Christmas Wish 2020: Please Put Women's Baseball in OOTP!

[Tiger Fan]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

Thanks but no thanks...

There are thing way more important than this non-sense like real 19th century baseball (the real league progression with the real team each seasons and the two missing leagues, PL and UA) and the minor league missing years (1877 to 1913) that should have been done years ago.

While I agree with you a priority should be on the missing historical leagues from the late 19th century and missing minor leagues in the 1901-1930 or so timeline need to be added as presently it really is a half (well more like 80%) completed feature. Also the Negro Leagues likely need a rating rehaul as do many fielding ratings in historical.

However I do have to take offense with you calling what others want as nonsense. You have been around here long enough that you have to realize one of the things that sets OOTP above so many other sports sims is it’s flexibility for the user to play how they like. While I personally have no interest in adding female players to my games as I play mainly historical and historical fictional leagues - although I have to admit if the data existed to do the all American Girls League of the forties it might be fun to add to my historical replay- others do want it so I hope they eventually get it just as I hope for the historical additions you and I ask for.

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

I don't believe you

No offense but I'll take joefromchicago input on the game before yours any day of the week...



If there is no data on women baseball that would be useless to add this, see OOTP is about data and stats not feelings...


Don't bring the "you can play a fictional leage in Botswana" argument you'd waste your time, in 14 years I have never played fictional once since I'm an historical player.

[tejdog1]

As a gay man, I'd like to see storylines about players coming out and being a modern Jackie Robinson but for LGBTQ+ people.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[eldur00]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

Thanks but no thanks...

There are thing way more important than this non-sense like real 19th century baseball (the real league progression with the real team each seasons and the two missing leagues, PL and UA) and the minor league missing years (1877 to 1913) that should have been done years ago.

Ah ! The good old "I have no use of a feature personally therefore nobody else should be getting it" argument that makes everyone look so great and wonderful.
See, I have absolutely zero desire to play historical from 1877-1913. Therefore, those databases missing elements has absolutely no impact on me. I do, however, have a fictional league with 4 leagues in a pro/rel setting where I would love to add a 5th league that would start as a women only league, and see how they climb up and down against their male counterpart. THAT is something that I would love to be doing right now.
So why do you feel entitled to what YOU want, but that others who want different things are labeled as wanting "nonsense" ?

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by Tiger Fan

However I do have to take offense with you calling what others want as nonsense.

Agree, non-sense was probably a bit too far...


What I meant is that it's more important to focus on getting a 100% representation of what is real historically speaking than focusing on make believes... now I know that women played during WW2 but that league, at best, was trivial.



I'm an historical player, so I have never played one single fictional or modern game in all my years of playing OOTP.

[CD360]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

No offense but I'll take joefromchicago input on the game before yours any day of the week...



If there is no data on women baseball that would be useless to add this, see OOTP is about data and stats not feelings...


Don't bring the "you can play a fictional leage in Botswana" argument you'd waste your time, in 14 years I have never played fictional once since I'm an historical player.

Mate OOTP isn’t about data, stats or feelings, it’s about baseball. Just because there isn’t a WMLB doesn’t mean that women don’t or can’t play baseball, it just means it’s not very common. Obviously there’s less data on women in baseball which is why I think there should be a separate PCM for them, but there in a game where so many impossible things already happen, a lack of data isn’t a sufficient reason to exclude something.

Obviously it’s hard to discuss what we want added to OOTP because OOTP is basically 3 games in 1. You want the game to be more historically accurate at the turn of the 20th century, I want features like women in baseball which add more possibilities to the game that I can play around with. I would never touch the changes you’re asking for, but that doesn’t mean they’re nonsense and I’m not against the devs adding them, Imo it’s important for the good of the community to keep everyone happy.

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by eldur00

See, I have absolutely zero desire to play historical from 1877-1913. Therefore, those databases missing elements has absolutely no impact on me.

Irrelevant, one is part of real Major League Baseball history and the other isn't... Fictional is fine, but OOTP is mostly a recreation of the MLB which is why the game is fully licensed by MLB, the MLBPA and Minor League Baseball.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

Thanks but no thanks...

There are thing way more important than this non-sense like real 19th century baseball (the real league progression with the real team each seasons and the two missing leagues, PL and UA) and the minor league missing years (1877 to 1913) that should have been done years ago.

Women who play baseball are no less real

Thank you for telling us a bit about your self

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

No offense but I'll take joefromchicago input on the game before yours any day of the week...

You've already shown the type of person that you are and I'm not at all upset that you prefer joefromchicago to me

If there is no data on women baseball that would be useless to add this, see OOTP is about data and stats not feelings...


Don't bring the "you can play a fictional leage in Botswana" argument you'd waste your time, in 14 years I have never played fictional once since I'm an historical player.

Why should anyone care what type of game you play when you've already shown your disdain for how others play

And, yes, one can make a league from Botswana, as long as it only includes men, where the players progress like players from a continent with 150 years of baseball history even though there is no data to support the idea that they would.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

Agree, non-sense was probably a bit too far...


What I meant is that it's more important to focus on getting a 100% representation of what is real historically speaking than focusing on make believes... now I know that women played during WW2 but that league, at best, was trivial.



I'm an historical player, so I have never played one single fictional or modern game in all my years of playing OOTP.

We get it
You have made it abundantly clear that you think your opinions and preferences are more important than those of other users

However, they are not

[Tiger Fan]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Women who play baseball are no less real

Thank you for telling us a bit about your self

Like a number of your posts here I think you are taking comments slightly out of context. He has said he wants the game to focus on adding the missing historical leagues and has agreed he made a mistake using the word "Non-sense" I believe his point was he wants the historical professional major leagues and missing minor league years added first. In that sense those are "real" historical leagues as defined by Major and Minor League Baseball. And to him, that is what he would like to see added to the game, just as you want female players.

I agree completely that AESP_pres has no more right than you, I or anyone else to request features or enhancements to the game. Like him, I have absolutely no desire to add a league of female players to the game. Not because of any gender bias but because I like to play historical major and minor league baseball setups, whether I use historical players or fictional players. I hate using the modern name file because it does not "feel right" in a historical league setting I am using. Does that make my bias against people who have first names that did not exist in the first half of the 20th century? Of course not.

Because I prefer basing my games on that era for the same reason virtually all of my solo fictional leagues are based in North America because that is what we had historically. Was baseball being played elsewhere? Certainly. Were women playing in baseball leagues historically? Of Course. And if the AAGPL had the data to add to the minor league database who knows I might even play it but only if there was enough data to properly create player ratings. But to the best of my knowledge there is not.

So because I like playing historical and fictional based on 1901-1970 that is why I only want male players in my historical and fictional leagues. Just as I have no desire to play a modern day MLB league or play Perfect Team for that matter.

But, and here is where I completely agree with the main posts in this thread - the ones outside of all the rhetoric both pro and con on the matter- Just because I won't play the game a certain way does not mean others feel the same. Perfect Team is not for me. Modern Day MLB gaming is not for me. A league made entirely of female players based in Europe or wherever it might be is not for me. But so what. If others want it and Markus and his team can find a way to add it then that's great.

I might disagree on what his first priority should be just as you might. But that part is not our decision. It is up to Markus and the OOTP team to decide what they want, and what they are able to add to the game.

And for that reason I think you are better sticking to requesting what you want to see in the game and not attacking others for having a different viewpoint. Just as they should not be attacking what you desire from the game. I believe just ignoring someone with an opinion different than your own would more likely get you the right kind of attention from the powers that be on this board, instead of having this thread degrade itself into one belonging in the off-topic section of the board instead of General game discussions.

[treesham]

Originally Posted by MaeNekoChan

I really don't want people to post for lolz about how Curt Schilling in their 93 Phillies game came out as trans

to be fair, Schilling would have to come out as a human before he came out as trans, because basically, at this point, he's just trash.

i mean, we're talking about a dude who collects Nazi memorabilia, has a show on Breitbart, and opposed marriage equality.

that being said, as an infrequent poster who prefers to sim his own leagues far into the future, seeing how many world championships i can bring the Texas Rangers, eventually playing with all fictional players as even the guys now in A ball are long retired, I find this topic fascinating, but not nearly as fascinating as the visceral, hate-filled "women in baseball!?!?!? how dare you?!?!!?"

because, quite frankly, that's the same sentiment we heard about blacks a century ago.

I mean, it's all a fictional universe. Why not have women involved, because sooner or later, that fiction will be reality.

To me, the correlation is a simple one, and it goes back to my time in the pro wrestling business. (no, i did not wrestle, i worked behind the scenes and occasionally on camera. yes, i did get "beat up" twice by wrestlers - both times, off-script, and one that saw me get tossed about 15 feet into the air onto a giant stack of chairs that had previously buried two wrestlers.)

A little less than 40 years ago, comedian Andy Kaufman had a gimmick where he would basically wrestle women. It was a big deal, because back then, men and women didn't wrestle each other. Heck, it wasn't even until 1972 that women were allowed to wrestle in New York state. Yep, they were banned until The Fabulous Moolah bested Vicki Williams in front of 20,000 at Madison Square Garden.

30 years ago, women's wrestling began to become more prominent, but it was still a bit of a side show. 20 years ago, they moved up the card, but generally speaking, they were still seen as T&A and might come close to headlining if it was some sexist gimmick like a bra and panties match.

And then, 15 years ago, things began to change. Female wrestlers basically refused to simply be T&A, and because working as hard as their male counterparts to become good at WRESTLING.

Women like Allison Danger, Sara Del Rey, MsChif, Lacey (one of my favorite people on earth), Rain, and Nikki Roxx began showcasing legitimate skills on the indie circuit. And the indie wrestling fans bought in, and soon the larger companies had no choice to follow, to the point there Sara Del Rey was brought into the WWE to train their women to wrestle.

And then, women began to wrestle men, not as a side show, but as legitimate contenders. Sure, there were uneven matchups, but eventually women began to win some of these matches. and then a lot of these matches, culminating in 2015 when Kimber Lee won the Chikara Grand Championship, becaming the first female wrestler to hold the top title in a major non-female promotion.

And while wrestling is still mostly men vs men and women vs women, when a man and a woman do have a match, or enter into a feud, it's not viewed as some sort of specialty attraction. It's viewed as, the norm.

It is inevitable that other sports will follow. A month ago, Vanderbilt kicker Sarah Fuller made history when she became the first female football player in Power Five history.

Why shouldn't there be women baseball players? Honestly, it's one of the sports where the playing field is more level than others. You don't need to be 6'4 and 250 pounds to play baseball. you don't need to be 6'9 with the wing span of an airplane to play baseball.

Anyway, that was my long winded response saying "here, here, and why not??" I had honestly never thought about it before (hellllloooo privilege), but how anyone could be opposed to this, is beyond me.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Tiger Fan

I think you are better sticking to requesting what you want to see in the game and not attacking others for having a different viewpoint. Just as they should not be attacking what you desire from the game. I believe just ignoring someone with an opinion different than your own would more likely get you the right kind of attention from the powers that be on this board, instead of having this thread degrade itself into one belonging in the off-topic section of the board instead of General game discussions.

Interesting that this appears to be addressed towards me, and not the person who came into the thread and said that what other people wanted was "non-sense". I don't think you'll find me very often in other threads expressing my opposition to others' ideas - maybe that should change.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

Irrelevant, one is part of real Major League Baseball history and the other isn't... Fictional is fine, but OOTP is mostly a recreation of the MLB which is why the game is fully licensed by MLB, the MLBPA and Minor League Baseball.

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

If there is no data on women baseball that would be useless to add this, see OOTP is about data and stats not feelings...


Don't bring the "you can play a fictional leage in Botswana" argument you'd waste your time, in 14 years I have never played fictional once since I'm an historical player.

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

What I meant is that it's more important to focus on getting a 100% representation of what is real historically speaking than focusing on make believes...

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

9. Prevent the integration in 1947

As a what if scenario to see how different would be the ML without the black players contribution and how a fictional Negro League would have evolved.

Interesting

A fictional world in which blacks weren't allowed to play with whites AESP_pres is cool with. Even went out of their way to request it.

But, a world in which women played is a line better not crossed for this "historical player". Even went out of their way to oppose it.

[Tiger Fan]

Originally Posted by Tiger Fan

I think you are better sticking to requesting what you want to see in the game and not attacking others for having a different viewpoint. Just as they should not be attacking what you desire from the game. I believe just ignoring someone with an opinion different than your own would more likely get you the right kind of attention from the powers that be on this board, instead of having this thread degrade itself into one belonging in the off-topic section of the board instead of General game discussions.

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Interesting that this appears to be addressed towards me, and not the person who came into the thread and said that what other people wanted was "non-sense". I don't think you'll find me very often in other threads expressing my opposition to others' ideas - maybe that should change.

I was replying to you so I phrased it as such but as you can see in the portion I highlighted I was also suggesting others who as you say came into this thread to attack should do the same.

I was calling you out on what I felt is an attempt to provoke further conflict rather than simply just clearly state your requests for enhancements to the game, just as I called out ASEP for his uncalled for Nonsense comment.

[BaseballNewsNow]

Bear with me here. The two sides in this argument are that a) adding women into a league should be an option. This should include correct pronouns and gender identities. Some people in this artery meant are also arguing for representing gender binary people and the LGBTQ+ community in the game. B) the OOTP team should focus on more pressing issues than adding women, which would only please a small percentage of the OOTP player base. Most people in this side aren’t against the option of female players, but just think that money and time should be spent elsewhere. Some people in this side think that there shouldn’t be an option to add women at all.

To address some of the people on the side against adding women players, I would be saying “f*** you with your sexist bulls***”. But the more that I read in this thread, it became apparent to me that (you claim at least) you think that other things should be added before we add women players. But why should the OOTP devs have to meet your demands before going on to others? Historical players make up a small percent of the OOTP player base, and even fewer actually play 1871-1900. You could make the same argument against me, that very few would actually use the female players option, but those two argument offset.

For the sake of argument, let’s assume that the amount of people who use fictional leagues and historical leagues are the same. Now, what percent of people use 1871-1900 versus the number of people who would use female players in their historical league?

That proves that the interest in female players is higher than the interest in improvements to the 1871-1900 database. And as of right now, that’s playable. Female players are not (and don’t give me changing names and faceted. Pronouns will always remain male).

And for female players, you could also add the option to modern leagues, which are disproportionately used more than historical and fictional leagues combined. That ups the interest in female players even more.

It’s not impossible for the devs to add female players. I’d accept it if it was added in OOTP 23.

One question that I ask you if you reply to this post in favor of the opposition is where in the totem pole do you think that adding female players is? Is it higher or lower than flashy new features? Please don’t quote this post without answering this question.

If you don’t think that the OOTP devs should add it because males are superior to females, then just know that there would always be an option to disable this. And if you don’t think that there should be an option at all, not because you think that other features are more important, then I beg you to get some help.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by Tiger Fan

I was replying to you so I phrased it as such but as you can see in the portion I highlighted I was also suggesting others who as you say came into this thread to attack should do the same.

I was calling you out on what I felt is an attempt to provoke further conflict rather than simply just clearly state your requests for enhancements to the game, just as I called out ASEP for his uncalled for Nonsense comment.

I had this "CBeisbol" blocked for a long time, waste of time replying to him imo.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Tiger Fan

I was calling you out on what I felt is an attempt to provoke further conflict rather than simply just clearly state your requests for enhancements to the game, just as I called out ASEP for his uncalled for Nonsense comment.

You call it "provoke further conflict", I call it "pointing at frauds"

Because when someone who wants a feature that allows users to alter the history of blacks being allowed to play with whites calls having female players in the game "non-sense", and then changes it to

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

it's more important to focus on getting a 100% representation of what is real historically speaking than focusing on make believes...

that's s fraud.

And, again, I'm pleased as punch that this type of individual doesn't like me.

Originally Posted by BusterKing

I had this "CBeisbol" blocked for a long time, waste of time replying to him imo.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

You call it "provoke further conflict", I call it "pointing at frauds"

Because when someone who wants a feature that allows users to alter the history of blacks being allowed to play with whites calls having female players in the game "non-sense", and then changes it to
that's s fraud.

And, again, I'm pleased as punch that this type of individual doesn't like me.

Grow up.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

Grow up.

Again

Couldn't be happier that people of this ilk don't like me