When will this setting be fixed?

[Neezer]

I have this setting on all of my teams. It never works. If someone uses a RHP as opening pitcher against me and replaces them after less than 2 innings with a Left reliver, the game uses my vsRHP lineup, when it should be using the lineup for the "likely follower".

When is this going to get fixed?

[dboeyr12007]

Originally Posted by Neezer

I have this setting on all of my teams. It never works. If someone uses a RHP as opening pitcher against me and replaces them after less than 2 innings with a Left reliver, the game uses my vsRHP lineup, when it should be using the lineup for the "likely follower".

When is this going to get fixed?
Attachment 742652

People bypass that function by setting a low pitch count instead of designating them as an opener. This forces you to start the RHP lineup and then gives the other side the platoon edge the rest of the way.

[Neezer]

Yes. But a starter with a low pitch count or that only goes 1.0-2.0 innings and is pulled without even giving up a hit, is an opener. So something is broken and not working relative to the AI selecting and using a lineup for the likely follower, and not the starter, as the setting is designed for.

[dkgo]

Yes they are functionally an opener but people cheat the system so the game doesnt recognize it as one. Been a problem for three years now but they dont seem to care.

[Neezer]

Why would they not care? Or is it the fix is too difficult to implement? Just get rid of pitch counts. Or, have the pitch count cell only accessible if the pitcher is assigned the opener role.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Neezer

Why would they not care? Or is it the fix is too difficult to implement? Just get rid of pitch counts. Or, have the pitch count cell only accessible if the pitcher is assigned the opener role.

But pitch counts are totally legitimate.

If this is a rare thing, you'll probably just have to deal with it

If it's happening frequently, then you'll need to adjust your lineups to counter their strategy.



EDIT
Adding on to this

Using different lineups vs left and right handed pitchers is an offensive strategy

Using openers and followers (and relievers) is a defensive strategy to counteract the offensive strategy

Since that's true, there's no reason to ban openers and followers. Might as well ban left and right handed lineups.

As for setting a low pitch count, two things
1) it doesn't allow the pitching team as much control over who relieves and how. It's basically setting up a bullpen game.
2) removing the ability to set a low pitch count doubly penalizes the defensive team. First, it allows the offensive team to set their lineup with no ability to counter. Second, the defensive team is already under a penalty. If the offensive team recognizes that it's a likely follower, then they can set up their lineup accordingly. But the pitching team can counter that offensive strategy.

Suppose I have a left-handed and right-handed pitcher available
I start the right-handed pitcher trying to force my opponents left-handed batters into the game.

If I do, great! I bring in my left-handed follower like I wanted.

But, if my opponent anticipates the follower, and puts in right-handed hitters to face my lefty follower, I have no option to stick with the right-handed opener as a regular starter.


The obvious problem is that since the games aren't being managed in real time. So, one way or the other, one team is going to have to declare and the other team will get a chance to respond. There's no reason the game should be set up so the pitching team has to declare and the hitting team gets to respond. It's just as legitimate that the hitting team has to declare and the pitching team can respond

[Neezer]

Youre missing the point. The game has settings for openers and followers, so Im not saying their shouldnt be openers and followers.

The game also has a setting to have the AI use a batting lineup "based on likely follower". This is the element that isnt working and needs to fixed to work as designed.

I dont care if people use openers or followers or not, I just want the AI to pick the right lineup as the setting allows.

[dkgo]

The game also gives fake-followers the bullpen "stuff" boost.

It really drains the fun when you are fighting against abusing game mechanic limitations instead of an honest use of baseball strategy.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Neezer

Youre missing the point. The game has settings for openers and followers, so Im not saying their shouldnt be openers and followers.

The game also has a setting to have the AI use a batting lineup "based on likely follower". This is the element that isnt working and needs to fixed to work as designed.

I dont care if people use openers or followers or not, I just want the AI to pick the right lineup as the setting allows.

I don't think I am

The opener/follower is a defensive strategy
Setting your lineup is an offensive strategy to combat the opener/follower strategy,

So, what is the counter strategy to setting the lineup based on likely follower?

In real life the counter is to either use a different follower, or let the opener pitch longer based in the opponent's lineup. But these options aren't available to the user in OOTP.

No matter what, because it's not played in real time, one team isn't going to be able to counter the other team's strategy,

So, no, it's not fair for the offensive team the way it is now.

But, to not allow the pitching team to do something to counter the offense's strategy (set lineup for likely follower), isn't fair to the pitching team.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by dkgo

The game also gives fake-followers the bullpen "stuff" boost.

But it doesn't give them the follower stamina boost, right?
So, it's a trade off

It really drains the fun when you are fighting against abusing game mechanic limitations instead of an honest use of baseball strategy.

Its an honest use of OOTP strategy

No matter what there is going to be limitations when asking the AI to counter a strategy

[Neezer]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

I don't think I am

The opener/follower is a defensive strategy
Setting your lineup is an offensive strategy to combat the opener/follower strategy,

So, what is the counter strategy to setting the lineup based on likely follower?

In real life the counter is to either use a different follower, or let the opener pitch longer based in the opponent's lineup. But these options aren't available to the user in OOTP.

No matter what, because it's not played in real time, one team isn't going to be able to counter the other team's strategy,

So, no, it's not fair for the offensive team the way it is now.

But, to not allow the pitching team to do something to counter the offense's strategy (set lineup for likely follower), isn't fair to the pitching team.

There is a setting in the game that doesnt work as designed. You understand that right? Did you read the OP and see the pic? The AI should pick the lineup based on "likely follower" "if facing an opener", just as it says in plain english.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Neezer

There is a setting in the game that doesnt work as designed. You understand that right? Did you read the OP and see the pic? The AI should pick the lineup based on "likely follower" "if facing an opener", just as it says in plain english.

If it's not working against openers/followers, then, yes, it should be fixed


But, based on the next few posts, that's not the problem

Originally Posted by dboeyr12007

People bypass that function by setting a low pitch count instead of designating them as an opener. This forces you to start the RHP lineup and then gives the other side the platoon edge the rest of the way.

Originally Posted by Neezer

Yes. But a starter with a low pitch count or that only goes 1.0-2.0 innings and is pulled without even giving up a hit, is an opener. So something is broken and not working relative to the AI selecting and using a lineup for the likely follower, and not the starter, as the setting is designed for.

Originally Posted by dkgo

Yes they are functionally an opener but people cheat the system so the game doesnt recognize it as one. Been a problem for three years now but they dont seem to care.

Originally Posted by Neezer

Why would they not care? Or is it the fix is too difficult to implement? Just get rid of pitch counts. Or, have the pitch count cell only accessible if the pitcher is assigned the opener role.

[Neezer]

An opener is a pitcher that starts the game and is pulled after just 1-2 innings...so the setting isnt seeing that and isnt picking the right lineup

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Neezer

An opener is a pitcher that starts the game and is pulled after just 1-2 innings...so the setting isnt seeing that and isnt picking the right lineup

Do you think IRL teams always know when they are facing an opener?

I submit that they do not

Wade Miley was set to start NLCS Game 5 against the Dodgers in LA, a crucial game in the series with both teams hoping to take a permanent lead from this 2-2 tie. Miley indeed started the game, and then almost immediately left it after walking the leadoff batter.

As everyone sat there wondering what in high heaven was going on, it quickly became clear that the Brewers had pulled the ol’ fake starter trick on the Dodgers in order to get them to start their right-handed platoon against a lefty pitcher, only to then switch to righty Brandon Woodruff and hope to come out on top in the matchup game.

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2018/10...y-fake-starter


Maybe instead of checking if it's the opponents pitcher is listed as an opener (the opposing team shouldn't have access to that info anyway), it should check if the opposing team's starter has stamina < X. Let the user set X. If the starter has a stamina of 25, it's probably an opener. 40? it's less obvious.

This way, teams could adjust for obvious openers and likely followers

But, pitching teams could still try to out strategerize their opponents by starting a high stamina right-hander and then switching to a left-hander after an inning, or 3 hitters, or 15 pitches, or whatever.


Again, nothing is going to be perfect, because it's relying on an AI and not a creative human.

[Neezer]

I would certainly appreciate a response from the OOTP Team on this and what is going to be done about it.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Neezer

I would certainly appreciate a response from the OOTP Team on this and what is going to be done about it.

Hopefully this

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Maybe instead of checking if it's the opponents pitcher is listed as an opener (the opposing team shouldn't have access to that info anyway), it should check if the opposing team's starter has stamina < X. Let the user set X. If the starter has a stamina of 25, it's probably an opener. 40? it's less obvious.

This way, teams could adjust for obvious openers and likely followers

But, pitching teams could still try to out strategerize their opponents by starting a high stamina right-hander and then switching to a left-hander after an inning, or 3 hitters, or 15 pitches, or whatever.

At it keeps strategy on both sides

Perhaps a third lineup.
vs R
vs L
Blended - when this situation arises and you're not sure who you batters will be facing (which is a totally legitimate pitching strategy)