Young starting pitches with fully developed pitches

Mkilkeary3007 · 12-30-2020, 07:16 PM

Hey all,

I was going through the amateur draft and found a young pitcher (19) with his 3 pitches almost fully developed. What does that mean for his development? Could it lead to better growth of his stuff, mov or control?

SirSaab · 12-31-2020, 04:24 AM

“Never draft an 18-year-old with a full beard. It means he’s fully developed and won’t grow any more.”

Cryomaniac · 12-31-2020, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSaab

“Never draft an 18-year-old with a full beard. It means he’s fully developed and won’t grow any more.”

It wouldn't surprise me at all if some real life GM has made this argument

RchW · 12-31-2020, 08:56 AM

If you look at Dwight Gooden's career arc he was never better than his age 19 and 20 seasons.

SirSaab · 12-31-2020, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

It wouldn't surprise me at all if some real life GM has made this argument

It was Buck Showalter. The quote comes up now and again on OOTP loading screens LOL

rink23 · 12-31-2020, 07:34 PM

According to his bio, Doc Gooden started using cocaine in after the 1985 season, his second full season.
Might explain what happened after that.

RonCo · 01-01-2021, 11:39 AM

That he threw about 250 innings a season as a 19, 20, and 21 year old probably didn't help.

BirdWatcher · 01-02-2021, 02:01 PM

I can't help but feel that we haven't actually answered the OP's question here, though I do see where the Showalter quote about a full beard on an 18-year old might be a hint towards a possible answer, which is that in the situation the OP described this could be a sign that there is less room for overall improvement than if the individual pitches were less developed.

It does seem like we would need more information in order to intelligently answer this. I will make a bit of an assumption though, based upon what the OP did say, that perhaps the indication is that while individual pitches are mostly developed, stuff, movement, and control ratings are not very high or developed at this stage. I guess my initial instinct is that we might be talking about a high floor, low-ish ceiling guy.

I guess my primary questions would be:
1) What are the ratings for the three pitches that are almost fully developed?
2) What are the pitcher's stuff, movement, and control ratings? Current and potential.
3) What do we know about the pitcher's makeup/personality traits (particularly, I think, in this case his intelligence, adaptability, and work ethic)?
4) What are the three pitches?

jaysdailydose · 01-03-2021, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonCo

That he threw about 250 innings a season as a 19, 20, and 21 year old probably didn't help.

That he was throwing 250+ innings per season at that young age was probably part of the reason he went to blow... pain-killing.

Here's a really good article from August, he's apparently doing OK after those 2019 arrests, and I believe he completed the drug rehabilitation program he was sentenced to.

https://www.newsday.com/sports/baseb...ets-1.48103435

12-30-2020, 07:16 PM	#1
Mkilkeary3007 Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 5	Young starting pitches with fully developed pitches Hey all, I was going through the amateur draft and found a young pitcher (19) with his 3 pitches almost fully developed. What does that mean for his development? Could it lead to better growth of his stuff, mov or control?

12-31-2020, 04:24 AM	#2
SirSaab Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 284	“Never draft an 18-year-old with a full beard. It means he’s fully developed and won’t grow any more.” __________________ “Lady, I’m not an athlete. I’m a professional baseball player.” - John Kruk

12-31-2020, 08:56 AM	#4
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	If you look at Dwight Gooden's career arc he was never better than his age 19 and 20 seasons. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

01-02-2021, 02:01 PM	#8
BirdWatcher Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 4,263	I can't help but feel that we haven't actually answered the OP's question here, though I do see where the Showalter quote about a full beard on an 18-year old might be a hint towards a possible answer, which is that in the situation the OP described this could be a sign that there is less room for overall improvement than if the individual pitches were less developed. It does seem like we would need more information in order to intelligently answer this. I will make a bit of an assumption though, based upon what the OP did say, that perhaps the indication is that while individual pitches are mostly developed, stuff, movement, and control ratings are not very high or developed at this stage. I guess my initial instinct is that we might be talking about a high floor, low-ish ceiling guy. I guess my primary questions would be: 1) What are the ratings for the three pitches that are almost fully developed? 2) What are the pitcher's stuff, movement, and control ratings? Current and potential. 3) What do we know about the pitcher's makeup/personality traits (particularly, I think, in this case his intelligence, adaptability, and work ethic)? 4) What are the three pitches? __________________ The Denver Brewers of the W.P. Kinsella League-- The fun starts here(1965-1971: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=289570 And continues here (1972-1976): https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=300500 On we go (1977- 1979): https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=314601 For ongoing and more random updates on the WPK:https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=325147, https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=330717

12-31-2020, 07:34 PM	#6
rink23 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 20,836	According to his bio, Doc Gooden started using cocaine in after the 1985 season, his second full season. Might explain what happened after that.

01-01-2021, 11:39 AM	#7
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 10,335	That he threw about 250 innings a season as a 19, 20, and 21 year old probably didn't help.