Current State of the Game

[The_Niddler]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

For sure in the past, online leagues have gotten the short end of the stick developmentally more than is probably fair. It always seems like the changes that online leagues are clamoring for just fall on the part of our to do list we don't have the time to get to each year. And that's ultimately on us, in that we should probably be moving those things further up the list a bit more often. We do want to improve though.

For instance, just within the last few months, I know Matt's been compiling some specific input regarding online leagues to work though a list of their most pressing issues and complaints/needed improvements etc for OOT22. Some of those changes already made it into OOTP21 patches, especially build 71 if you check that list out. Anyway, if you and your league wants to put together a list of priories yourself, we'll certainly look it over and add it to the list we already have.

Now how much of the rest of the list will ultimately make it into OOTP22 remains to be seen (it's a big list and we're still a small team!) but we are aware of the need to do more for the online folks.

I cannot promise we'll be perfect at this or always include just what you want, but we do want to do better and certainly not to take a group of our most loyal and passionate customers for granted.

And this right here is all I can ask for as a buyer of your product. Listen to your audience and keep moving forward to try and improve your product.
Thank you again.

[Antonin]

I'm curious to know what the "state of the game" is for people who are 1) not in online leagues, 2) have solo leagues of fewer than 30 teams and 3) have never run a solo league for even 50 years, never mind 100 years.

Any memory issues? Other issues?

[ALB123]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Even things like whether you leave a specific league open for long periods of time when you're not actually playing (which can increase the chances of corruption happening to a file, depending on the other programs and processes running) can make a difference in the health of save files.

(SNIP)

What can I say here? This is a fair complaint. I know a lot of folks, including many we respect highly and have contributed to the game greatly, who are active in online leagues have made this same complaint repeatedly in the past, that we don't give enough time or attention to the needs and priorities of online leagues. And I can't truthfully say that's wrong.

For sure in the past, online leagues have gotten the short end of the stick developmentally more than is probably fair. It always seems like the changes that online leagues are clamoring for just fall on the part of our to do list we don't have the time to get to each year. And that's ultimately on us, in that we should probably be moving those things further up the list a bit more often. We do want to improve though.

I know that many of my crashes have been related to leaving my league open and running in the background for many hours and often days without a reboot of the game. I assumed that from the first time I posted about a game crash. That's definitely on me...and Microsoft!

I have only played a single historical universe that's been alive for 11 years now. So, obviously, I have absolutely no idea what challenges OOTP Online Leagues face. However, I would like to learn...if only so I can empathize with those who do play online leagues. So, would someone who is very familiar with the lack of features available/needed for Online Leagues, or the list of things that need to be fixed/changed, mind posting what some of those things are? I'm sure there are a lot of solo players, like myself, who don't understand the frustrations of those running or are a member of an Online League. If anyone from the online league world would mind sharing, I know I would appreciate learning what affects you guys the most.

Thanks!

[Lukas Berger]

Just another little update here, Matt's been working on the file and made some progress getting the size/memory usage down.

Not sure just when he's likely to finish, as it's been pretty complicated given the file size, but we are making progress!

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Just another little update here, Matt's been working on the file and made some progress getting the size/memory usage down.

Not sure just when he's likely to finish, as it's been pretty complicated given the file size, but we are making progress!

As a note on to this, if anyone else is having issues with their file getting full of "Jim Unknown" players that seem to have come out of nowhere, first off, ideally if you can let us know, and let us know when you first see them, so we can try to prevent that from happening.

Otherwise, you can clear them out by going to the player search+shortlist off the manager menu, searching for the unknowns, and then mass selecting and deleting (you may need to use secondary filters if there's too many). Once you have the players deleted, you may need to run a purge from the database menu to actually reclaim the space (may also need to save and load the game between those steps depending how close to the limits you are).

Doing all that can clear out a massive chunk of space. I can't say that every out of memory league is running into the same issues, but for that one posted to us at least, this would help a lot.

[Mike Lowe]

As a commissioner of a league started back in 2005, we've had a very positive experience overall. Our biggest issue with this year is that Google flags emails sent from the OOTP software. I forget the details now, but we can no longer send out sim emails successfully. We sim daily, so now just announce our updates on Discord.

I'm not a fan of card trading modes, but I understand and respect why they exist.

[Roggie]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

As a note on to this, if anyone else is having issues with their file getting full of "Jim Unknown" players that seem to have come out of nowhere, first off, ideally if you can let us know, and let us know when you first see them, so we can try to prevent that from happening.

Otherwise, you can clear them out by going to the player search+shortlist off the manager menu, searching for the unknowns, and then mass selecting and deleting (you may need to use secondary filters if there's too many). Once you have the players deleted, you may need to run a purge from the database menu to actually reclaim the space (may also need to save and load the game between those steps depending how close to the limits you are).

Doing all that can clear out a massive chunk of space. I can't say that every out of memory league is running into the same issues, but for that one posted to us at least, this would help a lot.

Yep. We did this yesterday with our file and it had over 200,000 Jim Unknowns. Was crazy. Had to use a secondary filter that went off of player ID. Haven't been on OOTP much since to see if the crashing is as rampant, but i see no way that this wouldn't be a large help.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah - bit of a crazy last couple days work-wise but I did want to give a shoutout to Lukas and Matt for working on this. Much appreciated!

[mytreds]

The better versions of OOTP were definitely before the advent of PT. However, baseball is changing more quickly within the past 5 years, and it must be tough as a designer and programmer to keep up with the changes to rules, formats, and stats year to year. The more complicated it becomes, the more problems will arise. I for one am glad OOTP is still able to give users a comprehensive experience of running a ball club, especially fictional leagues. As a former FM junkie, I know how a good game can go bad with devs pushing a game in the wrong direction. OOTP is still far from that, imo.

[tejdog1]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

But isn't the issue we're bringing to light really an issue for everyone? If there is a "tipping point" as Lukas stated, isn't every day you advance, etc essentially moving that file one step closer to that tipping point? And if that tipping point got moved up significantly in 21 with the addition of new features (which I feel is the case), then shouldn't the community at large be at least a little concerned what new features may come that moves it forward even more? It's the old "First they came for...." quote - we're that first line, maybe your file that you treasure is down the road, but with this tipping point situation, it's on the path.

So in a way, we're going through an issue that down the road, maybe many others run into (of course, ideally they 64-bit it - but even Lukas doesn't seem to know if that would be in 22 or when it would be).

So maybe instead of ragging on our league for being very concerned about this, folks around here could be more supportive in trying to discern the cause of this issue that could possibly strike a much larger portion of the user base. That isn't a "bug" necessarily, it's a much larger concern.

That 'tipping point' seems to be 100 year history times 30 users. Most solo leagues will never even sniff the year 2100 (the furthest I've gotten, for example, is 2046), let alone 3000, which is where stuff may perhaps begin to go sideways.

Having said that, your league is obviously extremely important to you guys, as it should be. It's a feat and should be celebrated! And if I were in your shoes, I'd want it to keep working, too. I hope they get down to the root causes of your issues and find a way to fix them.

GL

[NCBeachBum]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

What up Snowman! Been forever man (granted I still have PBRL in my sig here lol)

And TWB, too! Pretty sure I still have your e-mail addy, I'll shoot you a line later rather than hijack the thread with catch-up (and man, do I need to clean out my PMs here).

[ALB123]

What the heck is a Jim Unknown?

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by ALB123

What the heck is a Jim Unknown?

He's a ghost. He's who the game creates when it needs ghost players to fill out a roster

[The_Niddler]

In one of the leagues I am in, someone posted this:

My 2nd basemen, Wayne Woods gets a triple and then gets hurt. Less then 2 outs, 2nd inningg of the game. Pinch runner comes in. Hey, don't pick the 2 other guys that play 2B with over 80 speed. Pick the Fat DH to pinch run with 26 speed. Deep fly ball no tag. We need to get rid of the coach's. LOL.

Seriously, can that logic be looked into?

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

He's a ghost. He's who the game creates when it needs ghost players to fill out a roster

They can also be an artifact from corruption in the save files as well.

[BGDisBatman]

Hey guys,

I'm not a regular poster here by any means, but do frequent the boards here and there to stay updated on things.

Regarding the out of memory error, I was getting this very frequently, almost to where the game was unplayable. I tried just about everything recommended on these boards, but had no luck.

Turns out, the issue was from never clearing out the manager's inbox. All the extra emails I'd get from heavily scouting near the draft really slowed my game down and eventually led to the out of memory issue.

This is what worked for me. I'm not sure if it would help in the OP's scenario, but figured I'd share as no one mentioned it.