-20-2021, 10:25 AM

Based on the play-by-play, you're right, it should be a triple. I believe the devs have acknowledged a few instances where play-by-play does not match exactly what's created in the game engine, so my guess is that there's actually a throw home that's cut off and a subsequent throw made to third, and that the play-by-play is wrong.

Cobbiusto · 01-20-2021, 10:30 AM

This is a scoring error that manifests itself throughout OOTP. Even if the ball is relayed by an infielder to the base that the hitter is attempting, he should be credited with that base if he is safe. The only time he should be credited with achieving the base "on the throw" is when an actual play is attempted on a player at another base.

BIG17EASY · 01-20-2021, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobbiusto

This is a scoring error that manifests itself throughout OOTP. Even if the ball is relayed by an infielder to the base that the hitter is attempting, he should be credited with that base if he is safe. The only time he should be credited with achieving the base "on the throw" is when an actual play is attempted on a player at another base.

That's not exactly true. If the runner advanced as a result of a throw made anywhere other than an attempt on that specific runner, then the runner is deemed to advance on the throw. It's a bit of judgement call for the official scorer based on if the runner appears to hesitate or otherwise read the throw before advancing. In the OP's instance, if the RF throws to a cutoff man intended to be relayed to home, then that throw is going to the first baseman, who is well behind the batter/runner. That would definitely allow the batter/runner to advance to third.

Unfortunately the mechanics of OOTP's game engine aren't that nuanced, so we only can really determine what the mistake is by looking at the coding that determined the outcome of the play.

jeffw3000 · 01-20-2021, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

That's not exactly true. If the runner advanced as a result of a throw made anywhere other than an attempt on that specific runner, then the runner is deemed to advance on the throw. It's a bit of judgement call for the official scorer based on if the runner appears to hesitate or otherwise read the throw before advancing. In the OP's instance, if the RF throws to a cutoff man intended to be relayed to home, then that throw is going to the first baseman, who is well behind the batter/runner. That would definitely allow the batter/runner to advance to third.

Unfortunately the mechanics of OOTP's game engine aren't that nuanced, so we only can really determine what the mistake is by looking at the coding that determined the outcome of the play.

This is correct. It is really a judgement call of the scorer on whether the runner would have attempted to go to third had no throw been made home. Even if there was a cutoff, and the runner is safe, it is still a double if the official scorer feels the runner only advanced because the throw was made home.

Cobbiusto · 01-20-2021, 12:21 PM

Yes, that is true where an official scorer can observe whether the runner hesitated and then advanced only because of where the initial throw was made and that's not possible in OOTP. But I think you will find that in most all cases where he doesn't hesitate, the benefit of the doubt will go to the batter and if a play is made on the batter, he will be given credit for the base (unless, of course, the relay is coming back from somewhere around home). I say this as someone who scored high school games for decades. If someone has the time and the interest they could always search for videos + box scores of MLB games to differentiate the nuances.

mytreds · 01-24-2021, 10:36 PM

This is a known failure of the simulator to correctly record triples and doubles. It sucks but oh well.

01-20-2021, 08:54 AM	#1
Dutch Alexander All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 727	Double or triple See below gamelog. Mauk Bonis hits a groundball into RF with runners at 1st and 3rd and two outs. Both runners score and Bonis ends up at 3rd. The RF fields the ball and throws to 3rd were Bonis is safe. This is scored as a double for Bonis, see gamelog. Can someone explain to me why this is not a triple? If the throw is to homeplate and the hitter advances an extra base it makes that it is scored a double with the runner advancing a base on the throw. But in this case the throw is to 3rd base so it seems to me this should be a triple. I've seen this play numerous times. Attached Images

01-20-2021, 10:30 AM	#3
Cobbiusto Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 303	This is a scoring error that manifests itself throughout OOTP. Even if the ball is relayed by an infielder to the base that the hitter is attempting, he should be credited with that base if he is safe. The only time he should be credited with achieving the base "on the throw" is when an actual play is attempted on a player at another base. Last edited by Cobbiusto; 01-20-2021 at 10:39 AM.

01-24-2021, 10:36 PM	#7
mytreds All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 1,182	This is a known failure of the simulator to correctly record triples and doubles. It sucks but oh well. __________________ “Baseball isn’t statistics; it’s Joe DiMaggio rounding second.” “Once, centuries ago, it was the beloved national pastime of the Americas, Wesley. Abandoned by a society that prized fast food and faster games. Lost to impatience.” “ The term ‘WAR’ should be replaced by ‘WAG’. WAR isn’t an actual measurement; it’s just a wild-ass guess” -Bill James RIP National League 1876-2022 Floreat semper vel invita morte. I make custom ballparks.

01-20-2021, 10:25 AM	#2
BIG17EASY Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,291	Based on the play-by-play, you're right, it should be a triple. I believe the devs have acknowledged a few instances where play-by-play does not match exactly what's created in the game engine, so my guess is that there's actually a throw home that's cut off and a subsequent throw made to third, and that the play-by-play is wrong.

01-20-2021, 12:21 PM	#6
Cobbiusto Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 303	Yes, that is true where an official scorer can observe whether the runner hesitated and then advanced only because of where the initial throw was made and that's not possible in OOTP. But I think you will find that in most all cases where he doesn't hesitate, the benefit of the doubt will go to the batter and if a play is made on the batter, he will be given credit for the base (unless, of course, the relay is coming back from somewhere around home). I say this as someone who scored high school games for decades. If someone has the time and the interest they could always search for videos + box scores of MLB games to differentiate the nuances.