Has anyone else reached the "This is it" point?

[HRBaker]

I think the re-definition of the "Perfect" player by introducing the FOTF cards wasn't necessarily the PRIMARY reason the game lost its competitiveness. If you are going to introduce a "BEST" version of a player (FOTF), they should be VERY rare - but that's not what happened.


If you peruse the makeup of various teams as they stand today, Perfect, Diamond, Gold, and Silver Levels are saturated with FOTF cards. You have to be in Bronze to not face face FOTF teams regularly. For those FTP players (or me that only has $100. into the game), Bronze is pretty much the BEST you can do. My team(s) bounce between Bronze and Iron all the time, and the rosters are all a mix of Perfects and Diamonds. A 50/50 Perfect-Diamond team would have reached Diamond fairly easily - now it's a pipe-dream.



As it stands now, the bottom 4 levels are for those of us that can't (or won't) spend the amounts necessary to buy FOTF players... the only choice is to hope you land one in a pack.


I'm hoping next year, such cards as FOTF are rare to the point you'll be lucky to see more than one or two on a team.


From a business standpoint, do you make many of them available for the few players that will spend that kind of money - and find most of your customers spending less... or do you make the FOTF cards rare and then hope the lower players will spend more money now that they can compete in Silver and maybe Gold.


As far as the game is concerned (not profit) I think FOTF cards should be a rarity... my 2 cents.

[dboeyr12007]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

I think the re-definition of the "Perfect" player by introducing the FOTF cards wasn't necessarily the PRIMARY reason the game lost its competitiveness. If you are going to introduce a "BEST" version of a player (FOTF), they should be VERY rare - but that's not what happened.


If you peruse the makeup of various teams as they stand today, Perfect, Diamond, Gold, and Silver Levels are saturated with FOTF cards. You have to be in Bronze to not face face FOTF teams regularly. For those FTP players (or me that only has $100. into the game), Bronze is pretty much the BEST you can do. My team(s) bounce between Bronze and Iron all the time, and the rosters are all a mix of Perfects and Diamonds. A 50/50 Perfect-Diamond team would have reached Diamond fairly easily - now it's a pipe-dream.



As it stands now, the bottom 4 levels are for those of us that can't (or won't) spend the amounts necessary to buy FOTF players... the only choice is to hope you land one in a pack.


I'm hoping next year, such cards as FOTF are rare to the point you'll be lucky to see more than one or two on a team.


From a business standpoint, do you make many of them available for the few players that will spend that kind of money - and find most of your customers spending less... or do you make the FOTF cards rare and then hope the lower players will spend more money now that they can compete in Silver and maybe Gold.


As far as the game is concerned (not profit) I think FOTF cards should be a rarity... my 2 cents.

I get what you are saying, however I am FTP as well and have a pair of teams in gold. One is hovering around .500 and has two FOTF cards both from packs. The other I did spend time collecting resources so I just upgraded my pitching staff today to have 3 FOTF cards, but that team has been in gold for 8 of the last 11 weeks, and now I have a shot at Diamond. Even though I know at that point I will be crushed. So with a team that only rips packs and another that did some auction house work but almost no speculation, I can hang around in gold. So it is definitely possible.

[QuantaCondor]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

If you peruse the makeup of various teams as they stand today, Perfect, Diamond, Gold, and Silver Levels are saturated with FOTF cards. You have to be in Bronze to not face face FOTF teams regularly. For those FTP players (or me that only has $100. into the game), Bronze is pretty much the BEST you can do. My team(s) bounce between Bronze and Iron all the time, and the rosters are all a mix of Perfects and Diamonds. A 50/50 Perfect-Diamond team would have reached Diamond fairly easily - now it's a pipe-dream..

I think the main complaint a lot of whales have is similar: FOTF cards are too common. But that is VERY GOOD for the F2Pers and others who were prepared; if you really stare at the top levels of the game, aside from the very rarest toppers, it's way easier to assemble a game-best squad than it ever has been. I agree with the whales, the biggest and best cards should be more rare, but let's not conflate that with the F2P experience.

I also think "F2P" is a charged, unfair term. I'm F2P but have done my share of speculation, tourney grinding, collections chaining, and other things that require a lot of time, so I have resources that might appear whale-like. "Casual players who don't really do tourneys/collections/speculation/PP generation strats" are confined to doing no better than bronze; that does sound fair. But "F2P" alone; well, one extreme of F2P is capable of winning PL titles (as I did), and the other drops the game after a day and goes idle. You're just derailing the (potentially useful) conversation making claims like that.

EDIT: Oh, and keep in mind card rarity has nothing to do with team quality. Terrible way to gauge how good a team is.

[emilempenza]

Honestly, think I am done tbh. Just a bit boring when there are clear best cards and everyone has them. They made that mistake with making the LS rewards so good and so available, meaning up to a certain level you faced identical teams constantly, then they have made the same mistake with the FotF cards, so now you face near identical teams at the higher level. (but even worse as it's no longer just that they are much better value than the alternatives, they are also just better)

They have rendered near 99% of cards obsolete, meaning you are up against a pretty tiny pool of players each time. It just already feels dull and it's only been a couple of weeks. I know super cards probably bring in the cash, but it makes the game pretty dull. A wider variety of competitive cards would be far more interesting to actually use.

Sure they are going to release some new whale bait missions so the 1% of the 1% can pay 1 million coins have a bit of variety, but for the vast majority of players it's going to be facing the same FotF teams for the rest of the year.

[dkgo]

Originally Posted by QuantaCondor

I think the main complaint a lot of whales have is similar: FOTF cards are too common. But that is VERY GOOD for the F2Pers and others who were prepared; if you really stare at the top levels of the game, aside from the very rarest toppers, it's way easier to assemble a game-best squad than it ever has been. I agree with the whales, the biggest and best cards should be more rare, but let's not conflate that with the F2P experience.

I also think "F2P" is a charged, unfair term. I'm F2P but have done my share of speculation, tourney grinding, collections chaining, and other things that require a lot of time, so I have resources that might appear whale-like. "Casual players who don't really do tourneys/collections/speculation/PP generation strats" are confined to doing no better than bronze; that does sound fair. But "F2P" alone; well, one extreme of F2P is capable of winning PL titles (as I did), and the other drops the game after a day and goes idle. You're just derailing the (potentially useful) conversation making claims like that.

EDIT: Oh, and keep in mind card rarity has nothing to do with team quality. Terrible way to gauge how good a team is.

I know I've said this before too, framing players as "F2P" or "whale" is simply wrong. The dynamic that matters is the casual experience vs the heavily engaged experience. For some reason people think time is a less valuable resource than money but I'd usually argue the opposite.

I do think that missions are causing way too may similar teams which ruins the fun even if it makes it easier to compete at a higher level. Not only in the fact that the reward cards are so good, but they cause upward pressure on the price of other potentially playable cards at most levels.

[mcdog512]

I don't play as much anymore. I still like the game mode but will probably join Baily and Orcin next year as FTP or not investing too much.

[daves]

Originally Posted by joehart

Personally, the Face of Franchise cards have ruined the immersion of the game for our family.

We used to enjoy having a top team, some middle of the pack, and Diamond-only teams but with the gap (good vs top) getting larger, it just is not as much fun anymore.

A good diamond team was able to compete to some extend but now the Peak/FOF cards have taken over and they just don’t carry the same „this is how I remember ........player “.

In this regard, I am not sure I agree with the direction of the game and see us moving away from PT.

I would have preferred to see more cards that focus on certain years of players and skip the entire Peak/Face of Franchise cards.
Let a real historical season be the best card in the game for a player instead of what we have today.

My boys and I prefer when the gap between best cards and rest of the cards is not so big.

Thank you for the post. Well said. this is exactly how I felt when the outrageous Team of the Decade, Peak and Hall of Fame Cards came out last version,

[HRBaker]

Let me rephrase my comments... I agree FTP versus Whales isn't accurate nor fair to compare the major groups of players.


Maybe the better comparison would be "Serious" players versus "Casual" players.


Serious players are willing to expend dollars, time, or both to reach the ultimate prize, while Casual players want to experience the enjoyment of collecting cards and playing competitively. The Serious player will eventually own all or most of the best cards available (currently FOTF) while the Casual player will collect a mix of Perfects, Diamonds and Golds.


One might say it's logical then that Perfect, Diamond, Gold, and Silver levels will be dominated by Serious players, and Bronze, Iron, Stone and Rookie levels will be dominated by Casual players. And to be fair, I can't argue with that.


I still, however, think that any "top tier" level of players (currently the FOTF cards) have to be rare. The fact that the top three levels are saturated with these cards dilutes the meaning of any card OTHER THAN the FOTF card. There are simply too many of them.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by mcdog512

I don't play as much anymore. I still like the game mode but will probably join Baily and Orcin next year as FTP or not investing too much.

I decided a couple of weeks ago that it was worth investing a significant sum to complete FOTF. Maybe next year I will have more self-control.

[daves]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Maybe next year I will have more self-control.

I think you posted a similar comment last year/

[bailey]

Originally Posted by mcdog512

I don't play as much anymore. I still like the game mode but will probably join Baily and Orcin next year as FTP or not investing too much.

There are two times when $100 can go a long way.
1) First minutes on Launch Day. Buy gold packs and sell off the gold cards. Earlier this year I sold Nellie Fox for 25K and a random live gold for 5K. You have to be quick, though. 30 minutes after launch is really late to try this..

2) Post season points sale (or later sales) - Start entry pool on a Monday and buy the heavy hitters whose prices have collapsed and smash EP for 400K+ (not to mention Rookie, Stone etc...).

Having said that, I'm staying FTP for the foreseeable future.

[IanIachimoe]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

As it stands now, the bottom 4 levels are for those of us that can't (or won't) spend the amounts necessary to buy FOTF players... the only choice is to hope you land one in a pack.

I don't know man, all 3 of my teams are FTP - Soap Co. was a $20 initial buy in because I did EVERYTHING wrong when starting PT for my first time (ever) & it's no better than the others (still my favorite).

I bounce between Gold & Diamond (mostly gold) with teams built from winning tourney packs & reselling. 'Nowhere' was a pack pull only team until I decided to put a little effort into it to advance up the ladder, mainly staying away from live SE card rewards for less of the cookie cutter lineup look.

it can be done.

[HRBaker]

Originally Posted by IanIachimoe

I don't know man, all 3 of my teams are FTP - Soap Co. was a $20 initial buy in because I did EVERYTHING wrong when starting PT for my first time (ever) & it's no better than the others (still my favorite).

I bounce between Gold & Diamond (mostly gold) with teams built from winning tourney packs & reselling. 'Nowhere' was a pack pull only team until I decided to put a little effort into it to advance up the ladder, mainly staying away from live SE card rewards for less of the cookie cutter lineup look.

it can be done.

Didn't say it couldn't be done. With time and/or money it certainly can. The issue I was making is a lot of players simply want to play "casually", collecting cards but still being somewhat competitive - and thus will likely remain in the lower 4 levels. That said, my primary point was the FOTF cards - too many of them. If your going to come out with something "better-then-perfect" then they should be pretty damn rare.

[webdox]

I was able to complete all the FOTF missions late last week.

I did so my selling off most of the prizes and reinvesting in the next target mission. I haven't spent any actual $ since early July and have only ripped packs this year. I made mountains on LIVE card update Mondays. Enough to supplement the FOTF missions. I got very lucky many times on the Diamond pack rewards for missions. I would venture a guess of 75% Historic to 25% LIVE card ratio on those pulls.

All in all had a fun time completing all the missions and would do it again next year.

[IanIachimoe]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

Didn't say it couldn't be done. With time and/or money it certainly can. The issue I was making is a lot of players simply want to play "casually", collecting cards but still being somewhat competitive - and thus will likely remain in the lower 4 levels. That said, my primary point was the FOTF cards - too many of them. If your going to come out with something "better-then-perfect" then they should be pretty damn rare.

my bad. I didn't really mean it that way.


I just meant that one can easily buy FOTF players without spending a real dime, it does take some good pulls & some time reselling though. I strongly disagree that bronze is the best a FTP player can do.



it does seem the longer PT goes the harder the lower levels get by great teams being pushed down. I had, what I thought, was a really good team that couldn't get out of silver for some time.

[daves]

Originally Posted by webdox

I was able to complete all the FOTF missions late last week.

I did so my selling off most of the prizes and reinvesting in the next target mission. I haven't spent any actual $ since early July and have only ripped packs this year. I made mountains on LIVE card update Mondays. Enough to supplement the FOTF missions. I got very lucky many times on the Diamond pack rewards for missions. I would venture a guess of 75% Historic to 25% LIVE card ratio on those pulls.

All in all had a fun time completing all the missions and would do it again next year.

All FOTF missions? That must be an amazing unstoppable team?

With 30+ FOTF players, what is your final lineup and rotation?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[webdox]

Originally Posted by daves

All FOTF missions? That must be an amazing unstoppable team?

With 30+ FOTF players, what is your final lineup and rotation?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here is the team. I had to unload cards to continue with the next mission so I don't have certain pieces that I sold off.

[professor ape]

I think I may have hit the wall. I was not able to manage my team for a few days and came back to another mediocre finish in my Diamond League. I was improving my team fairly steadily with packs won in tournaments being my main income but now the players I need to make further improvements are increasingly expensive and I am going up against teams with tons of the FOTF cards. I can either continue to dump a lot of attention on the tournaments just to tread water or just let it go.

[dboeyr12007]

Originally Posted by professor ape

I think I may have hit the wall. I was not able to manage my team for a few days and came back to another mediocre finish in my Diamond League. I was improving my team fairly steadily with packs won in tournaments being my main income but now the players I need to make further improvements are increasingly expensive and I am going up against teams with tons of the FOTF cards. I can either continue to dump a lot of attention on the tournaments just to tread water or just let it go.

Maybe this is where I luck out, because my favorite part of the game is grinding the tournaments.

[ronhatch]

I lost interest a long time ago... before the FotF missions, even. I feel like the real split is not as much between free and paid, but between people that are willing to sell cards they don't need for their main team and people like me that are hard core collectors and will almost never sell cards unless they have a duplicate... even with the useless cards.

I've sold something like three non-duplicates on my main team EVER. The only perfect historical I ever pulled was a Dodger, so I was OK with getting rid of him to finance completing ALL of the live missions (I don't allow Dodgers on my team... not even when it's Koufax). I've only completed one FotF mission, and of course it was for the Angels since that's the team I root for in real life... and it was really only possible because I was looking for reasonable prices on the AH from the moment I started playing.

Edit: Oh and FWIW, as an obsessive collector, once it became clear that collecting all the cards would require pumping in insane amounts of money, I switched gears to where I'm trying to simply SEE every card. Still satisfies my collecting instincts. Can't bring myself to care how my teams are doing anymore, though. Haven't even checked to see which live cards are still on my roster and might need to be swapped out.