Jack Leiter or Kumar Rocket?

SirSaab · 12-17-2020, 12:38 PM

My first amateur draft is fast approaching, my scouts have been busy, and I have the second pick. Assuming both are available (the mock has Leto going #1), should I go Leiter or Rocker? I’m leaning Rocker right now, as he seems more likely to be able to step into my rotation in a shorter time (and we need the help lol).

SirSaab · 12-17-2020, 03:26 PM

I’m very surprised nobody has an opinion on this LOL

Clavette · 12-17-2020, 04:02 PM

I drafted Leto in my pirates sim. Leiter has been the best of all 3 but both pitchers are top 10-12 in the league. Ended up trading for him and trading away Leto

Currently in spring training 2028

SirSaab · 12-17-2020, 07:05 PM

I got duped by the mock draft! Kumar left the board #1, so the decision was made for me

iverbure · 12-18-2020, 02:20 AM

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/2021/draft/

List of the top 100 prospects according to mlb.com had to look up this Leto guy you were talking about because he’s not listed here in the top 100.

ShawnSoup · 12-18-2020, 02:45 AM

Greetings from the future. Here on June 8th 2026, I can tell you Jack has not made it to the show yet. Meanwhile, Kumar is a solid producer and #2 starter for the KC Royals who have the 2nd best record in the league. If this helps at all.

ShawnSoup · 12-18-2020, 02:49 AM

Just for draft tips, in my league Andrew Painter, Keyshawn Askew, Austin Elliott, and Kobe Robinson all rate out higher than those two here in 2026.

SirSaab · 12-18-2020, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShawnSoup

Just for draft tips, in my league Andrew Painter, Keyshawn Askew, Austin Elliott, and Kobe Robinson all rate out higher than those two here in 2026.

I was hoping that somehow Painter would make it to round 2, but no such luck. A 1st/2nd round of Leiter/Painter would have been ok by me.

SirSaab · 12-18-2020, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iverbure

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/2021/draft/

List of the top 100 prospects according to mlb.com had to look up this Leto guy you were talking about because he’s not listed here in the top 100.

Likely because the chances of him signing rather than going to college are pretty low at this point. He’s legit.

Lukas Berger · 12-18-2020, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iverbure

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/2021/draft/

List of the top 100 prospects according to mlb.com had to look up this Leto guy you were talking about because he’s not listed here in the top 100.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSaab

Likely because the chances of him signing rather than going to college are pretty low at this point. He’s legit.

He's actually fallen way, way off in all the prospect lists lately, not due to potential signing issues but due to other guys passing him. He'll be rated quite a bit lower in OOTP22.

It's not an unusual thing for guys rated near the top of the class as HS underclassmen. They often max out physically earlier than other players and thus stop improving in comparison with other guys later in their HS careers and thus their star quickly dims in their senior years.

Happened to guys like Blaze Jordan, Jeremy Martinez, Thomas Szapucki, Chris Rivera and countless others in the past.

SirSaab · 12-18-2020, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

He's actually fallen way, way off in all the prospect lists lately, not due to potential signing issues but due to other guys passing him. He'll be rated quite a bit lower in OOTP22.

It's not an unusual thing for guys rated near the top of the class as HS underclassmen. They often max out physically earlier than other players and thus stop improving in comparison with other guys later in their HS careers and thus their star quickly dims in their senior years.

Happened to guys like Blaze Jordan, Jeremy Martinez, Thomas Szapucki, Chris Rivera and countless others in the past.

Oh man, oh man, oh man! Smacked down by Lukas himself! I’m truly a member of the community now!!!

I’m sure all will be forgiven when he puts that over-developed man-child body to use at LSU haha

iverbure · 12-18-2020, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirSaab

Likely because the chances of him signing rather than going to college are pretty low at this point. He’s legit.

That’s not how prospect lists work. Mock drafts yes. Prospect lists dont care about how tough a player is to sign.

Art Deco · 12-18-2020, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShawnSoup

Greetings from the future. Here on June 8th 2026, I can tell you Jack has not made it to the show yet. Meanwhile, Kumar is a solid producer and #2 starter for the KC Royals who have the 2nd best record in the league. If this helps at all.

In my Rays save which is now in 2028, Rocker has been a reliable starter for Detroit for several years. Leiter was drafted by San Francisco at 1-1 in 2022, didn't sign, and was picked 1-2 by Kansas City in 2023. I traded Ronaldo Hernandez and Ian Lewis to get him from KC in 2024, and he probably would have been up in 2026 if I didn't already have a loaded rotation that year. He finally came up in mid-2027, and he's had great BB/K ratios but ERAs in the low-to-mid 4s since he's been a bit homer-prone.

The real pitching stud from the 2021 draft turned out to be a guy I took in the 4th round (who IRL just joined the Vandy team with Rocker and Leiter). That would be Christian Little, who developed into this Nolan Ryan/Sandy Koufax clone:

His only drawback is his 50 stamina, which means he usually only pitches 5-6 innings a game since all those Ks run up the pitch count.

ShawnSoup · 12-19-2020, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Deco

In
The real pitching stud from the 2021 draft turned out to be a guy I took in the 4th round (who IRL just joined the Vandy team with Rocker and Leiter). That would be Christian Little, who developed into this Nolan Ryan/Sandy Koufax clone:

Oh cool it's nice to see other guys flourishing in different saves in this multiverse.

tejdog1 · 12-27-2020, 07:38 PM

I just love 4th/5th rounders blossoming like that. Makes it feel way more real.
Ala Jeff McNeil or Seth Lugo.

MaeNekoChan · 12-28-2020, 03:29 PM

OMG I love this topic because I've had this exact same question. In my last playthrough I drafted Leiter because I saw him as a sure big league stud due to having 4 plus plus pitches and plus control (plus I already had traded for Wander Franco at SS so Leto was not a MUST-have at that point). Leto though has consistently developed into a stud in every dynasty I've played and puts up anywhere from Lindor to Trout-esque annual war production a SS. He becomes a .300 hitter with good-to-elite walk rates and anywhere from 10-30+ homer power; all of this coupled with Andrelton Simmons level defense in every playthrough I've seen. Rocker is a little more hit or miss due to his control having average projections, but more often than not he puts up at least a couple all-star seasons and usually has a cy young campaign or two, but usually ages poorly and becomes fragile by age 30. In my experiences anyway. I traded for all of them while they were prospects in my current dynasty and here are their stat pages for you to enjoy ^_^

Here Leto is a straight combination of Derek Jeter and Ozzie Smith and is headed for the inner circle of Cooperstown shortstops

The other two are likely headed for the hall of very good unless being part of my record-setting Giants dynasty is enough to push them over the edge

So I guess I'd say go Leto as SS or 2B (but don't expect him to 2-way even if he has great starter or reliever stuff) but feel free to go Leiter or Rocker if pitching is a huge priority in the short-term. I'd only give out long contracts to Leto, I usually have to quickly ship off Leiter and Rocker after extensions the second they start declining in any way, esp. before 30

---Mae

SirSaab · 12-29-2020, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaeNekoChan

OMG I love this topic because I've had this exact same question. In my last playthrough I drafted Leiter because I saw him as a sure big league stud due to having 4 plus plus pitches and plus control (plus I already had traded for Wander Franco at SS so Leto was not a MUST-have at that point). Leto though has consistently developed into a stud in every dynasty I've played and puts up anywhere from Lindor to Trout-esque annual war production a SS. He becomes a .300 hitter with good-to-elite walk rates and anywhere from 10-30+ homer power; all of this coupled with Andrelton Simmons level defense in every playthrough I've seen. Rocker is a little more hit or miss due to his control having average projections, but more often than not he puts up at least a couple all-star seasons and usually has a cy young campaign or two, but usually ages poorly and becomes fragile by age 30. In my experiences anyway. I traded for all of them while they were prospects in my current dynasty and here are their stat pages for you to enjoy ^_^

Here Leto is a straight combination of Derek Jeter and Ozzie Smith and is headed for the inner circle of Cooperstown shortstops

The other two are likely headed for the hall of very good unless being part of my record-setting Giants dynasty is enough to push them over the edge

So I guess I'd say go Leto as SS or 2B (but don't expect him to 2-way even if he has great starter or reliever stuff) but feel free to go Leiter or Rocker if pitching is a huge priority in the short-term. I'd only give out long contracts to Leto, I usually have to quickly ship off Leiter and Rocker after extensions the second they start declining in any way, esp. before 30

---Mae

In my current save, Leto did not sign, and went to college instead. I’ve heard that “Leto post-college” sometimes ends up being a big bust. I’ll try to remember to keep you posted on that. Interestingly, the team that drafted Rocker actually just offered him to me straight up for Leiter the following season (I declined).

Clavette · 12-29-2020, 07:18 AM

I drafted Leto in my pirates sim and he turned out to basically be a 4th IF for me.

Started a new league last night and traded up to 1 to get Lieter. Here's hoping it works out better for me this time

Art Deco · 12-29-2020, 03:53 PM

In my Rays save, Leto ended up concentrating on pitching and finally made the show in 2028 as a middle reliever with the Orioles (who acquired him after he was drafted by the Cubs), where he was nothing special and had control issues.

Ace1234NY · 12-29-2020, 08:56 PM

I also find this discussion interesting because this is the same thing I was looking at for my first draft with my expansion franchise in 2021, owning the #2 pick

I had zeroed in on Leiter after inspecting the draft pool. He seemed to be the closest to big league ready, and we needed the pitching help. He also seemed to be the least likely to bust with a solid floor.

Rocker went #1 so that made my decision for me. I'm only in June 2022, but so far Leto looks like he may be the best of the class as he's already the #3 ranked prospect. Rocker is #6 and Leiter #7. If Leto reaches his full potential, I may be sorry to have passed on him. But from the OSA and my scout reports, I still think I'd rather have Leiter than Rocker. Rocker obviously has ace potential, but I think his control could be a potential issue. Leiter's a little more well-rounded and I think he's basically got a floor of solid mid-rotation starter with an ace ceiling. Movement is a possible weakness, though thankfully I play in a pitcher-friendly park that cuts down on homers. I've had success with high stuff, low movement pitchers like Kevin Gausman and Vince Velazquez so far.

12-17-2020, 07:05 PM	#4
SirSaab Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 283	I got duped by the mock draft! Kumar left the board #1, so the decision was made for me __________________ “Lady, I’m not an athlete. I’m a professional baseball player.” - John Kruk

12-27-2020, 07:38 PM	#15
tejdog1 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 1,654	I just love 4th/5th rounders blossoming like that. Makes it feel way more real. Ala Jeff McNeil or Seth Lugo. __________________ It's amazing How you make your face just like a wall How you take your heart and turn it off How I turn my head and lose it all And it's unnerving How just one move puts me by myself There you go just trusting someone else Now I know I put us both through hell ~Matchbox 20, "Leave" Everyone knows it's spelled "TRAID", not trade

12-17-2020, 12:38 PM	#1
SirSaab Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 283	Jack Leiter or Kumar Rocker? My first amateur draft is fast approaching, my scouts have been busy, and I have the second pick. Assuming both are available (the mock has Leto going #1), should I go Leiter or Rocker? I’m leaning Rocker right now, as he seems more likely to be able to step into my rotation in a shorter time (and we need the help lol). __________________ “Lady, I’m not an athlete. I’m a professional baseball player.” - John Kruk Last edited by SirSaab; 12-29-2020 at 12:04 AM. Reason: Rocket? Lol

12-17-2020, 03:26 PM	#2
SirSaab Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 283	I’m very surprised nobody has an opinion on this LOL __________________ “Lady, I’m not an athlete. I’m a professional baseball player.” - John Kruk

12-17-2020, 04:02 PM	#3
Clavette Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Connecticut Posts: 371	I drafted Leto in my pirates sim. Leiter has been the best of all 3 but both pitchers are top 10-12 in the league. Ended up trading for him and trading away Leto Currently in spring training 2028

12-18-2020, 02:20 AM	#5
iverbure Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 71	https://www.mlb.com/prospects/2021/draft/ List of the top 100 prospects according to mlb.com had to look up this Leto guy you were talking about because he’s not listed here in the top 100.

12-18-2020, 02:45 AM	#6
ShawnSoup Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 123	Greetings from the future. Here on June 8th 2026, I can tell you Jack has not made it to the show yet. Meanwhile, Kumar is a solid producer and #2 starter for the KC Royals who have the 2nd best record in the league. If this helps at all.

12-18-2020, 02:49 AM	#7
ShawnSoup Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 123	Just for draft tips, in my league Andrew Painter, Keyshawn Askew, Austin Elliott, and Kobe Robinson all rate out higher than those two here in 2026.

12-28-2020, 03:29 PM	#16
MaeNekoChan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 66	OMG I love this topic because I've had this exact same question. In my last playthrough I drafted Leiter because I saw him as a sure big league stud due to having 4 plus plus pitches and plus control (plus I already had traded for Wander Franco at SS so Leto was not a MUST-have at that point). Leto though has consistently developed into a stud in every dynasty I've played and puts up anywhere from Lindor to Trout-esque annual war production a SS. He becomes a .300 hitter with good-to-elite walk rates and anywhere from 10-30+ homer power; all of this coupled with Andrelton Simmons level defense in every playthrough I've seen. Rocker is a little more hit or miss due to his control having average projections, but more often than not he puts up at least a couple all-star seasons and usually has a cy young campaign or two, but usually ages poorly and becomes fragile by age 30. In my experiences anyway. I traded for all of them while they were prospects in my current dynasty and here are their stat pages for you to enjoy ^_^ Here Leto is a straight combination of Derek Jeter and Ozzie Smith and is headed for the inner circle of Cooperstown shortstops The other two are likely headed for the hall of very good unless being part of my record-setting Giants dynasty is enough to push them over the edge So I guess I'd say go Leto as SS or 2B (but don't expect him to 2-way even if he has great starter or reliever stuff) but feel free to go Leiter or Rocker if pitching is a huge priority in the short-term. I'd only give out long contracts to Leto, I usually have to quickly ship off Leiter and Rocker after extensions the second they start declining in any way, esp. before 30 ---Mae

12-29-2020, 07:18 AM	#18
Clavette Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Connecticut Posts: 371	I drafted Leto in my pirates sim and he turned out to basically be a 4th IF for me. Started a new league last night and traded up to 1 to get Lieter. Here's hoping it works out better for me this time

12-29-2020, 03:53 PM	#19
Art Deco Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 7,841	In my Rays save, Leto ended up concentrating on pitching and finally made the show in 2028 as a middle reliever with the Orioles (who acquired him after he was drafted by the Cubs), where he was nothing special and had control issues.

12-29-2020, 08:56 PM	#20
Ace1234NY Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 47	I also find this discussion interesting because this is the same thing I was looking at for my first draft with my expansion franchise in 2021, owning the #2 pick I had zeroed in on Leiter after inspecting the draft pool. He seemed to be the closest to big league ready, and we needed the pitching help. He also seemed to be the least likely to bust with a solid floor. Rocker went #1 so that made my decision for me. I'm only in June 2022, but so far Leto looks like he may be the best of the class as he's already the #3 ranked prospect. Rocker is #6 and Leiter #7. If Leto reaches his full potential, I may be sorry to have passed on him. But from the OSA and my scout reports, I still think I'd rather have Leiter than Rocker. Rocker obviously has ace potential, but I think his control could be a potential issue. Leiter's a little more well-rounded and I think he's basically got a floor of solid mid-rotation starter with an ace ceiling. Movement is a possible weakness, though thankfully I play in a pitcher-friendly park that cuts down on homers. I've had success with high stuff, low movement pitchers like Kevin Gausman and Vince Velazquez so far.