**When** To Promote Players From International Complex?

[yankeefan1024]

I usually let the AI auto promote guys from the International Complex when it thinks they're ready, and I've had a number of 5* guys never amount to anything even in the lowest levels of my minors so I'm gonna try promoting them myself. My questions:

1. Is any age too early if the guy is ready? For example, I have a 17 year old pitcher with 5* potential, who's half a star now, with high work ethic, and his stuff/movement/control is 25/30/20, and has 3 pitches with current ratings of 45/30/20 ... Should I let this guy sit in the IC another year? Also in general do you have a rule for when the earliest you'd promote a guy is?
2. When you do promote him, what level should he go to? Automatically the lowest level minor league team, or is there a scenario where you might put him in like high rookie ball, or even short season A ball?
3. What's the fastest / youngest guy you've seen go from the IC through your system to the MLB?

I know there's a lot of questions here - thanks for the help!

[BirdWatcher]

I don't personally have any hard and firm rules (about much of anything really ) but I would suggest that one way to make such decisions is to see how the player's ratings compare to your lowest levels of the minors. My guess is a 17-year old who is currently a half star player with 5 star potential- assuming you mean relative to your major league level- almost surely will have ratings relative to the lowest levels of your minor league system that indicate that he is ready to compete now. My guess is that this is a guy I would at least promote to my rookie league level club or possibly a rung above, depending upon how his ratings match up to that level.

I usually bring players up from my international complex as they approach their 18th birthday, but I rarely have players down there who have the kind of potential you are describing for this pitcher.
(Sorry- not answering each specific question but just wanted to give a more general tip about comparing ratings relative to different levels of your system, in case you weren't already doing that with these players.)

[CBeisbol]

As I said in the other thread

It is exactly like promoting between any other two levels. Except there are no statistics

Change the ratings so they are relative to the level you are considering promoting them to. Imagine, it helps you to think of it that way, that you are considering promoting them to the majors. Look at their ratings. Do you think they are good enough? If so, promote. If not, don't promote.

Overgeneralized: If their ratings relative to the new level are 50 or higher - promote. 40 or lower - don't promote. 40-50 is going to take more evaluation and more consideration

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

I don't personally have any hard and firm rules (about much of anything really )

Just wanted to highlight this as being an excellent quality in a person.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Just wanted to highlight this as being an excellent quality in a person.

Thanks- I appreciate the kind words.
I do sometimes feel like a poet in a roomful of engineers around here. (Which is probably not even that far off the truth. )

While I appreciate all of the analytical minds and approaches in this community, and while that aspect of baseball appeals to me as well (would I play OOTP if it didn't at least a little?), I do tend to be a bit more intuitive and, well, let's say organic, in my approach to OOTP and life.

[yankeefan1024]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

I don't personally have any hard and firm rules (about much of anything really ) but I would suggest that one way to make such decisions is to see how the player's ratings compare to your lowest levels of the minors. My guess is a 17-year old who is currently a half star player with 5 star potential- assuming you mean relative to your major league level- almost surely will have ratings relative to the lowest levels of your minor league system that indicate that he is ready to compete now. My guess is that this is a guy I would at least promote to my rookie league level club or possibly a rung above, depending upon how his ratings match up to that level.

I usually bring players up from my international complex as they approach their 18th birthday, but I rarely have players down there who have the kind of potential you are describing for this pitcher.

Yea man thank you this is SUPER helpful. Here are 3 screenshots of my guy:https://imgur.com/KdcEKkP


https://imgur.com/ICkT5Ke (his ratings relative to MLB)
https://imgur.com/40FqAgj (his ratings relative to GCL)
https://imgur.com/a/a7rVHz7 (his ratings relative to Dominican League)


I would love for you to share your insights on if you feel this guy is ready & why or why not so that I could learn more of what goes into making this determination for this case & cases moving forward! Thanks!

[yankeefan1024]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

As I said in the other thread

It is exactly like promoting between any other two levels. Except there are no statistics

Change the ratings so they are relative to the level you are considering promoting them to. Imagine, it helps you to think of it that way, that you are considering promoting them to the majors. Look at their ratings. Do you think they are good enough? If so, promote. If not, don't promote.

Overgeneralized: If their ratings relative to the new level are 50 or higher - promote. 40 or lower - don't promote. 40-50 is going to take more evaluation and more consideration

thanks this is super helpful!

[JerseyPirate]

Here is how I handle my international complex players based on potential stars...

3-5 stars - promote in June to my DSL team after turning 17
2-2.5 stars - promote in June to my DSL team after turning 18
0.5-1.5 starts - promote in June to my DSL team after turning 19 unless I have a need at the position when they are 18

My 3-5 star guys play 1 season at DSL and then go to either my A- but usually my A team.

[yankeefan1024]

Originally Posted by JerseyPirate

Here is how I handle my international complex players based on potential stars...

3-5 stars - promote in June to my DSL team after turning 17
2-2.5 stars - promote in June to my DSL team after turning 18
0.5-1.5 starts - promote in June to my DSL team after turning 19 unless I have a need at the position when they are 18

My 3-5 star guys play 1 season at DSL and then go to either my A- but usually my A team.

thanks for this. with pitchers specifically are you not concerned with anything but the potential star rating? with the guy I am speaking on above (screenshots attached in previous comment) he has only 2 pitches above a 20, so my hesitation is if I promote him too early will that make a difference on his potential to develop that 3rd pitch?

[yankeefan1024]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Overgeneralized: If their ratings relative to the new level are 50 or higher - promote. 40 or lower - don't promote. 40-50 is going to take more evaluation and more consideration

Is that for the overall rating, or are you saying their relative ratings for each of the Control / Movement / Stuff, and each of their pitches, should hit at least that threshold?

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by yankeefan1024

Yea man thank you this is SUPER helpful. Here are 3 screenshots of my guy:https://imgur.com/KdcEKkP


https://imgur.com/ICkT5Ke (his ratings relative to MLB)
https://imgur.com/40FqAgj (his ratings relative to GCL)
https://imgur.com/a/a7rVHz7 (his ratings relative to Dominican League)


I would love for you to share your insights on if you feel this guy is ready & why or why not so that I could learn more of what goes into making this determination for this case & cases moving forward! Thanks!

One thing that I would also factor in is his personality traits. With this young man and his high adaptability and work ethic I would have no problem promoting him to either of these leagues even though some of his individual ratings might indicate that he has quite a bit of growth needed still and might potentially struggle at times.
I see no value in keeping him in down at your international complex any longer- he should develop better while at one of your low minor league clubs and I think he's ready.

[yankeefan1024]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

One thing that I would also factor in is his personality traits. With this young man and his high adaptability and work ethic I would have no problem promoting him to either of these leagues even though some of his individual ratings might indicate that he has quite a bit of growth needed still and might potentially struggle at times.
I see no value in keeping him in down at your international complex any longer- he should develop better while at one of your low minor league clubs and I think he's ready.

Thanks for the insight. I really appreciate it. A concern I had was him not having a third pitch at this point in time. That's something that will potentially develop even if promoted, versus letting him stay down? A high investment IFA with 5* and only 17, I would love for him to become a starter obviously and want to maximize his ability to curate that third pitch

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by yankeefan1024

Thanks for the insight. I really appreciate it. A concern I had was him not having a third pitch at this point in time. That's something that will potentially develop even if promoted, versus letting him stay down? A high investment IFA with 5* and only 17, I would love for him to become a starter obviously and want to maximize his ability to curate that third pitch

Well, unfortunately the chances of a pitcher developing a changeup with ratings like this is pretty close to nil. He is likely going to be a reliever but could be quite a good one eventually, and with his stamina he can give you valuable multi-inning outings. He is young so maybe he develops that changeup a bit closer to his potential rating but that is not common in OOTP. As far as a third pitch his best chance is to get a talent change randomness boost along the way, which could always happen and he has many years for this to occur before he hits the big leagues.
But my understanding has always been that he will get more development value playing in the minors than staying in the international complex so long as he isn't completely over-matched and therefore demoralized by playing at a level that is beyond his current ability. I think he'll be just fine in your low minors.

[yankeefan1024]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

Well, unfortunately the chances of a pitcher developing a changeup with ratings like this is pretty close to nil. He is likely going to be a reliever but could be quite a good one eventually, and with his stamina he can give you valuable multi-inning outings. He is young so maybe he develops that changeup a bit closer to his potential rating but that is not common in OOTP. As far as a third pitch his best chance is to get a talent change randomness boost along the way, which could always happen and he has many years for this to occur before he hits the big leagues.
But my understanding has always been that he will get more development value playing in the minors than staying in the international complex so long as he isn't completely over-matched and therefore demoralized by playing at a level that is beyond his current ability. I think he'll be just fine in your low minors.

Thanks bro I really appreciate the insight. Very helpful in clearing things up!

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by yankeefan1024

Is that for the overall rating, or are you saying their relative ratings for each of the Control / Movement / Stuff, and each of their pitches, should hit at least that threshold?

Not overall
I only use overall very generally

But each rating doesn't need to be, say, 50 either.

They just have to be good enough to not get destroyed.

If you've got a relief pitcher that is, say, 60 stuff, 35 movement and 50 control (for the rookie level), they will probably succeed - so bring them up.

[yankeefan1024]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Not overall
I only use overall very generally

But each rating doesn't need to be, say, 50 either.

They just have to be good enough to not get destroyed.

If you've got a relief pitcher that is, say, 60 stuff, 35 movement and 50 control (for the rookie level), they will probably succeed - so bring them up.

thanks bro

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

One thing that I would also factor in is his personality traits. With this young man and his high adaptability and work ethic I would have no problem promoting him to either of these leagues even though some of his individual ratings might indicate that he has quite a bit of growth needed still and might potentially struggle at times.
I see no value in keeping him in down at your international complex any longer- he should develop better while at one of your low minor league clubs and I think he's ready.

I mostly agree with this

This player is right on the edge for me. 35 stuff and control isn't great, so I'd probably wait to bring them up. Maybe wait and bring them up a bit later in the year if it changes

You can also think about your coaching. If you have better coaches, more reason to bring them up. Worse coaches, maybe wait until has more ready. Also, is it a good defensive team? This guy is going to have a lot of balls in play and base runners. A good defense will help mitigate that so he's not getting too beat up.

The personality also matters. We can't see it directly, but there's a rating for "handles failure". If he has a low handle failure rating, staying in INTL instead of getting hit a bit in Rookie might be better. But, we don't know. So, with other positive personality attrubutes I'd be more willing to make the move.




Edit:
One thing I do with almost all my rookie level pitchers is limit innings to 3-4 by putting a pitch limit of 45-60.

With this pitcher, because he's less ready for the level, I'd use him for fewer innings until you can see how he's performing. If he's getting hit, keep him at 3 innings and/or use him as a multi-inning reliever. If he's succeeding, extend him to 4 innings.

[yankeefan1024]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

I mostly agree with this

This player is right on the edge for me. 35 stuff and control isn't great, but I'd probably wait to bring them up. Maybe wait and bring them up a bit later.

You can also think about your coaching. If you have better coaches, more reason to bring them up. Worse coaches, maybe wait until has more ready. Also, is it a good defensive team? This guy is going to have a lot of balls in play and base runners. A good defense will help mitigate that so he's not getting too beat up.

The personality also matters. We can't see it directly, but there's a rating for "handles failure". If he has a low handle failure rating, staying in INTL instead of getting hit a bit in Rookie might be better. But, we don't know. So, with other positive personality attrubutes I'd be more willing to make the move.




Edit:
One thing I do with almost all my rookie level pitchers is limit innings to 3-4 by putting a pitch limit of 45-60.

With this pitcher, because he's less ready for the level, I'd use him for fewer innings until you can see how he's performing. If he's getting hit, keep him at 3 innings and/or use him as a multi-inning reliever. If he's succeeding, extend him to 4 innings.

nice, I like this. thank you!

[Timofmars]

I think 1 year after a player is added to your international complex, they will start accumulating professional service time whether they are promoted or not. So for me, that is good reason to promote them at that time, as I would expect their development would be better with your coaches. I am not sure that they can really be overmatched at the rookie league level and have their development negatively affect. Though if that were the case, then sure, maybe it would be better to keep them in the IC.

The reason I will keep guys in the IC anyway is generally because they show no potential, and I would rather have better players (current ability) playing in my minors to help the teams win more, improving morale of the whole team.

[ThePretender]

Promote them when they begin the IC so they develop best. So as early as 16 is fine. You gain nothing by leaving them in the IC except risking them not developing. If they are worthwhile prospects have them in R immediately.

[yankeefan1024]

Originally Posted by ThePretender

Promote them when they begin the IC so they develop best. So as early as 16 is fine. You gain nothing by leaving them in the IC except risking them not developing. If they are worthwhile prospects have them in R immediately.

thank you!