Trading for draft picks...why can't I?

GT25Ump · 03-20-2002, 06:07 AM

I can't possibly be the ONLY guy out there that wishes that we could trade for amateur draft picks in a solo league? You would think that OOTP4 would be set up so that the computer is willing to trade their draft picks for good established players....sigh....

Tom Gordon
FEBL - Siouxland Express
JOBL - Siouxland Express

chrisj · 03-20-2002, 06:19 AM

[quote]Originally posted by GT25Ump:
I can't possibly be the ONLY guy out there that wishes that we could trade for amateur draft picks in a solo league? You would think that OOTP4 would be set up so that the computer is willing to trade their draft picks for good established players....sigh....
<hr></blockquote>

You can't, because you can't actually do it in MLB either.

Peterk · 03-20-2002, 06:36 AM

Well, yes and no....

They're disguised by being trades for a "player to be named later". Same type of trade.

[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: Peterk ]

Khaos · 03-20-2002, 06:40 AM

I looked deep within and I failed to find an inkling of me wanting to trade for draft picks.

JML · 03-20-2002, 06:48 AM

[quote]Originally posted by chrisj:


You can't, because you can't actually do it in MLB either.

<hr></blockquote>

There's no salary cap in MLB, but that's in the game.

CommishJoe · 03-20-2002, 06:51 AM

It comes in handy with on-line leagues. Everyone I have run since my first (Feb 1999) has allowed the trading of draft picks. Here are a couple of reasons:

1. It gives bad teams a chance to improve quicker. Generally the team with the #1 pick gets some VERY interesting offers before the draft. What helps them more? 1 potential stud, or multiple above average prospects?

2. 2 sides are VERY close on a deal. To put it over the top, include a low round amateur pick (my current league only allows the first 3 rounds tradable).

3. Gives owners that much more control over their team.

Now, I think things should be limited. In one league, I collected 5 1st round draft picks. So, we have a rule that no team can have more than 2 1st rounders, 3 2nd rounders, and 4 3rd rounders.

Other than that, I don't see a reason why NOT to give us this ability. There isn't a salary cap in baseball either, but this game has it. Why not trading picks? Should be an easy enough option to toggle in the league setup as well.

Scott Vibert · 03-20-2002, 09:16 AM

[quote]Originally posted by CommishJoe:
It comes in handy with on-line leagues. Everyone I have run since my first (Feb 1999) has allowed the trading of draft picks. Here are a couple of reasons:

Other than that, I don't see a reason why NOT to give us this ability. There isn't a salary cap in baseball either, but this game has it. Why not trading picks? Should be an easy enough option to toggle in the league setup as well.<hr></blockquote>

First I dispute that Player to Be Named Later trades are similar to trading draft picks, generally a list of prospects who can be that player has already been agreed to when the trade is made and the decision is held off to give the team receiving the player a chance to scout the players on that list and select the one they want.

Now to the meat of my reply

Yes trading for picks is handy in online leagues... yes it would be nice to have, yes all your reasons are valid. But here is a reason why its not an easy addition to get into the game.

The first reason is how do you program the computer with the ability to judge the value of a draft pick? There is a significant difference between the value of a top 5 pick and the 30th (and final) pick of the first round. So you can't just assign a value to a first round pick. Humans will know and judge by this, so the AI would have to as well. But to make the computer able to judge this it would have to first be programmed to analyze a roster or current performance and attempt to determine where the team offering the pick; pick would be, which means that it would have to analyze the effect of the trade and make a projection. This is very hard to program.

Second you then have to program this kind of memory into the games database. Somewhere you would have to have a master list of all the picks that each team has, to be able to set up the draft (Sort of like adding mystery player entries into the database). Currently the game doesn't have to do this, it only has to look once at last years results to determine the draft order. You end up adding a whole lot of architecture just to allow for this.

Third the AI often has a problem with overloading its minor league system (especially A ball level) with players, as a result the players don't always develop properly. Giving an AI a whole bunch of extra picks, is only going to exacerbate this issue, resulting in the end with an easier game for the solo player. (Obviously not a great desire)

It then becomes simple to see the costs and time it takes to place in this one (fairly small) piece of the trade/draft module and decide that the benefits may not be worth the cost, plus MLB doesn't allow it (and likely won't allow it anytime soon) so why add it in?

I agree it would be nice to have as a toggle-able feature, but in my opinion it isn't a huge need or failure of the game to not have this, and the costs of adding it, may not justify the benefit. Currently online leagues can manage to do this alright without the feature in the game to do it automatically, so why complicate things in the AI and potentially make the game easier for solo player?

Note the opinions expressed in this thought process are purely my own and don't in anyway represent the actual reasoning why this isn't in, but these are all important things to consider.

troy · 03-20-2002, 02:14 PM

a player to be named later is never a player drafted in that years Ammy draft. Once a player is drafted, he has to remain on the draftees roster for at least one year or the next amatuer draft. Im not sure exactly what the rule is, but it is something like this.

Its to prevent teams drafting Mark Teixera and just trading him away after.

But the amatuer draft is going to change if MLB has any brains... oh wait... i guess it wont change then.

Killebrew · 03-20-2002, 02:38 PM

It would be great if trading draft picks (along with trading for cash) were set as a default option in the game only IF the game setting was on 'Internet League Mode' enabled. That would save the AI programming effort involved in determining draft pick value, where it's usually easy to cheat the AI out of draft picks via trades (at least in the EA Sports games!) while at the same time being a nice looking feature and saving online league GM's and commishes an enormous amount of work.

True, currently there are some outside workarounds for the trading of draft picks in the game, but to say the game does not need that feature is like saying it does not need to figure out the stats since you already have a calculator

. You have to manually keep a list of what team has what picks (not easy), you have to sort out arguments of what happened a year previous, and most important: you do not get the accurate trade info in the team, league and player history. I am not sure it would need to effect the games DB size either, as outputting this draft pick trade info to whatever files the game currently logs trades in would be enough (appending to team and league trade pages).

Of course, this is not as vital as any gameplay fix/feature/tweak, but I think it's a reasonable thing to see within the game in the future.

Scott Vibert · 03-20-2002, 02:52 PM

Of course the commish could create a mistery player with the name 1993 1st round draft pick (phi), then injure the player for the season and stick them on the DL of the team who got the extra pick.

I agree something down the road for internet leagues only would be much more reasonable..

good point about the Calculator Killer...

BrewedCrew · 03-20-2002, 03:52 PM

You can't trade draft picks in real baseball why should you be able to on the game? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

SoxWin · 03-20-2002, 03:56 PM

Brewed, you can't send old, big salaried guys to AAA in real life without clearing waivers. Why would you be able to do it in the game?

Sorry, it's a rhetorical question but the fact is, this is a game, not real life.

Cheers

Rich

Killebrew · 03-20-2002, 04:14 PM

IMO the reason most online leagues allow draft pick trading is simply because it add's a lot to the fun

. The non-realistic salary cap option is a fun addition too - it improves the game though even though it does not mirror MLB rules.

BrewedCrew · 03-20-2002, 05:03 PM

yes but things like clearing waivers would be way too much to put in a update.

yes i agree that trading draft picks would be cool but its probably not going to happen

JML · 03-20-2002, 05:11 PM

[quote]Originally posted by BrewedCrew:
You can't trade draft picks in real baseball why should you be able to on the game?

<hr></blockquote>

Originally posted by JML:

There's no salary cap in MLB, but that's in the game.

[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: JML ]

03-20-2002, 06:19 AM	#2
chrisj All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Edmonton, Alberta (but still wishing I was in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada) Posts: 834	[quote]Originally posted by GT25Ump: <strong>I can't possibly be the ONLY guy out there that wishes that we could trade for amateur draft picks in a solo league? You would think that OOTP4 would be set up so that the computer is willing to trade their draft picks for good established players....sigh.... </strong><hr></blockquote> You can't, because you can't actually do it in MLB either. __________________ Canadian Baseball League -- Commissioner -- Calgary GM

03-20-2002, 06:36 AM	#3
Peterk Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Montreal Posts: 220	Well, yes and no.... They're disguised by being trades for a "player to be named later". Same type of trade. [ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: Peterk ]</p>

03-20-2002, 06:40 AM	#4
Khaos Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canfield, OH Posts: 473	I looked deep within and I failed to find an inkling of me wanting to trade for draft picks. __________________ squish

03-20-2002, 06:48 AM	#5
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	[quote]Originally posted by chrisj: <strong> You can't, because you can't actually do it in MLB either. </strong><hr></blockquote> There's no salary cap in MLB, but that's in the game.

03-20-2002, 06:51 AM	#6
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	It comes in handy with on-line leagues. Everyone I have run since my first (Feb 1999) has allowed the trading of draft picks. Here are a couple of reasons: 1. It gives bad teams a chance to improve quicker. Generally the team with the #1 pick gets some VERY interesting offers before the draft. What helps them more? 1 potential stud, or multiple above average prospects? 2. 2 sides are VERY close on a deal. To put it over the top, include a low round amateur pick (my current league only allows the first 3 rounds tradable). 3. Gives owners that much more control over their team. Now, I think things should be limited. In one league, I collected 5 1st round draft picks. So, we have a rule that no team can have more than 2 1st rounders, 3 2nd rounders, and 4 3rd rounders. Other than that, I don't see a reason why NOT to give us this ability. There isn't a salary cap in baseball either, but this game has it. Why not trading picks? Should be an easy enough option to toggle in the league setup as well. __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

03-20-2002, 06:07 AM	#1
GT25Ump Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sioux City, Iowa Posts: 14	Trading for draft picks...why can't I? I can't possibly be the ONLY guy out there that wishes that we could trade for amateur draft picks in a solo league? You would think that OOTP4 would be set up so that the computer is willing to trade their draft picks for good established players....sigh.... Tom Gordon FEBL - Siouxland Express JOBL - Siouxland Express

03-20-2002, 09:16 AM	#7
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,264	[quote]Originally posted by CommishJoe: <strong>It comes in handy with on-line leagues. Everyone I have run since my first (Feb 1999) has allowed the trading of draft picks. Here are a couple of reasons: Other than that, I don't see a reason why NOT to give us this ability. There isn't a salary cap in baseball either, but this game has it. Why not trading picks? Should be an easy enough option to toggle in the league setup as well.</strong><hr></blockquote> First I dispute that Player to Be Named Later trades are similar to trading draft picks, generally a list of prospects who can be that player has already been agreed to when the trade is made and the decision is held off to give the team receiving the player a chance to scout the players on that list and select the one they want. Now to the meat of my reply Yes trading for picks is handy in online leagues... yes it would be nice to have, yes all your reasons are valid. But here is a reason why its not an easy addition to get into the game. The first reason is how do you program the computer with the ability to judge the value of a draft pick? There is a significant difference between the value of a top 5 pick and the 30th (and final) pick of the first round. So you can't just assign a value to a first round pick. Humans will know and judge by this, so the AI would have to as well. But to make the computer able to judge this it would have to first be programmed to analyze a roster or current performance and attempt to determine where the team offering the pick; pick would be, which means that it would have to analyze the effect of the trade and make a projection. This is very hard to program. Second you then have to program this kind of memory into the games database. Somewhere you would have to have a master list of all the picks that each team has, to be able to set up the draft (Sort of like adding mystery player entries into the database). Currently the game doesn't have to do this, it only has to look once at last years results to determine the draft order. You end up adding a whole lot of architecture just to allow for this. Third the AI often has a problem with overloading its minor league system (especially A ball level) with players, as a result the players don't always develop properly. Giving an AI a whole bunch of extra picks, is only going to exacerbate this issue, resulting in the end with an easier game for the solo player. (Obviously not a great desire) It then becomes simple to see the costs and time it takes to place in this one (fairly small) piece of the trade/draft module and decide that the benefits may not be worth the cost, plus MLB doesn't allow it (and likely won't allow it anytime soon) so why add it in? I agree it would be nice to have as a toggle-able feature, but in my opinion it isn't a huge need or failure of the game to not have this, and the costs of adding it, may not justify the benefit. Currently online leagues can manage to do this alright without the feature in the game to do it automatically, so why complicate things in the AI and potentially make the game easier for solo player? Note the opinions expressed in this thought process are purely my own and don't in anyway represent the actual reasoning why this isn't in, but these are all important things to consider.

03-20-2002, 02:14 PM	#8
troy Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 22	a player to be named later is never a player drafted in that years Ammy draft. Once a player is drafted, he has to remain on the draftees roster for at least one year or the next amatuer draft. Im not sure exactly what the rule is, but it is something like this. Its to prevent teams drafting Mark Teixera and just trading him away after. But the amatuer draft is going to change if MLB has any brains... oh wait... i guess it wont change then. __________________ CBL NH CDBL Florida GMC Beijing EBL Redsox

03-20-2002, 02:38 PM	#9
Killebrew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3,326	It would be great if trading draft picks (along with trading for cash) were set as a default option in the game only IF the game setting was on 'Internet League Mode' enabled. That would save the AI programming effort involved in determining draft pick value, where it's usually easy to cheat the AI out of draft picks via trades (at least in the EA Sports games!) while at the same time being a nice looking feature and saving online league GM's and commishes an enormous amount of work. True, currently there are some outside workarounds for the trading of draft picks in the game, but to say the game does not need that feature is like saying it does not need to figure out the stats since you already have a calculator . You have to manually keep a list of what team has what picks (not easy), you have to sort out arguments of what happened a year previous, and most important: you do not get the accurate trade info in the team, league and player history. I am not sure it would need to effect the games DB size either, as outputting this draft pick trade info to whatever files the game currently logs trades in would be enough (appending to team and league trade pages). Of course, this is not as vital as any gameplay fix/feature/tweak, but I think it's a reasonable thing to see within the game in the future. __________________ FOBL Capital City Metropolitans CDL Minnesota Twins

03-20-2002, 02:52 PM	#10
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,264	Of course the commish could create a mistery player with the name 1993 1st round draft pick (phi), then injure the player for the season and stick them on the DL of the team who got the extra pick. I agree something down the road for internet leagues only would be much more reasonable.. good point about the Calculator Killer...

03-20-2002, 03:52 PM	#11
BrewedCrew Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Minnesota Posts: 414	You can't trade draft picks in real baseball why should you be able to on the game? <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> __________________

03-20-2002, 03:56 PM	#12
SoxWin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Blissful ignorance Posts: 3,315	Brewed, you can't send old, big salaried guys to AAA in real life without clearing waivers. Why would you be able to do it in the game? Sorry, it's a rhetorical question but the fact is, this is a game, not real life. Cheers Rich __________________ It's called partying. When you do a lot of it, you're bound to be places where the police show up. I smoke a lot of pot and drink a lot of beer. I also graduated Suma Cum Laude. ****ing sue me. - Luis Rivera

03-20-2002, 04:14 PM	#13
Killebrew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3,326	IMO the reason most online leagues allow draft pick trading is simply because it add's a lot to the fun . The non-realistic salary cap option is a fun addition too - it improves the game though even though it does not mirror MLB rules. __________________ FOBL Capital City Metropolitans CDL Minnesota Twins

03-20-2002, 05:03 PM	#14
BrewedCrew Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Minnesota Posts: 414	yes but things like clearing waivers would be way too much to put in a update. yes i agree that trading draft picks would be cool but its probably not going to happen __________________

03-20-2002, 05:11 PM	#15
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	[quote]Originally posted by BrewedCrew: <strong>You can't trade draft picks in real baseball why should you be able to on the game? </strong><hr></blockquote> Originally posted by JML: There's no salary cap in MLB, but that's in the game. [ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: JML ]</p>