3B defense min

[brian_msbc]

Whats the lowest range at 3B to have a 0 ZR (which I assume means league average). I have a guy with 45 range, 50 error, 65 arm (20-80 scale). Is the 45 Range a problem?

[Matt Arnold]

Zone Rating ends up being relative to the rest of the league, so there's no "min value" to be a league average player. The player there seems fairly average for ratings, but his zone rating may vary if your league is full of guys like Arenado or Chapman vs if teams are running Vlad Jr out there.

[brian_msbc]

Gotcha... is Zone Rating at 3B affected by the Range at SS? So if I have Andrelton Simmons at SS, would a 45 range 3B have a better ZR than if I have a 60 or 55 range SS?

Like would it be safe to say you need 115 total range between 3B and SS (45 and 70, 50 and 65, 55 and 60)?

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by brian_msbc

Gotcha... is Zone Rating at 3B affected by the Range at SS? So if I have Andrelton Simmons at SS, would a 45 range 3B have a better ZR than if I have a 60 or 55 range SS?

It's hard to answer that. A higher range SS will probably handle a few plays that the 3B would have otherwise handled, so if those tended to be the hard plays for the 3B that he would have otherwise missed, then it's possible his ZR would go up with the better SS. Although not guaranteed to, for sure.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by brian_msbc

Like would it be safe to say you need 115 total range between 3B and SS (45 and 70, 50 and 65, 55 and 60)?

No
You don't need ANY "total range"

You can have two players with absolutely horrible range at 3b and SS if you want. And if they do other things well enough (hit, run the bases, avoid errors and make throws) they will be fine there and, possibly, better than two players with excellent range

[brian_msbc]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

No
You don't need ANY "total range"

You can have two players with absolutely horrible range at 3b and SS if you want. And if they do other things well enough (hit, run the bases, avoid errors and make throws) they will be fine there and, possibly, better than two players with excellent range

I know you don’t NEED it, I meant as far as having a good defense goes.

[CBeisbol]

You can have a good defense with a 3B with terrible range.

In the User Studies link in my sig, there's a link to a study on defense. That might be interesting for you

[Astros2000]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

No
You don't need ANY "total range"

You can have two players with absolutely horrible range at 3b and SS if you want. And if they do other things well enough (hit, run the bases, avoid errors and make throws) they will be fine there and, possibly, better than two players with excellent range

He’s talking defense. Hit or run bases have nothing to do with that. Come on man. Don’t be so sour

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Astros2000

He’s talking defense. Hit or run bases have nothing to do with that. Come on man. Don’t be so sour

Fair enough

I lost the fact that the OP was only looking to achieve a ZR of at least 0


So, I alter my sourness to

Ratings are skill
And ZR is a reflection of performance

There's no answer to, "what contact rating do I need for a .300 batting average". Exactly the same, there's no answer to the OP's question.

[Timofmars]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

There's no answer to, "what contact rating do I need for a .300 batting average". Exactly the same, there's no answer to the OP's question.

I think anybody playing the game knows that actual performance doesn't exactly match what ratings would predict. But the larger the sample size, the more regression to the mean there is. So there is a specific amount of contact (with a small influence from power) that would give an expected value of .300 BA. In fact, the game shows expected results in the editor.

Likewise, there should be a defensive rating that would be most likely to give a 0 ZR in an average environment. Though one of the factors is how good the other defenders at the position around the league are, so even a certain level of success would give a different result depending on the rest of the league.

I'd suggest browsing through ZR stats around the league in a player search at the end of a season to give an idea of where the break even point seems to be.

[mytreds]

I think defense is still one of the murky things in this game. I have a SS with 6/8 in all defensive ratings and yet leads the league in errors and has a -4 ZR. If the game is simulating being nervous in his first year in the bigs, then kudos to the devs. If my SS is simply a casualty of RNG and the in game calculator, oh well.

Overall ZR (called UZR in real life) is difficult because it is a stat that is created by an indivual using many other stats. Read more here at https://library.fangraphs.com/defense/uzr/.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Timofmars

I think anybody playing the game knows that actual performance doesn't exactly match what ratings would predict. But the larger the sample size, the more regression to the mean there is. So there is a specific amount of contact (with a small influence from power) that would give an expected value of .300 BA. In fact, the game shows expected results in the editor.

No. That's backwards.
The editor shows the statistics from which the ratings are derived

So, simplified, a batting average of. 300 gives X contact rating that the user can see

Then, those underlying statistics go through the sim engine to produce the in game stats which, depending on lots of things, may look nothing like the original statistics.

I'd suggest browsing through ZR stats around the league in a player search at the end of a season to give an idea of where the break even point seems to be.

This would be a good recommendation for the OP

[mytreds]

You can create current ratings based on stats you input into the editor. You can also change the ratings and see what the resulting stats will be in a neutral modern MLB environment.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by mytreds

You can create current ratings based on stats you input into the editor. You can also change the ratings and see what the resulting stats will be in a neutral modern MLB environment.

Right

And if your universe isn't a neutral modern MLB environment, the resulting stats in your game might look very very different.

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by mytreds

Overall ZR (called UZR in real life) is difficult because it is a stat that is created by an indivual using many other stats. Read more here at https://library.fangraphs.com/defense/uzr/.

I'm pretty sure OOTP is not UZR.

And a 6/6/6/6 infielder will almost certainly be a pretty poor SS...depending, again, on the rest of the league.

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

No. That's backwards.
The editor shows the statistics from which the ratings are derived

So, simplified, a batting average of. 300 gives X contact rating that the user can see

Then, those underlying statistics go through the sim engine to produce the in game stats which, depending on lots of things, may look nothing like the original statistics.

I don't think that's right, either. Pretty sure the editor shows the stats that the ratings you put it will create if one assumes the league that player plays in are "neutral" (or "default?"). If I'm correct, then the main issue would be that the league's actual "average" ratings are different from default/neutral, then the projections will be wrong.

Alternatively, it's possible that even if those "averages" are correct, the player could face actual ratings that are skewed just due to chance, hence perform differently.