AI Player Fatigue substitution

almightytdawg · 12-17-2020, 07:35 AM

I have been having an issue with a diamond tourney roster that is having a fatigue-based substitution issue. Basically, my catcher never gets subbed out despite clear rules and an available alternative.

The roster's main catcher is 95 Ewing and the backup (util 1) is 93 O'Rourke. O'Rourke is the team's primary 1B. Backup 1B is 99 Anson, who is also the team's primary 3B. There is a backup 3B - 45 Robinson. There are no util 2s for these positions, though O'Rourke is set as util2 for LF I've never seen him used there.

Original strategy settings have Ewing to benched when fatigue hits 65%. But he never gets benched - 4 game series, 5-game series, 10-games straight, doesn't matter.

So I tried adding into the lineup screens for O'Rourke to sub in every 3rd game (in both L/R lineups) rather than "If starter tired." Same result. Ewing never gets subbed out.

The only way to get Ewing subbed out in this roster is to go into player Roster Strategy Settings and manually use the "Bench Player for X Days" box. Ewing will be benched when using this feature. But of course catcher fatigue being what it is, if you don't catch it every couple of rounds, it takes 2-4 days to get off 0% fatigue.

I'm just not why sure the third works but the first two do not. There may also be some need to recalibrate "negative fatigue" so that it doesn't take so long for catchers to get back up to 100%.

Matt Arnold · 12-17-2020, 01:03 PM

I believe by default, the searching through the depth chart only looks 2 deep to find replacements (ie. in the above case, it can move O'Rourke to C and have someone else come in at 1B), but doesn't support by default the next level of move (it gets complicated the deeper you try to look to make sure you don't start running in circles).

When you force bench the player, though, then there's a different logic to more aggressively fill the spot (especially C being a crucial position), so that probably explains why that scenario is working, with other pieces potentially coming in afterwards to make sure the lineup looks right.

It might be worth it to set up your depth chart differently. For example, in the above case, you could go with something like this:
C: Ewing / O'Rourke (when tired)
1B: Anson / O'Rourke (when tired)
3B: Robinson / Anson (every 2nd game)

You may need to play a little with the substitution pattern of the subs to get the right balance, and can probably also throw O'Rourke as a backup at 3B if you don't want Robinson getting quite as many games in, but that should help the AI navigate the setup a little better.

almightytdawg · 12-17-2020, 02:46 PM

Thanks Matt, I understand. Most effective way in that setup is running O'Rourke out of 3B and as backup for both C and 1B. Can't afford to pay for three diamonds in cap and run out your 45 OVR 3B on your first game (and every X games thereafter) benching your diamond on full rest. But it does mean running a primary defender rated in the 30s at 3B.

As a potential feature enhancement, any chance that (1) a search might look one more deep, at least as long as there is no circular logic involved?; and/or (2) limit the total "negative fatigue" a player could get when replaced; and/or (3) Apply the more aggressive "manual bench" logic when a character reaches some extreme level of fatigue? I get that at two levels deep you can create loops, but if there's a three-position, one-way chain, that's at least conceptually readable.

Matt Arnold · 12-17-2020, 03:08 PM

Yeah, we can certainly try having the logic dig a little deeper for next year.

12-17-2020, 07:35 AM	#1
almightytdawg Bat Boy Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 7	AI Player Fatigue substitution I have been having an issue with a diamond tourney roster that is having a fatigue-based substitution issue. Basically, my catcher never gets subbed out despite clear rules and an available alternative. The roster's main catcher is 95 Ewing and the backup (util 1) is 93 O'Rourke. O'Rourke is the team's primary 1B. Backup 1B is 99 Anson, who is also the team's primary 3B. There is a backup 3B - 45 Robinson. There are no util 2s for these positions, though O'Rourke is set as util2 for LF I've never seen him used there. Original strategy settings have Ewing to benched when fatigue hits 65%. But he never gets benched - 4 game series, 5-game series, 10-games straight, doesn't matter. So I tried adding into the lineup screens for O'Rourke to sub in every 3rd game (in both L/R lineups) rather than "If starter tired." Same result. Ewing never gets subbed out. The only way to get Ewing subbed out in this roster is to go into player Roster Strategy Settings and manually use the "Bench Player for X Days" box. Ewing will be benched when using this feature. But of course catcher fatigue being what it is, if you don't catch it every couple of rounds, it takes 2-4 days to get off 0% fatigue. I'm just not why sure the third works but the first two do not. There may also be some need to recalibrate "negative fatigue" so that it doesn't take so long for catchers to get back up to 100%. Last edited by almightytdawg; 12-17-2020 at 07:37 AM.

12-17-2020, 02:46 PM	#3
almightytdawg Bat Boy Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 7	Thanks Matt, I understand. Most effective way in that setup is running O'Rourke out of 3B and as backup for both C and 1B. Can't afford to pay for three diamonds in cap and run out your 45 OVR 3B on your first game (and every X games thereafter) benching your diamond on full rest. But it does mean running a primary defender rated in the 30s at 3B. As a potential feature enhancement, any chance that (1) a search might look one more deep, at least as long as there is no circular logic involved?; and/or (2) limit the total "negative fatigue" a player could get when replaced; and/or (3) Apply the more aggressive "manual bench" logic when a character reaches some extreme level of fatigue? I get that at two levels deep you can create loops, but if there's a three-position, one-way chain, that's at least conceptually readable. Last edited by almightytdawg; 12-17-2020 at 02:48 PM.

12-17-2020, 01:03 PM	#2
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,805	I believe by default, the searching through the depth chart only looks 2 deep to find replacements (ie. in the above case, it can move O'Rourke to C and have someone else come in at 1B), but doesn't support by default the next level of move (it gets complicated the deeper you try to look to make sure you don't start running in circles). When you force bench the player, though, then there's a different logic to more aggressively fill the spot (especially C being a crucial position), so that probably explains why that scenario is working, with other pieces potentially coming in afterwards to make sure the lineup looks right. It might be worth it to set up your depth chart differently. For example, in the above case, you could go with something like this: C: Ewing / O'Rourke (when tired) 1B: Anson / O'Rourke (when tired) 3B: Robinson / Anson (every 2nd game) You may need to play a little with the substitution pattern of the subs to get the right balance, and can probably also throw O'Rourke as a backup at 3B if you don't want Robinson getting quite as many games in, but that should help the AI navigate the setup a little better.

12-17-2020, 03:08 PM	#4
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,805	Yeah, we can certainly try having the logic dig a little deeper for next year.