Current State of the Game

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

If the file is still too big, even after making changes, then it's not going to eliminate any issues. It may still need to be slimmed down even more.

Anyway, the next step here would be to get us a copy of the file that we can look at and go from there depending on what we find.

I uploaded a file via your instructions in your sig - TheDugout.zip

The link within that page though to submit a ticket gave me an error so I couldn't do that part.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I uploaded a file via your instructions in your sig - TheDugout.zip

The link within that page though to submit a ticket gave me an error so I couldn't do that part.

Ok, perfect, thanks!

If you want to submit a ticket as well, which is probably best all around, you can just send an email to support@ootpdevelopments.com and that will automatically open a ticket.

[Well-Beered Texan]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

As far as the actual issues mentioned, a lot of the crashing stuff described is just as likely to be system maintenance and health related issues as game issues.

Out of memory issues can often come from leagues simply getting too big for either the game or your system to handle, and in that case there's nothing we can do about this. The only short term solution is to eliminate any unnecessary data in the save to reduce the size. One long term solution we are actively working on is to make all versions of the game 64-bit in the future, which will go a long way toward eliminating any memory errors and issues.

As a member of one of the leagues that the OP manages, I just want to say - yes, it is a big league, 30 GMs in the year 2119 right now. But very clearly, if 30 people with different computers, Mac and PC, old and new, desktop and laptop, are all having memory errors in OOTP, the problem is not system health, the problem is the game.

Even in theory, it is a problem that files can be "too big." Of course this becomes easy to imagine when the file is 100 years old and there are thousands of player files, gamelogs, etc. But if you tell online leagues that they should delete history, or start over, or if you blame the leagues -- even if the solution works, that is a way of avoiding recognizing a problem with the game.

I have also had the out of memory issue less often, only 5-6 times, in an online league with only 5 seasons history and 16 teams. 5-6 times is still more than zero.

It is also frustrating to see tiny little bugs that do not really damage gameplay, but persist in every version forever. I remember starting in OOTP18 and being annoyed that when you enter the file and click "Lineups," it shows pitching stats, and you have to click "Pitching" and then go back to "Lineups" and then it shows batting stats. Four years later, that still happens.

Some others I have noticed on 21 specifically:
- Runtime error when searching for players named "Jim" (caused by Jim Unknown)
- On viewing top prospects report, if you click on a player and then go back to the report, the ranking order changes...my #2 prospect right now is also my #8 prospect
- Players in my international complex who the game thinks are free agents - when I try to control them, Runtime error.

While it is nice that there are so many new and casual gamers joining OOTP now, people who play the game more often and more intensively are always going to be better sources for QA and bug fix info than people who play the game less often. According to Steam, I have been playing OOTP21 for 1,403.7 hours. (I keep it on in the background...I have not actually played actively for 1,403.7 hours...although my girlfriend thinks so.) Online leagues are very well attuned to the pulse of the game, if the game is working, if things are broken, etc. And they are also sensitive to how the developers respond.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Well-Beered Texan

As a member of one of the leagues that the OP manages, I just want to say - yes, it is a big league, 30 GMs in the year 2119 right now. But very clearly, if 30 people with different computers, Mac and PC, old and new, desktop and laptop, are all having memory errors in OOTP, the problem is not system health, the problem is the game.

Even in theory, it is a problem that files can be "too big." Of course this becomes easy to imagine when the file is 100 years old and there are thousands of player files, gamelogs, etc. But if you tell online leagues that they should delete history, or start over, or if you blame the leagues -- even if the solution works, that is a way of avoiding recognizing a problem with the game.

You're not wrong in that obviously this is a bad thing. That being said, this is just an inherent limitation of 32-bit games. It's not a problem with the game per say, it's just a limitation of the technology being used and for sure a big part of why the goal is to move all versions of the game to 64-bit going forward.

All saves that increase in file size can eventually get too big to run, that's just how things work on a 32-bit game.

The problem isn't with OOTP21 specifically, the same has been true of every version of OOTP. It's just that your save hit this point while on OOTP21. The same thing would've eventually happened if you stayed on say, OOTP15 until now, or if the league size grew a bit slower and didn't hit critical mass until OOTP24 (if OOTP 24 was still 32-bit, which hopefully will not be the case).

For some of the other stuff you mention for example,

Originally Posted by Well-Beered Texan

Runtime error when searching for players named "Jim" (caused by Jim Unknown)

is very likely due to corruption in the game file itself, which is likely where the Jim Unknowns came from.

Again not an OOTP21 specific issue but something that can occur for many different reasons, especially in a long running league. The best short term solution here would be deleting the Jim Unknowns from the league file entirely.

Originally Posted by Well-Beered Texan

Players in my international complex who the game thinks are free agents - when I try to control them, Runtime error.'

also seems potentially corruption related. But not something that should be happening.

Originally Posted by Well-Beered Texan

On viewing top prospects report, if you click on a player and then go back to the report, the ranking order changes...my #2 prospect right now is also my #8 prospect

is a weird one, and does sound like a bug.

We can take a look at those issues when we look over the file as well, and see if there are any fixes we can come up with for them.

Originally Posted by Well-Beered Texan

While it is nice that there are so many new and casual gamers joining OOTP now, people who play the game more often and more intensively are always going to be better sources for QA and bug fix info than people who play the game less often. According to Steam, I have been playing OOTP21 for 1,403.7 hours. (I keep it on in the background...I have not actually played actively for 1,403.7 hours...although my girlfriend thinks so.) Online leagues are very well attuned to the pulse of the game, if the game is working, if things are broken, etc. And they are also sensitive to how the developers respond.

Yeah, this is absolutely true and we agree with you completely. It's a big part of why we have a large amount of online players on the beta team for instance, and as far as listening to feedback etc, while we aren't necessarily prioritizing who we hear from, we welcome feedback from all users and try to engage with it as much as possible we do certainly especially value it from long-time users.

[Lukas Berger]

Anyway, I do have to run for now but we will take a look at the league file as soon as possible and let you know what we can find.

EDIT: Just to manage expectations, I doubt we'll be able to dig really deeply into this before next week.

We'll have the support team take a quick look over the weekend if possible but if the problems/fixes are at all complicated (which I suspect is the case) it won't be till next week that we'll be able to get a dev to look into things more deeply.

[curt]

I have no problem with this version. I keep importing my fictional league every new version. The only issues I have is the 3D, but it is a work in progress and doesn't effect the gameplay. Maybe in league play there are issues, that's not my gameplay. I only had a couple crashes at the beginning but non existent now. Keep up the good work.

[lencombs]

I play FIFA and feel like they focus more on Ultimate Team than Multi-player or single player since the player packs generate income and solo mode is static profit. I'm hoping OOTP Perfect Team will bring in revenue that also improves the other modes of play over time, a rising tide lifts all boats.

They have have made steady advancements in the last few years with the 3D animation gameplay graphics which you could argue will only improve with Perfect Team revenue. Look at OOTP15 gameplay, it is a text game with just the baseball moving to where it was hit. There were also more stadium builder elements patched in this week.

Not to dismiss anyone's legitimate concerns with gameplay just pointing out there are improvements happening besides Perfect Team development.

[UltimateAverageGuy]

To all that hate the game so much I'll CashApp you $5 and you can send over that license key so you dont have to subject yourself to this trashbag of a game

[DocProthro_Dugout]

A lot of you are completely missing the point — this isn’t a single player game. It’s a long running league that has been active for 100 in-game years. Quite frankly, when you say stuff like “my single player game has been fine,” it’s not adding any value to the conversation.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by DocProthro_Dugout

A lot of you are completely missing the point — this isn’t a single player game. It’s a long running league that has been active for 100 in-game years. Quite frankly, when you say stuff like “my single player game has been fine,” it’s not adding any value to the conversation.

The title of this thread is "Current State of the Game", so it seems that your group is actually missing the point by conflating issues with your very specific huge league as being a reflection of this version of the game when in actuality the vast majority of users are not having any problems.

[Roggie]

Originally Posted by Rain King

The title of this thread is "Current State of the Game", so it seems that your group is actually missing the point by conflating issues with your very specific huge league as being a reflection of this version of the game when in actuality the vast majority of users are not having any problems.

So you're basically saying the issues larger league files have don't matter? Because it's clear as day these are issues with part of the game, yet you're saying it doesn't matter since it only effects large, long time leagues. "Current State of the Game" includes everything said in here, so to try to dismiss single player or large leagues is idiotic.

But someone coming in here and saying these issues don't exist or don't matter because they don't happen in their single player league does nothing for the conversation. Just like if someone in a large league saying 3D stuff doesn't matter because they don't use it would be absolutely useless for the conversation.

[Rain King]

Is your league the "Put Words Into People's Mouths Association"?

I didn't say any of that. Your guy explicitly said that the users who are mentioning their experience with the game are "not adding any value to the conversation" just because their leagues are different than yours.

Your issue should have gone in the Bug/Support forum or the thread title should have been more specific that it is looking for support for a specific league if you do not want others to weigh in on their experiences.

[Cide]

Originally Posted by Rain King

The title of this thread is "Current State of the Game", so it seems that your group is actually missing the point by conflating issues with your very specific huge league as being a reflection of this version of the game when in actuality the vast majority of users are not having any problems.

It's assumed that readers are capable of reading beyond the title of a thread but I guess not. You're saying that because the use case in question here doesn't match yours and the majority of players that the criticism is not valid? I don't think you're adding anything to the discussion here.

[Roggie]

Originally Posted by Cide

It's assumed that readers are capable of reading beyond the title of a thread but I guess not. You're saying that because the use case in question here doesn't match yours and the majority of players that the criticism is not valid? I don't think you're adding anything to the discussion here.

Exactly this. One thing I've learned over years on this forum is basically anything negative about the game will get people to jump at you. If they don't have the problem, it doesn't exist. It's not a good look.

[Roggie]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Is your league the "Put Words Into People's Mouths Association"?

I didn't say any of that. Your guy explicitly said that the users who are mentioning their experience with the game are "not adding any value to the conversation" just because their leagues are different than yours.

Your issue should have gone in the Bug/Support forum or the thread title should have been more specific that it is looking for support for a specific league if you do not want others to weigh in on their experiences.

Yes, we can post in the area that takes 4+ days to get responses both times we have posted something in there, or we can post a list of issues with the game here, have it responded to almost instantly, and have a discussion.

And it's hilarious that you can read our title to mean something totally different than what was meant, as Cide has said, but if I read a little bit more into your post than it says at face value, and i'm the one with the issue. Okay. Right. Makes total sense.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by Roggie

Exactly this. One thing I've learned over years on this forum is basically anything negative about the game will get people to jump at you. If they don't have the problem, it doesn't exist. It's not a good look.

No, its just veterans here are logical and would like to see data with backed up claims. The game have so many viaribles.

[Roggie]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

No, its just veterans here are logical and would like to see data with backed up claims. The game have so many viaribles.

I've seen plenty of times where people post screens/info and they still get jumped on, so...

[Rain King]

Ah, so this thread IS only about you and your league. Great, have at it.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

No, its just veterans here are logical and would like to see data with backed up claims. The game have so many viaribles.

"Veterans" Lol

[DaBears]

It does seem like the post is more a specific league issue than the state of the game. I play solo, historical and present day, and for me OOTP 21 has been by far the best version from a stability standpoint. No crashes that I remember all year, and very solid performance.

I do wonder if the game as it gets more and more advanced requires a higher-end computer than it did a few years ago. I started (I believe) with OOTP 13 and did fine, but 15-18 or so dealt with issues far more. Probably with 19, I had upgraded to a pretty sophisticated laptop and SurfacePro, and have had almost no issues since. If you look back at 13, it was so simple compared to today, but I don't know that OOTP has really ever said an increased system was needed. Not sure on that, just a thought.

For me, 21 has been a very, very good version.